First Cycle ( Oral )

[MindOverMatter23]

I have been lifting for about 5years i am age 23 weight is 205 around 12% bf. My diet is set and so is my training,

I have been reshearcing deeply for the last 7months, i Plan to start off my first cycle as an ORAL then from there progress to injections so dont bother saying otherwise...im just looking for help maping out and dosing my cycle and any tips, thanks.!

4k calories
240g+protein
300+carbs
100+ fats

My PCT will consist of Nolvadex .

Options 1:
I am looking to run tbol for 5 or 6 weeks not sure on what dosages people use for oral cycles most use between 25-75mg ( oral ) i will also be using CycleSupport and Liver Support on cycle since orals or harder on the liver.

Options 2: Oral Anavar ( not sure on dosages or length on oral cycle )

[gallagher771]

i suggest option 3

[MindOverMatter23]

Anyone able to help?

[Big]

well when I read the title I expected another n00bie craptastic cycle idea, but those can both be decent cycles if done properly.
you're a bit young in my opinion, that being said I like tbol at around 50mg/day or var at around 80mg/day

[CMB]

Id go with var had amazing experiences with it.

What do you want to accomplish with this cycle?

[Fetch]

Otherwise.

That said, you'll regret blowing the money on an oral only cycle. What are your goals? I won't say that you can't get gains and keep them on orals, but it's nothing compared to what you will get on even test. You are approaching this backwards, you are supposed to start with injections and possibly move on to orals on your next go round'.

Edit:
If you are set on it,
I've done Dianabol at 60Mgs/day for 10 weeks, and put on/kept around 10-12 pounds.
Liver values were shit in my bloodwork.

Anavar is good at 80-100 Mgs/Day. Most people go 6-9 weeks. I usually see a cycle set up like this:
Weeks 1-12 Test E 500Mg/wk
Weeks 6-12 Anavar 80-100 Mg/s Day
Depending on diet, you can use it to bulk or cut.

[MindOverMatter23]

For tbol would it be 50mg for the full 5-6weeks or starting at 25?

50/50/50/50/50



how about var?


my goals are to gain a lean mass and strength gains

[stevey_6t9]

do u realize 100g of fats, 300g carbs and 240g protein is only 3k not 4.

[Fetch]

Var would be 80-100Mg/day ED for the full course. Eat clean and it's a good candidate for a lean bulking cycle. You may be a bit heavy on the carbs for it though, depending on your cardio.

[MindOverMatter23]

do u realize 100g of fats, 300g carbs and 240g protein is only 3k not 4.

that is the minimium that i eat daily, i usualy get in more.



How does this look so far?

5week oral tbol @ ( i cant find many people posting there dosages on a 4-6weeks cycle )
40/40/40/50/50

pct nolva @ 20/20/20/10

[CMB]

For tbol would it be 50mg for the full 5-6weeks or starting at 25?

50/50/50/50/50



how about var?


my goals are to gain a lean mass and strength gains

Var 60-80mgs for 6 weeks. var is great for lean mass too. do not go over 6 weeks as your gains will come to a halt.

Btw, if anybody tells you that you are wasting your money on an oral only cycle they are wrong. I've done tbol, var, dbol , and proviron oral only cycles. proviron was a waste. dbol wasn't worth the sides. and tbol was alright. but var was the best by a long shot. strength went up about 35% after my 6 week cycle.

[MindOverMatter23]

what did you dose your tbol at? and for how long? im looking for a cycle no longer then 6weeks pref 5weeks tho and for PCT Nolva @ 20/20/20/10 sound fine?

[Fetch]

Var 60-80mgs for 6 weeks. var is great for lean mass too. do not go over 6 weeks as your gains will come to a halt.

Btw, if anybody tells you that you are wasting your money on an oral only cycle they are wrong. I've done tbol, var, dbol, and proviron oral only cycles. proviron was a waste. dbol wasn't worth the sides. and tbol was alright. but var was the best by a long shot. strength went up about 35% after my 6 week cycle.

I'd disagree in principle, especially for a first time user. It's anecdotal, but every first timer I've seen run test or test/dbol has come out far ahead of people who run only dbol or anavar . My advice to people is always that until you know your body well enough, it is in your interest to not get fancy. As I said above, Oral only cycles are not worthless, I simply feel that first time users are almost always best off with a simple Test cycle.
I do agree though, that out of all the orals, var is probably the best suited for a stand alone cycle. I also got decent results from DBol, thought I'm sure I would haven been better with Test added to it.
To each his own, I suppose.

[back2fit85]

better do some more research, imo you should never run ANY cycle with out a test base, oral only cycle= lost time and money

[Big]

better do some more research, imo you should never run ANY cycle with out a test base, oral only cycle= lost time and money

with all due respect, I've just reviewed your cycle history and don't see where you have ever run a var or a tbol cycle. the rumors that those cycles suck run rampant, usually from people who haven't used them. I've done both and found them to be very good cycles for what they are, in fact I gained and kept 16lbs off of tbol only for 5 weeks. I prefer test, but that doesn't mean that var, tbol, or both together can't be a great cycle if constructed properly and matched to the users goals.

