Do I have Gyno; What should I do ?

[smfo00]

I am a 26 year old male and I was running a Test-E cycle for the past 16 weeks without any kind of side effect. The Cycle went great. Once I came off I I started running a Nolvadex PCT for the following 3 weeks. Again, everything was going swimmingly. After I finished my third week of PCT, however, I decided to come of. I am now in my 6th week of being off cycle and have developed a case of Gyno under my left nipple. At first I didn't think it was possible to have a flair up this far out of a Cycle. Has anyone had any experiences like this ? Will this clear up or am I doomed ?

[joshag]

Although I have never had this happen I could offer some suggestions.

If it is just puffy and swollen you can probably get away with running nolva. If is an actual lump under the nipple you will need to run letro. Being that you have caught it early you are not "doomed".

Having never had this problem I cannot recommend the dosages but not to fret. There is enough research on the web and enough smart people here to get you through this.

[joshag]

Found this here and has some good info...

16 Ways to Fight Gynecomastia

By Eric M. Potratz

Eric M. Potratz has developed his education in the field of endocrinology and performance enhancement through years of research, counseling, and real world experience. Over the past five years he has been a private consultant for hundreds of athletes and bodybuilders alike, and is the founder & president of Primordial Performance.[/center]




Gynecomastia = Gyno


Most people think the only way to combat gyno is to use Nolvadex or Clomid. Considering the undesirable side-effects of these drugs, I generally don’t prefer these as the first line of defense. I have expressed my concerns about SERM’s in my article – Clomid & Nolvadex – The Dark Side.

In this article I summarize alternative methods for combating the occurrence of gyno. The advice given in this article is the result of over 10 years experience in counseling individuals with AAS induced gyno.

If you have gyno as a result of an endocrine disorder, I advise consulting your doctor before making changes to your prescribed medical regimen.


You Do Not Have Gyno!


During mammary tissue growth (the onset of gyno), you may notice the following symptoms -

* Puffy or swollen nipples
* Overly sensitive nipples
* Itchiness around the nipples

Editorial note: I promise -- that is the last time I will ever say nipples.

Now, just because you may have these symptoms does not mean you HAVE GYNO. It simply means that you HAVE GYNO SYMPTOMS. Remember, it is normal to have a small flat pea sized lump under the nipple. This is NOT gyno.

Now, if you allow these above symptoms to progress for several weeks then you may develop gyno. So if you are experiencing any of the above symptoms then you are smart to take action before it’s too late – But please stop emailing me saying you “have gyno” after 3 days on a cycle – this is physiologically impossible.

The good news is that even if you do have a slight case of gyno that you developed from a cycle, it’s probably 100% reversible. Read on…

Nipples.


Gyno Hysteria


No level of gyno is “permanent”. Any level of gyno can be reversed by dietary, supplemental and/or hormonal intervention. Mammary tissue (gyno) can be catabolized like any other tissue in the body. It’s just a matter of creating the right physiological environment within your body. Therefore, as far as I’m concerned, all gyno is temporary or semi-permanent at worse.

Here are the basic levels of gyno -

Level 1 – A dime sized glandular lump – which can emerge as soon as 2-3 weeks after “gyno symptoms” appear. This type of gyno can transform into a more serious level 2 gyno if left untreated for more than 4-6 weeks. In most cases, this initial level 1 gyno disappears once the hormonal environment improves, which is generally 2-3 weeks after the inflicting steroids clear the system.

Level 2 – A quarter sized glandular lump. This type of gyno does not completely disappear on its own, but may gradually shrink to “Level 1” size after discontinuing the inflicting steroids. Completely reversing level 2 gyno requires aggressive dietary and supplemental intervention in conjunction with prescription grade drugs.

Generally, the levels of gyno can be referred to in the following way –

level 1 = temporary

level 2 = semi-permanent

Be warned, if gyno is allowed to grow large enough, the cost of surgery may be more cost efficient than trying to battle the gyno through drug and lifestyle changes – which could otherwise take months or years of intervention.

Following the 16 points below will help you prevent and reverse level 1 & 2 gyno -


The 16 Points


Consider all the following points. Remember, there are many factors that can contribute to gyno and performing just a handful of the points below may be the key to avoiding gyno all together.

1. Your naturally occurring 5a-reduced metabolites are your friends in preventing and reversing gyno. 5a-reduced metabolites include androsterone, androstanedione, androstanediol and dihydrotestosterone (DHT) as the most powerful 5a-reduced hormone. These hormones help prevent gyno by lowering estrogen and blocking the effect of estrogen at the hormone receptor. (1-8) Unless you have serious androgen related hair loss you want to keep your 5a-reduced metabolites relatively high to avoid gyno.

