NPP vs TrenA

**Neevor** · 07-15-2010, 09:49 AM

Still planning my next cycle and was interested to hear which of these people liked better and why?

I'm thinking I'd like to include one of these with Prop, Dbol , and Masterone for a heavy bulking cycle this fall.

**marcus300** · 07-15-2010, 10:11 AM

what are your stats and cycle history?

masterone wont be useful in a bulking cycle IMHO

**Nooomoto** · 07-15-2010, 10:35 AM

Why NPP vs TrenA? They don't do the same thing.

**thetruthc32** · 07-15-2010, 11:28 AM

that is a good stack for building lean muscle, but by no means you are going to get any heavy bulk from it.

**Neevor** · 07-15-2010, 11:35 AM

I'm 6'3
225lbs
8%bf
Just finished my 5th cycle this summer of Prop, Tren , Masterone

Have run Deca and Dbol twice before as well. NPP would be new.

I'm asking because I liked being able to end my cycle when I felt it was time and the quick recovery I am experiencing now with the short estered stuff.

**Neevor** · 07-15-2010, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by Nooomoto

Why NPP vs TrenA? They don't do the same thing.

Oh yeah? Lol... thats helpful

**Neevor** · 07-15-2010, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by marcus300

masterone wont be useful in a bulking cycle IMHO

I've seen you post this before Marcus. Why do you feel that way?

I guess I favor including all three types in a cycle and just couldnt come up with a better idea here. I thought about maybe starting with Anadrol (a new one on me and not really sure I'm ready for that yet. I really feel like I need to get one more really solid mass cycle down with what I have used already) and finishing with some Win (I had run Win at the end of my second Test/Deca /Dbol cycle and I liked the reduction in water weight it gave, plus I felt like I recovered in PCT more easily) just to get my DHT in but those are both just so harsh that I started leaning toward Masterone again. I liked the low sides effect it seemed to have in my last cycle as well.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts...

**Neevor** · 07-15-2010, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by Nooomoto

Why NPP vs TrenA? They don't do the same thing.

I realize I didnt answer your question here Nooomoto. NPP vs TrenA for a couple reasons.

I ran Tren recently for the first time and it was the best cycle I've run in my opinion. I didn't have any nasty sides other than night sweats and I felt great aggression in the gym. I just felt more amped and ready to go then I have before.

I've used Deca as I said but I do NOT like how long it sticks around nor was I nuts about the amount of water weight I seemed to put on. I realize this may just be something I have to accept as a side of a mass cycle. So anyway when I thought of a 19nor I could use in my next cycle my mind immidiately went to Tren but having seen a few threads on NPP recently I thought I would investigate the idea and take the next couple months to think about which would be more productive for the goals I have this winter.

I have seen people go both ways on Tren for a mass cycle and have been keeping my eyes open for the last couple weeks but it seems to be more of an advanced subject that isn't posted about as frequently. I also posted a thread a week or two ago on the subject but only had one good response.

**Nooomoto** · 07-15-2010, 12:15 PM

Right...I forgot for a minute that both are 19nor. Simple thoughts and concepts seem to leave me from time to time while on test, forgive me.

I did find this, using Google. The Deuce is a member here, and I found this post of his on another board. Maybe you could PM him for better insight as he's done this before.

My fave oil combo ever is TestP/TrenA/NPP ... Last time I ran that I did 75mgs of each ED and it was my best cycle ever

**glover** · 07-15-2010, 12:21 PM

I have run both of those cycles. I think the NPP is not as strong but the sides are significantly fewer. Still good lean gains. Best way is to try it.

**Neevor** · 07-15-2010, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by Nooomoto

Right...I forgot for a minute that both are 19nor. Simple thoughts and concepts seem to leave me from time to time while on test, forgive me.

I did find this, using Google. The Deuce is a member here, and I found this post of his on another board. Maybe you could PM him for better insight as he's done this before.

Now that is quite helpful! Thank you very much for that Nooomoto. Cheers

**dec11** · 07-15-2010, 08:50 PM

Originally Posted by thetruthc32

that is a good stack for building lean muscle, but by no means you are going to get any heavy bulk from it.

this doesnt make sense

**Vitruvian-Man** · 07-15-2010, 08:55 PM

You may want to read this...

Vitruvian's Steroid Profile of NPP (deca)

Regarding the cycle... if you're planning on a lean bulking then I would go..

Prop/NPP/D-bol

I would probably save the mast for a cutting cycle; however, if you're a big fan of the big-3 (test/19-nor/dht-derivative) then add it in...

If you can handle the tren then I see no reason not to use it for bulking. You can still gain some serious mass while on tren

so yah, it's really your call. What your comfortable doing and whatnot.

