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  1. #1
    topgun is offline New Member
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    protein requirement by blood test

    Can the docs measure the individual protein intake requirement of one's body by a blood test or sth? I'm curious becasue i heard about sth. like this a while ago.

  2. #2
    bigkev's Avatar
    bigkev is offline Scamming Traitor
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    i dont know bro, but the time proven method is 1 1/2 grams per pound of body weight, minimum per day.

  3. #3
    Medicine Man's Avatar
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    NO. there is no protein requirement for a persons body . however, if you want to get bigger you need to eat enough protein so that the excess can go to help protein synthesis. if you dont eat enough, the protein that is eaten will be used as energy. that is why you see many guys who work out for years but gain no weight. they dont eat right and they dont eat enough (especially protein).
    so do this - eat about 1.5g / lb of your body weight for a few months, with complex carbs after you workout, and stick to low fat "clean" foods (ie chicken, turkey, tuna, eggs) ... see how that works out... if you are gaining quickly, you can reduce your protein intake and see if you still grow. its is a guess and check game ... but to play it safe eat as much protein as you can. remember, protein from fast food, pizza, deserts, and fried foods DOESNT COUNT!
    MM

  4. #4
    lil' juicer is offline Junior Member
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    Why would a gram of protien be any different in pizza as it would chicken? I understand fried meat may have downgraded its protien as would any excessive cooking would. Why would fast food protien not count, not including the fried meat?

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    Medicine Man's Avatar
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    i always thought like you did until i took a bunch of biochemistry classes. you may not know this but your body utilizes all different proteins in different manners. fast food, fried foods, pizza for example have lots of fat and complex carbs that require digestion before the proteins. i can say that the protein in pizza isnt as good as in chicken because it is proven. your body likes to utilize proteins that are easy for it to break down, package, and send to areas that need it for work. when you have lots of carbs in your body (ie after you have eaten a pizza) you body is busy wasting energy to utilize these carbs, fats get stored, and proteins get wasted away. now if you eat eggs, or chicken and rice for example, the situation is different and you body can easily utilitze these proteins under a certain metabolitic process (which i am not going to go through).
    esentially you MAY count the protein in pizza and mcdonalds etc, but not only is protein utilization based upon the type of protein you eat but its WHEN you eat it. protein synthesis is HEAVILY controled by hormones and your hormones are basically "screwed up" (out of control insulin :glucagon ratio) when you eat something like a pizza or a desert. but that is a whole long mechanism that im sure you dont want to know. just understand that although there may be 60-70g of protein in a pizza, your hormones will affect your body in such a way that most of the protein is NEVER used to build muscle.
    now, you eat chicken a rice, or tuna salad, or turkey sandwich, egg whites... and you are in for major growth (controled insuil:glucagon ratio)
    MM

  6. #6
    TNT's Avatar
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    Cool Yes, Protein Can Be Measured in the Blood . . .

    Originally posted by topgun
    Can the docs measure the individual protein intake requirement of one's body by a blood test or sth? I'm curious becasue i heard about sth. like this a while ago.
    Yup. Next question? (But seriously, folks . . .)

    Among other things, the Comprehensive Metabolic Panel (usually just called a CMP) measures total protein. The normal range is between 6.0 and 8.3 g/dl (grams per decaliter).

    The CMP is one of the essential tests I recommend if you use AS, since it's the one that checks your kidney and liver function. The test is done on a fasting basis (that is, after you have fasted for at least 12 hours, thus most people have it done in the morning before they have had breakfast - that's because it also measures your fasting blood glucose). It also provides additional information relevant to AS users such as creatinine and calcium levels, as well as a host of other nifty readings.

    Therefore, if you want to have your protein levels checked and if you insurance covers it anyway, I would recommend that you ask your doctor for a CMP rather than just a protein test. That way, they draw the same vial of blood (just one), but you get a lot more information.

  7. #7
    topgun is offline New Member
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    After finishing the dbol and continuing again with sust and deca , i have felt thirsty for about 2-3 hours every time after i drank a protein drink. Might sound insignificant but i was thinking about if my kidneys can't process the protein thus i have to drink a significant amount of water to flush it. Yes, yes, i know water should be drank anyway, but after a protein shake i don't really feel that well.

  8. #8
    TNT's Avatar
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    Cool Get a CMP, Dude!

    Originally posted by topgun
    i was thinking about if my kidneys can't process the protein thus i have to drink a significant amount of water to flush it. Yes, yes, i know water should be drank anyway, but after a protein shake i don't really feel that well.
    Best bet, topgun: Hit the doctor's office and get a Comprehensive Metabolic Profile done (I described it earlier in this thread). Excessive protein can have an impact on the kidneys, as well as on your ability to excrete the right amount of calcium (if you're getting rid of too much, it could put you at higher risk for osteoporosis); the CMP test includes both protein and calcium levels, as well as other kidney and liver function tests.

    If you don't want to tell your doctor about your AS use, just tell him or her that you're doing a high protein diet and a lot of protein drinks. But if you're comfortable with it, be up front with your doctor about the AS - it will help paint a better picture of why the protein is making you feel the way you do.

    Chances are that there's nothing to worry about, but there's also nothing as good as being sure there's nothing to worry about. And if there is, now is the time to correct it.

    Really, bro - do it soon. And don't be concerned; I'll be holding your hand (for support) through cyberspace.

