Possible Anavar Cycle - Few Questions

**TKO Performance** · 07-21-2010, 07:50 PM

Since I know it will be asked I'll get it out of the way right now, I'm 32, 5'11" tall, and weigh in at 245 lbs. I don't know my BF%. I have a 38" waist. I would consider myself in decent cardio shape (I run 2-3 miles a couple times a week and do plyometrics and kenpo). Before this recent episode, more momentarily, I hit all time high benchpress marks for myself at 300x4 reps, and 320x2 reps both at the top of a pyramid. My set bench was 245-255 for 4 sets of 10 reps. I stopped doing heavy squats some time ago. My legs don't need to be any bigger (my proportions are good now), and the exertion was making cadio harder and me less agile. Before stopping I could easily get 350-375x4 reps at the top of a pyramid.

I've always been strong since I hit puberty. I've been weight training off and on since age 14. I wish I knew then what I know now. I have been 100% natural all my life. I do take some creatine, glutamine, taurine, and argenine. I take a full vitamin regimen (12 pills a day). My diet is pretty good. I do not eat fast food. I shoot for 1 gm/lb. of protein a day. I try to hold fat as low as possible, especially saturated fat. I vary my carb intake to keep the body guessing, usually 250-400 gms/day. I try to get a little more in me the days I do cardio.

This year I started taking NO Shotgun, which seemed to help boost strength. I hit peaks in strength at 32 that I've never had before. Unfortunately it seemed to come at a dear price. I developed tendonitis in my right elbow, which now seems to be 95% resolved after 5 months. Recently I have developed it in my thumb (right over the end of the radius). I've been dealing with it for about a month now. I had suspended lifting for that month, but started back this week (lighter weights and only 2 sets each exercise plus a warmup). I am treating with ultrasound and ice, as well as ibuprofen. If it's anything like the elbow healing will be slow. Too slow for my liking.

To that end I'm considering running a cycle of Anavar . I've head that it has a positive impact on collagen synthesis, which is key to repairing damaged tendons. It also seems very safe compared to others that have this affect like Deca . I'm hoping that by running it for 8 weeks I can resolve this tendonitis and keep it from recurring. I plan to avoid anything that places the affected tendon under stress, so as not to cause further damage while inflamation and therefore pain is reduced.

The cycle I saw recommended was 40-50mg Anavar a day for weeks 1-8, 5-8mg of Tribulus a day for weeks 1-12, 2-4mg of Avena Sativa a day for weeks 1-12, and 50mg of Clomid a day for weeks 9-11. This should allow the Anavar to do its job and effectively mitigate any side effects in the short or long term. Is this accurate? I couldn't find any info on Tribulus or Avena Sativa, are these drugs or natural supplements?

I'm not looking for big mass gains, and plan to keep the lifting somewhat light. At 32 I could care less about picking up a bunch of extra muscle that I have to maintain for the rest of my life. Heart problems and colon cancer run in my family, so I don't want to run the risk of long term side affects associated with the heavier hitters. My cholesterol is typically only about 170, so if that goes up for a bit I don't think I'm at any real risk. I don't drink much anymore, and would cut out drinking entirely while on cycle (not a problem I've done it before for months on end while dieting). The potential for weight loss is also appealing. I'd like to be more like 205, which with some crude math would put me into 34 waist pants.

Anything else to be concerned with? Thoughts? Advice?

**G4R** · 07-21-2010, 07:54 PM

At 5'11, 245lbs, we will need to know your BF%. If nothing else, post a pic of yourself so we can see and help determine where you are at.

**TKO Performance** · 07-21-2010, 08:23 PM

Posting a pic throws the whole plausible deniability thing out the window. Even with the face blurred out there's still enough cues to get a positive ID.