Hope that helps,

-VM

**Grid_King1** · 07-16-2010, 05:02 AM

I have run both of these compounds and actually in the same cycle on different intervals. My cycle was

Test Prop: 100mg eod W1-12
NPP: 100mg eod W1-6
Tren A: 100mg eod W6-12
T Bol: 50mg ed W1-4

I have to say that there are two main differences that I found between the NPP and Tren. The first is that Tren as we know is far superior in the strength category it just simply can't be duplicated. And the NPP definitely put more weight on me thats for sure. By the time I quit the NPP I was up to about 233lbs when I started the cycle at 215lbs. I switched midway through and by the end of my cycle I ended up at 225lbs. Those are just the things that I noticed mostly.

**Noles12** · 07-16-2010, 05:15 AM

Originally Posted by Nooomoto

Right...I forgot for a minute that both are 19nor. Simple thoughts and concepts seem to leave me from time to time while on test, forgive me.

I did find this, using Google. The Deuce is a member here, and I found this post of his on another board. Maybe you could PM him for better insight as he's done this before.

No offense but i would never take The Deuce's cycle advice. He ran many cycles and advocated running a gram of test for a first cycle (if i remember right) because he was all about go big or go home. When he posted pictures i couldnt even tell he had run AAS other than the gyno that had developed.

He may have knowledge on AAS but i personally wouldnt let him advise me on how to run a cycle

**Noles12** · 07-16-2010, 05:17 AM

Originally Posted by Grid_King1

I have run both of these compounds and actually in the same cycle on different intervals. My cycle was

Test Prop: 100mg eod W1-12
NPP: 100mg eod W1-6
Tren A: 100mg eod W6-12
T Bol: 50mg ed W1-4

I have to say that there are two main differences that I found between the NPP and Tren. The first is that Tren as we know is far superior in the strength category it just simply can't be duplicated. And the NPP definitely put more weight on me thats for sure. By the time I quit the NPP I was up to about 233lbs when I started the cycle at 215lbs. I switched midway through and by the end of my cycle I ended up at 225lbs. Those are just the things that I noticed mostly.

I dont understand how you would lose 8 pounds mid cycle simply due to stopping NPP and test prop. Were you having diet issues?

**Grid_King1** · 07-16-2010, 05:34 AM

No, literally nothing changed besides the switch from npp to tren . Training was the same, diet and cardio were the same. You would think with the gain in strength that you would just keep gaining weight as well.

**Grid_King1** · 07-16-2010, 05:37 AM

Maybe I was holding a bit of water from the t bol and and small amount from the NPP, however I wouldn't think a combined 8lbs from the two.

**LeroyB** · 07-16-2010, 08:40 AM

Originally Posted by Grid_King1

I have run both of these compounds and actually in the same cycle on different intervals. My cycle was

Test Prop: 100mg eod W1-12
NPP: 100mg eod W1-6
Tren A: 100mg eod W6-12
T Bol: 50mg ed W1-4

Not to thread jack but Grid_King what was your PCT after this cycle curious.
Thanks!

**Nooomoto** · 07-16-2010, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by Noles12

No offense but i would never take The Deuce's cycle advice. He ran many cycles and advocated running a gram of test for a first cycle (if i remember right) because he was all about go big or go home. When he posted pictures i couldnt even tell he had run AAS other than the gyno that had developed.

He may have knowledge on AAS but i personally wouldnt let him advise me on how to run a cycle

Haha...I didn't know that. I just found that he had run the cycle this guy was asking about before. I guess thats why he doesn't post much here any more?

**Noles12** · 07-16-2010, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by Nooomoto

Haha...I didn't know that. I just found that he had run the cycle this guy was asking about before. I guess thats why he doesn't post much here any more?

Im not sure if the posts he was making were here or on another board i am on but i stopped paying attention o his advice after he posted pics and every post was a multi paragraph rant with random caps

**Knockout_Power** · 07-16-2010, 10:36 AM

Currently using NPP for the first time and Im really liking the way Im coming along after 5 weeks. Check my latest pic to show gains. Tren is great, but I think NPP will be included in most of my cycles from now on.

**Neevor** · 07-16-2010, 10:38 AM

Originally Posted by Vitruvian-Man

You may want to read this...

Vitruvian's Steroid Profile of NPP (deca)

(shortened for brevity...)

-VM

Extremely useful posting VM!!

Thanks much for that. Not only was your writeup well done but the thread following was thought provoking with so many members having good questions and additions to the topic. I feel like I've learned quite a bit more for having read this.

I think, having read all that, at least this time around that I'll stick with the Tren and see how I bulk on the cycle with it since I've never used it for bulking.

Great post tho, I hope everyone reading this thread with any interest in NPP will check that out.

**Neevor** · 07-16-2010, 10:46 AM

Originally Posted by Knockout_Power

Currently using NPP for the first time and Im really liking the way Im coming along after 5 weeks. Check my latest pic to show gains. Tren is great, but I think NPP will be included in most of my cycles from now on.

So what Im hearing here is that you like the NPP more than the Tren ? Care to expand on why? Thanks!

**Knockout_Power** · 07-16-2010, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by Neevor

So what Im hearing here is that you like the NPP more than the Tren? Care to expand on why? Thanks!