  9. #9
    topgun is offline New Member
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    Tnt thanks bro. I'll do that. My doc is cool about these issues. He mentioned that he would recommend to take the tests at least once every 4 weeks when on cycle. However, i haven't done it yet. I was wondering how often you vets go to take the liver and kidney values when on, or do you just take them if you feel ill...?

  10. #10
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    Cool Sounds like a cool doc . . .

    Originally posted by topgun
    Tnt thanks bro. I'll do that. My doc is cool about these issues. He mentioned that he would recommend to take the tests at least once every 4 weeks when on cycle. However, i haven't done it yet. I was wondering how often you vets go to take the liver and kidney values when on, or do you just take them if you feel ill...?
    His recommendation sounds about right, especially if you do occasional cycles. I would get a test once before you start (to establish a baseline), hen every 4 weeks while on and once about 4 weeks after you end a cycle. In addition to the CMP, make sure you include a PSA (prostate specific antigen) before and at the end of the cycle if you're doing any kind of testosterone .

    BTW, ask your doctor for a copy of your lab results each time you get tested. Most lab sheets will tell you both your own readings, plus the normal range for each particular test. You may find it interesting to see the differences before, during, and after your cycle. Don't worry if some tests go out of normal range, since that's what AS do; your doctor will tell you if they're going too far out of range, or which of the tests do matter if they go out of range.

    You may not have to get lab work as often if you do additional cycles, but the schedule is still good if you change anything in the next cycle. My own take is that as long as your doctor backs you up and your insurance covers it, you can never be tested too often. Again, chances are that if you know what you're doing, you will have no negative effects, but it's always good to know that everything is up to par.

    The answer to your specific question is: test before, during, and after a cycle - not just if you're not feeling well. AS do have an impact on some readings, although they will not affect everyone in the same way.

    Let me give you an example . . . You may have a 1% chance that your prostate will become enlarged (indicated by a significantly higher PSA), but if you happen to be the 1% it happens to, the incidence level to you is 100%. The time to catch any potential problems is before they go too far to be corrected. In other words, having lab work done should be preventive, not corrective. A normal PSA is anything below 4.0. My usual PSA is 0.2. If I'm on a cycle and my PSA were to go to, say, 0.8, I wouldn't be concerned even though there would be an increase; if it suddenly jumped to 6.0, I'd be very concerned. The issue is not that you have an increase in any particular test, as long as it's a reasonable increase. And you will not find a significant increase in most tests, except those that are directly impacted by a particular AS (like your total testosterone level if you're doing, say, 500 mg. of cyp a week - then you can expect your levels to go through the roof).

    FWIW, since test happens to be my favorite AS, I get a total testosterone done every three months, and every six months I get the total testosterone plus the whole ball of wax - CMP, lipid panel, hematocrit, hemoglobin, and PSA. (Like you, topgun, I'm lucky enough to have a hip doctor whose clinical competence I trust.) No big whoop; I just bop over to a local lab, get stuck for a blood sample, and don't even have to see the doctor - he mails me a copy of the lab results so I can monitor them myself. And once a year, I get a full physical exam, with an EKG and even more lab work thrown in. Why? Because my insurance pays for them, and I like to get my money's worth. (Hell, I hang around enough senior citizens that I can't wait until I turn 50 so I can get my first colonoscopy. Not that I'll get my jollies from from a freakin' tube being stuck up my butt, but at least I'll be getting even more for my health insurance premiums.)

    (Another BTW: Since some forum members are diabetic . . . For those with diabetes, I also recommend an HbA1C - Hemoglobin A1C, which shows glucose levels over a period of months - because some AS can have an impact on glucose. Most members who are diabetic are probably doing this already, but if not, you should inquire about it. Also, if you're diabetic and using AS you should be seeing an endocrinologist, not a general practitioner. Those who are not diabetic don't have to worry about the HbA1C, because a fasting glucose reading is part of the Comprehensive Metabolic Panel, and if that's too high your doctor will likely suggest an HbA1C to follow up.)

  11. #11
    topgun is offline New Member
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    Good info, but

    You may not have to get lab work as often if you do additional cycles

    Tnt, Shouldn't it be just the opposite. More cycles you do more tests should be taken?

  12. #12
    TNT's Avatar
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    Cool Not necessarily . . .

    Originally posted by topgun
    Tnt, Shouldn't it be just the opposite. More cycles you do more tests should be taken?
    Not necessarily. I'm not talking about the general need for tests, but for their frequency. Like I said, I do mine every three to six months, but your doctor recommended them every four weeks.

    Once you have started doing AS, you'll have a basic indication of how each drug will affect you. That pattern is not likely to change significantly, although the specific variety of drugs you choose for each cycle may - and then it is important to have more labs done.

    Doing, say, test cyp will likely affect you the same way a year down the road as it will the first time you do it. But if you add a new drug to the mix, change your combination, or change your quantities, it pays to test more frequently.

    You should also consider the lenghth of your cycles. Are you doing a short cycle or one that will last several months? Or doing one or more drugs on a long-term basis (keeping in mind that the longer you do some drugs, the more the concentration of that drug in your system will change).

    My recommendation is to test as often as your doctor will write up a lab slip and as often as your insurance will pay for it. Think of it the way you would do a workout log - an ongoing record of how your bod is reacting to the AS.

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