[Wayacrucis]

As people already stated..oral cycles arn't the way to go. I personally havn't had any oral cycles..but a buddy of mine who is a very hard gainer has gained about 11lbs 2 weeks into a D-bol cycle. I know I'm gonna get flamed for this, but this is what I would recommend. This is assuming you don't drink and u dont take anything else to hinder ur liver. I've taken D-bol at 60mg ED for a total of 8 weeks with SLIGHTLY elevated liver enzymes. The body needs more time to grow, atleast from my experience, 4-5 weeks is what, like 4-5 gym sessions? realistically how much improvements can you make per body part in 4-5 sessions? a lot? yes, enough to signifncalty grow? I don't think so. I'd run a 8 week cycle, hit up D-bol at 50mg ED for 5 weeks, and take Winny and Anavar combo at a low dose for the last 3 weeks. I'm talking about 25mg winny ED, nothing more.

[MindOverMatter23]

Thanks for the some tips, but for my 1st cycle i would like to stick to 1 compound tbol or var, to see what each will do to me running solo. So after a bit more research this is what i have come up with.

I am looking for a first Mild Cycle

Option 1 tbol@
40/40/40/50/50/50


option 2 var @
50/60/60/60/80/80

PCT Nolva @
20/20/20/10
Also around the 3rd week of Nolva i am going to add in a natural test booster



What should i change on these dosages? also which option would be best now? thanks for the help!

[MindOverMatter23]

bump

[Big]

I would suggest tbol 50/50/50/50/50

[MindOverMatter23]

ok thank you & how does my PCt look?

[Big]

might want to stay at 20 throughout, see how you feel by week 3 then make the choice. keep us posted, if diet and training are spot on I think you will be pleased with this cycle, I get great strength gains on tbol.

[MindOverMatter23]

ok thanks .

Since this is my first cycle should i start with

30/40/50/50/50/50

or just

50mg for the full 6weeks?

[Noles12]

ok thanks .

Since this is my first cycle should i start with

30/40/50/50/50/50

or just

50mg for the full 6weeks?

IMO i would just run it at 50 from the start

[dec11]

yep, 50 from from the off

[MindOverMatter23]

Ok thanks, i havnt read anything about libido while on tbol, am i going to need some supps to help with that during my cycle? ( horney goat weed & maca .. ) i need my sex life ! are those fine to take while on cycle?

[Big]

it did not affect my libido

[Ashop]

I have been lifting for about 5years i am age 23 weight is 205 around 12% bf. My diet is set and so is my training,

I have been reshearcing deeply for the last 7months, i Plan to start off my first cycle as an ORAL then from there progress to injections so dont bother saying otherwise...im just looking for help maping out and dosing my cycle and any tips, thanks.!

4k calories
240g+protein
300+carbs
100+ fats

My PCT will consist of Nolvadex .

Options 1:
I am looking to run tbol for 5 or 6 weeks not sure on what dosages people use for oral cycles most use between 25-75mg ( oral ) i will also be using CycleSupport and Liver Support on cycle since orals or harder on the liver.

Options 2: Oral Anavar ( not sure on dosages or length on oral cycle )

The only oral that I would feel comfortable suggesting running alone is ANAVAR . Most men do real well on 40-60mg daily, 10-12 wks.

[CMB]

The only oral that I would feel comfortable suggesting running alone is ANAVAR. Most men do real well on 40-60mg daily, 10-12 wks.

Yes I would also go with anavar over tbol. The sides are very mild, but the gains are not. 60mgs ED for 6 weeks. No need to taper or pyramid. And pct is easy. Nolva 20/20/20/20.

[Bertuzzi]

OP.... Big has given you great advice here... do what he has told you.

I went the same route as you and only ever did a Anavar only cycle before ever working up to pinning. That was about a year ago I ran the Var and now I am about 1 month away from an 8 week Test prop & Tbol cycle. I have no suggestion between either Anavar or Tbol as I have never done Tbol yet. There is no right answer here, go with the compound you choose and see how you respond then in the future try the other.... see which one works best for you.

Good luck with the cycle and play safe!

[Bertuzzi]

Ok thanks, i havnt read anything about libido while on tbol, am i going to need some supps to help with that during my cycle? ( horney goat weed & maca .. ) i need my sex life ! are those fine to take while on cycle?

I forgot to answer this for you.... When I was on Anavar only at 100mg/ed for 8 weeks, it shut me down hard... I had blood work done right at the end of week 8. It did not affect my sex drive and no erectile issues. I have a very very low sex drive as I have naturally low test levels so I dunno if it just didn't affect my sex drive because it is so low already or not.

Everyone will respond different.

[MindOverMatter23]

Ok thanks i have decided to go with tbol 50mg for 5-6weeks depending on how i feel and dosing nolva @ 20/20/20/20 . thanks for all the help if this cycle goes well i am going to try anavar later on this year

[Mar-Vell]

Can you make a log of it in the proper room please, i would like to see a tbol only cycle

[carbo]

GUILTY.

I've done an oral only cycle in the past.

tbol 60mg + test undec 280mg

Was happy with the results but the gains/cost ratio sucked.