This is my first run with NPP and I have ran Tren A before. I really enjoyed the Tren A as it added mass and cut me up while on a calroie deficient diet... awesome stuff... but If you are looking for a great bulking cycle, I would probably run the NPP as it produces a lot less sides but you feel great on it... this may sound contraditory to what Im saying, but here is my current cycle:

1-12 Sust 600/wk
1-9 NPP 450/wk
1-10 Tren E 450/wk

This is effectively my first true "bulking" cycle, I cycled before for different reason.

If you want to run tren to bulk, I would run Tren E in a longer cycle... tren A is great for a quick 8 weeks cutter where you can add a couple extra quality lbs while cutting.

**Grid_King1** · 07-16-2010, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by LeroyB

Not to thread jack but Grid_King what was your PCT after this cycle curious.
Thanks!

It was nolva 40/40/20/20.

**Neevor** · 07-16-2010, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by Knockout_Power

This is effectively my first true "bulking" cycle, I cycled before for different reason.

If you want to run tren to bulk, I would run Tren E in a longer cycle... tren A is great for a quick 8 weeks cutter where you can add a couple extra quality lbs while cutting.

No I don't like the water retention with longer estered stuff and I like being able to end my cycle basically the day I want to and be back to myself.

For example I ended my last cycle of tren , prop, and mast this weekend and started PCT. Monday and Tuesday I could only muster 1 performance for my girl but last night we stayed up and I hammered her out 6 times. Back to my old self in 4 days. Can't beat that.

I don't have a problem w ED injections for all the benefits of the short esters. I probably will never run a long estered compound again unless anyone can prove to me there's a reason to other than less frequent injections. Any particular reason you are recomending Tren E for a bulking cycle other than that's what everyone always assumes you should do?

Also, I've run a 14 week cycle, a couple 12s, a 10 and an 8 weeker and honestly I am also coming to find that I prefer the 8 to 10 weeks because I plateau around week 8 and the gains are not as much for the extra work I have to invest in my PCT.

PS I ran Sust for 4 weeks once in a cycle and switched to Enth cause I needed to be injecting EOD to keep my plasma levels from fluxuating all over the place. I hate that stuff. All the drawbacks of long estered stuff with increased injection requirements.

**Vitruvian-Man** · 07-16-2010, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by Neevor

Extremely useful posting VM!!

Thanks much for that. Not only was your writeup well done but the thread following was thought provoking with so many members having good questions and additions to the topic. I feel like I've learned quite a bit more for having read this.

I think, having read all that, at least this time around that I'll stick with the Tren and see how I bulk on the cycle with it since I've never used it for bulking.

Great post tho, I hope everyone reading this thread with any interest in NPP will check that out.

Thanks bro

took me a long time to write up that steroid profile. Glad you found it useful..

Good luck with the cycle

-VM

**Neevor** · 07-16-2010, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by Noles12

Im not sure if the posts he was making were here or on another board i am on but i stopped paying attention o his advice after he posted pics and every post was a multi paragraph rant with random caps

Thanks for the heads up btw Noles

**Vitruvian-Man** · 07-16-2010, 01:01 PM

Originally Posted by Noles12

Im not sure if the posts he was making were here or on another board i am on but i stopped paying attention o his advice after he posted pics and every post was a multi paragraph rant with random caps

.... x2

I liked the guy... but damn, he was a little mentally off-base...

He would talk about the craziest cycles (2-3 g/wk), with tons of HGH... and then the pics.. were... uhhh.. yeah.

-VM

**Knockout_Power** · 07-16-2010, 01:02 PM

Originally Posted by Neevor

Any particular reason you are recomending Tren E for a bulking cycle other than that's what everyone always assumes you should do?

I dont like high dosages so if Im looking to add mass I want to do it consistantly over 10-12 weeks... when I ran Tren A it was only at 350/wk.

Its my personal preference to not put on huge amounts of weight within just a few weeks cause it is very difficult on your body to adjust to having to carry, fuel and for your heart, feed blood to all that extra mass. A couple extra weeks eases the transition... but then again, Ive never put on 30-40lbs on a cycle, I never use orals to kick start....

Personal experience will tell you what works best for you... I would definately suggest trying NPP to know how your react to it. You may find it better or less effective than tren and then you can adjust future cycling

**Neevor** · 07-16-2010, 01:25 PM

Originally Posted by Knockout_Power

Its my personal preference to not put on huge amounts of weight within just a few weeks cause it is very difficult on your body to adjust to having to carry, fuel and for your heart, feed blood to all that extra mass. A couple extra weeks eases the transition... but then again, Ive never put on 30-40lbs on a cycle, I never use orals to kick start...

Most I ever added in a cycle was 25lbs (second cycle) but it was a few years ago and I didnt have a great understanding of how to train and eat during PCT and I lost about half of it after. This will be my first big mass cycle since I have really come to understand all the aspects of cycling (including PCT and gains retention).

In any case, this is an interesting point of view that I had not thought of before. I'm gonna need to think more on this. Thanks KP.