I'm going to say realistically I'm 22%. When I was wrestling I was 170 lbs at 6% measured body fat, and had a 34" waist. I've found that typically ten pounds of fat equates to a 1" reduction in waist size (for me anyway). Therefore, if I drop from 38" to 34" that's 40 lbs of fat. 40 lbs of fat would take me from 245 to 205. Assuming that a 34" waist still equates to 6%BF, then 40 lbs is 16%, so 16+6=22. I know it's not super scientific, but from what I've read the scientific methods aren't all that scientific either. Water immersion is the best, but is still +/- 1-2%. The Bod Pod sounds good, and I may do that eventually, but for now math and experience are going to have to do.

I know it's not an ideal BF percentage (and not where I want to be), but despite the excess fat I am still in pretty good shape. My brother is my training partner, and a good bit leaner than I, but he often succumbs to the pain before I do (even when doing cardio). He's leaner, but I'm a lot tougher mentally.

**G4R** · 07-21-2010, 08:37 PM

Fair enough. 22% is on the high side, and we always recommend not starting any AAS until you are at least 12% BF or lower because of the possible sides associated with higher BF and AAS use. We can help get you on a good cutting diet if you are wanting to do things the best and safest way possible.

**TKO Performance** · 07-21-2010, 09:08 PM

When I was doing my normal lifting routine, which was Mon-chest/back, Wed-arms/shoulders, and Fri-legs/low back plus cardio three other days I was losing 2lbs/week and still gaining strength. To me indicating that I was not losing muscle mass. It took some dialing in as far as caloric intake, etc. to achieve this, but once I did it was like clockwork.

My problem now is twofold. One its summer and I'm busy as hell. It's been nearly 100 degrees here for weeks on end, with high humidity. My job is fairly physical, so I'm burning the candle at both ends to an extent. Also, it's summer. The time of BBQs and parties. I haven't been as good on my diet the last month or so. Haven't gained any weight, and haven't eaten any real garbage like FF, but burgers and beer (even light beer) aren't the way I should be eating. Weight loss has stagnated for now. It'll pick back up again when I can focus better in a month or two. BTW, I was 270 the beginning of the year. I've made a commitment never to see that weight again. I stick to my commitments.

Two, I've been hampered by injury. Simply put, it sucks. It can sour your attitude, you get depressed, then you don't have energy, and then you don't work out. I love to lift. I do cardio because it is necessary to my life goals, namely to live a long one. Not being able to lift is like not being able to have sex. It's fine when you're 12 and don't know any better, but once you've tasted it you become addicted to it and crave it constantly.

Make no mistake, I don't see this leading to years of steroid use . I'm seeking to get back on the horse as quickly as possible, after which I plan to go back to doing things 100% naturally. I simply don't want another 5 month recovery time. I want to be back to 100% in two months and get myself back on track.

Speaking of diet though, is there a way to effectively lose fat without losing muscle mass while doing only light weight training, or if worst comes to worst, no weight training at all? I know cardio helps, but prolonged cardio, which is best for weight loss tends to burn muscle. Some years back I took a two year hiatus from lifting. During that time I lost weight doing Atkins, and started running a lot. I got to where I could run 6-8 miles fairly easily at a good pace. I was down to 198 lbs. The problem was that when I started lifting again I was weak as hell. I was doing bench sets with 155 lbs., that was like what I was doing at 14! I eventually gained back everything I'd lost strength wise and far surpassed any previous personal bests I'd set. Sadly the weight came back too. Atkins doesn't work for our lifestyle. That's when I started seriously researching sports nutrition, which led me to my current diet.

**Sector** · 07-21-2010, 09:55 PM

Diet down first. Steroids do very very little unless your workout routine and diet are down pact. Anavar wont melt fat off you, that will come from diet and cardio. In fact, I will let somebody correct me if they disagree but in my opinion Anavar is like Winny and you wont really notice the effects ( other then strength gains ) unless you are under 12% bodyfat.

**TKO Performance** · 07-22-2010, 04:40 AM

Okay, let me get back to my original point. The main reason I'm considering this is to help speed healing of the tendonitis in my wrist. Truthfully I could care less about the weight loss aspect, and probably shouldn't have even mentioned it, because it seems to be clouding the issue. If I came off sounding like I was looking for a shortcut to weight loss I apologize; that was not my intent. I know that I can lose the weight with proper diet and cardio. I've done it before. My failure was in keeping it off. This year I have made a lifelong commitment to doing cardio and eating better. No more diets followed by periods of eating garbage and regaining weight. No more getting into, then out of shape. I plan in the long term to get down to a more ideal body weight and then maintain that weight the rest of my life +/- 5 lbs. That will probably take the rest of this year, maybe longer to do right, and I'm fine with that. The slower the weight comes off the less likely you are to gain it back.

So, back to my core concept, does anyone think that using Anavar in this way will help me achieve my goal of faster healing? I've read some promising things about it, but does anyone have any first hand experience?

**BJJ** · 07-22-2010, 06:16 AM

This was my experience.
I solved my tendons pain with Oxandrolone.

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=403234

**glover** · 07-22-2010, 08:27 AM

Anavar will not solve your tendonitis. In fact as you become stronger and lift heavier, and you will. It will only make it worse in the long run. You need to get your pain manageable and get your diet better.

Originally Posted by TKO Performance

Okay, let me get back to my original point. The main reason I'm considering this is to help speed healing of the tendonitis in my wrist. Truthfully I could care less about the weight loss aspect, and probably shouldn't have even mentioned it, because it seems to be clouding the issue. If I came off sounding like I was looking for a shortcut to weight loss I apologize; that was not my intent. I know that I can lose the weight with proper diet and cardio. I've done it before. My failure was in keeping it off. This year I have made a lifelong commitment to doing cardio and eating better. No more diets followed by periods of eating garbage and regaining weight. No more getting into, then out of shape. I plan in the long term to get down to a more ideal body weight and then maintain that weight the rest of my life +/- 5 lbs. That will probably take the rest of this year, maybe longer to do right, and I'm fine with that. The slower the weight comes off the less likely you are to gain it back.

So, back to my core concept, does anyone think that using Anavar in this way will help me achieve my goal of faster healing? I've read some promising things about it, but does anyone have any first hand experience?

**stevey_6t9** · 07-22-2010, 08:46 AM

Originally Posted by glover

Anavar will not solve your tendonitis. In fact as you become stronger and lift heavier, and you will. It will only make it worse in the long run. You need to get your pain manageable and get your diet better.

Not necessarily. Var increases several biomakers of collagen synthesis and can be used to help with tendon injuries.

**ScotchGuard** · 07-22-2010, 10:51 AM

I just got done with an 8 week var + HGH cycle. I also used 150mg/wk of Test E to keep my endogenous level of Test even. My bum shoulder feels better. I can't say it was the var since I was also on HGH and Test. My feeling is that it didn't hurt it and now I'm feeling better.

**428scj** · 07-22-2010, 02:50 PM

First time I have read this topic of Var and tendon issues but I have noticed my elbow pain (used to be a problem during heavy lifts) has completely subsided during this cycle as well. Interesting, indeed.

**TKO Performance** · 07-22-2010, 05:18 PM

I did pretty extensive research before joining this forum and posting. From what I've read DHT derived aas usually have a detrimental affect on tendons and connective tissue. The reason is that though they provide rapid strengthening in the muscles themselves, they reduce collagen synthesis. This is bad for everything but muscles, since tendons and connective tissue are made from collagen. Deca , EQ, and Anavar are not DHT based, and actually have been shown to increase collagen synthesis. For a long time it was widely claimed that the reduction in water from Winny and other DHT based aas was what caused joint soreness. Scientifically this isn't really true. It seems that the key is progesterone. Progesterone spurs collagen synthesis, as does estrogen. Regular testosterone has also been shown to promote collagen synthesis because it aromatizes to estrogen. Estrogen also through various processes is important in the anti-inflamatory response, and a lack of it can cause inflamation and the associated pain. This is a quick version of it, but a good source for more detailed information is:

http://www.mesomorphosis.com/article...our-joints.htm

Yes, I know its by Anthony Roberts, who some people seem to not like too much, but I have checked his sources, and vetted the claims and they all appear spot on. FYI, I was pre-med at one point in my academic career and know quite a bit about organic chem and how the body works. I also know how to tell sound research from bad.

BJJ, the thread given above is one of the ones I read before joining up here. Very detailed and lots of good info. I agree with one of the guys on that thread too; I wish mma was what it is now 15 years ago. I've done martial arts my whole life and wrestled for six years. I fought competitively in my teens with a near perfect record. Sadly at 32 I'm too banged up and into to many other things to try and make a run at it. I have considered getting into BJJ though. It would be fun to learn another form and get some good exercise. I miss wrestling, and BJJ seems to be what a lot of older wrestlers around here are into.

Glover, I don't plan to lift super heavy while on cycle, and plan to avoid motions that I know will aggravate the tendonitis, even if the pain has subsided. I haven't lifted in a month, so I'm quite a bit off peak anyway. I'm getting back in this week with two sets plus a warm up. I do not plan to even try to get up to post injury strength until I'm sure the injury is healed. Again, it isn't about strength. I've never had a problem gaining that naturally. I come from a family of big, powerful men. I had an uncle who was drafted by the Raiders. He had a 19" neck in college, and was an All American in '71. Even though I know I'm carrying a good 40 lbs of fat around with me I'm still quite strong for my weight. My experience is that most guys, even guys who lift regularly struggle to bench their own body weight. Before my injury I was doing 4 sets of 10 with 10 lbs. above my body weight. With 6 billion people in the world my guess is that less than 1% of them can bench over 300 lbs. I'm in that club too. Anyway, off topic, point is I'm trying to speed recovery and reduce the chance of recurance, not add a bunch of weight to my bench, deadlift, or squat.

I do appreciate what you're saying though. I think that may have been what got me here in the first place too. I've never had tendonitis in my life. Is it a coincidence that it starts at age 32 coinciding with the point in my life at which I am the strongest? Doubtful. I think I did what you're talking about, but I did it naturally. I think the combo of a dialed in diet, NO Shotgun, creatine, and various short chain amminos built strength faster than my tendons could keep up. I also think that I didn't really know how close to the ragged edge I was in terms of injury. All it seems to have taken was a couple of long, hard days shoveling snow (elbow) and a couple of days of wrenching on one of my rusty projects (wrist) to push me over the brink. I have the type of mind that tends to ignore pain, or use it as fuel. I also have a high pain threshold. Consequently when I'm tired, sore, or exhausted I just cowboy up and push through. Maybe that's not always the best philosophy. I've never believed in limits, but maybe they do exist. I guess we'll see.

428SJC, great handle! I have a '67 fastback I'd love to drop one of those into...

**428scj** · 07-22-2010, 07:33 PM

Hey, the first 'Gear head' of another kind....lol. I was wondering when or if someone would notice.

**TKO Performance** · 07-23-2010, 04:39 AM

Most definitely. I've always had a soft spot for the FE motors. My car's just a 289 4 barrel C4, but I've had a 390 under my bench for many years. I just never got around to doing anything with it. Hopefully in the next couple of years I'll be able to do a 445 stroker buildup and swap to a Tremec 5-speed. I've got some other projects to get done first though, and summer is the worst time for that. I'm too busy and the shop's too hot. Now with this wrist tendonitis I feel like a cripple. One of my greatest fears has always been that something would happen to one of my hands. My grandfather had reumatoid arthritis and basically couldn't use his hands for much at the end of his life. That's one of the few things that has really scared me, because all the things I do in life which I love require my hands (lifting, cars, woodworking, drawing). I'm getting a small taste of it now and God does it suck.