Methods for increasing 5a-reduced metabolites (DHT) are listed in preferred order –

* Topical testosterone applied to the scrotum will rapidly increase DHT levels with minimal estrogen conversion. (for more information on topical steroids, read this article)

* Use a DHT pro-hormone such as androsterone, found in AndroHard. This will raise DHT with zero risk of estrogen conversion.

* Injectable testosterone along with an AI to prevent excessive estrogen conversion.

* High dose oral 4-DHEA or DHEA along with an AI to prevent excessive estrogen conversion.


2. If you are concerned about gyno, avoid finesteride at all costs. It lowers all 5a-reduced metabolites to undesirable levels and has an extremely long half-life which continues to suppress DHT levels long after discontinuing the drug. (9) Progesterone would be a better anti-DHT alternative if you are concerned with hair loss. Plus, progesterone can clear the system within 24hrs making a mistake in dosing much less risky.

3. Almost all sources of gyno can be linked back to having insufficient levels of 5a-reduced metabolites in the body. In theory, any amount of estrogen/progesterone can be blocked by sufficient DHT. (10-14) Also, high DHT and enlargement of the prostate is a myth, however high estrogen and high DHT can lead to an inflamed prostate, so you want to at least make an effort to keep estrogen in a normal range. (14)

4. Trenbolone , TREN , Nandrolone can cause gyno because they lack a potent 5a-reduced metabolite (dihydronandrolone is weaker than dihydrotestosterone). (15) If you are worried about gyno from progestational steroids you should consider boosting your 5a-reduced metabolites during the cycle (mentioned above). This can avoid most if not all of the gyno problems associated with progestational hormones. I should mention here that aromatase inhibitors alone (AI’s) will not help prevent gyno from progestational compounds. It is the antagonistic action of 5a-reduced hormones that is required.

5. Nothing is going to antagonize estrogen at the estrogen receptor (ER) better than actual DHT. While DHT derivatives or analogs such as Anavar , Winstrol , Masteron , Epistane, Superdrone, ect may be 5a-reduced, they cannot convert to actual DHT and thus cannot directly inhibit gyno at the receptor level (since they lack the ultra-high binding affinity for the AR that true DHT possesses). (16)

6. Natural anti-estrogens (resveratrol, chrysin, I3C, DIM, ect) are great for PCT and can stimulate the HPTA and manage healthy estrogen metabolism, but they are not strong enough to prevent aromatization from high doses of aromatizing steroids. Don’t rely on these to prevent gyno during a cycle.

7. Reducing prolactin will reduce the overall stimulation on mammary growth. Suppressing prolactin is useful as a temporary method to help slow or stop gyno growth. However, continuing anti-prolactin treatment is not recommended to be continued beyond 8 weeks. Methods of suppressing prolactin include –

* Vitex at 460mg/day
* Vitamin B6 at 200-400mg/day
* Mucuna Pruriens (15%-20% L-Dopa) 4-6g/day
* Increasing DHT may also lower prolactin release (17)


8. Don’t fiddle with your nipples. This increases prolactin release which can make gyno worse.

9. IGF-1, GH, insulin and prolactin are all potent growth factors in gyno growth. Limiting these hormones will reduce the likelihood of experiencing gyno symptoms. “Bulking” (aka., eating-a-shitload-of-everything) will increase most of the growth factors listed above. Cutting calories (especially carbohydrates) will suppress insulin and IGF-1 therefore reducing the overall stimulatory effect on mammary growth. Ketogenic diet = less risk of gyno.

10. Body fat (adipose tissue) is the main site for androgens to convert to estrogens. Therefore, being overweight or having high body fat increases your gyno risk. This is another good reason to go on a cutting cycle if you are gyno prone. Reducing body fat will lower your rate of estrogen conversion from aromatizing steroids. (18)

11. Caffeine consumption can inhibit clearance of estrogen from the liver by competing for the P-450 oxidase system. Avoid caffeine if you are concerned about high estrogen levels.

12. Avoid supplements containing forskolin if concerned about gyno. Forskolin increases aromatase activity via cAMP modulation and can increase formation of estrogen. (23,24)

13. Increasing fiber intake (both soluble and insoluble) can enhance clearance of estrogens from the intestines. Research shows that increasing fiber intake in humans can reduce estrogen levels by up to 22%. (19)

14. Reducing estrogen below the normal range (such as over dosing arimidex , letrozol, aromasin or formestane) can eventually reduce SHBG levels, thus allowing more estrogen to freely circulate (by offsetting it from SHBG). Higher levels of freely circulating estrogen can amplify breast tissue growth (20). SHBG also appears to have anti-estrogenic effects at the cell receptor level. (21, 22) Avoiding over suppression of SHBG will reduce your gyno risk.

15. Don’t be afraid to lower the dose mid cycle. People have a tendency to panic at the first sign of gyno and drop everything. Generally, just lowering the dose of the afflicting steroid can offer gyno relief within 4-5 days.

16. Save SERM’s as your last resort against gyno. You do not need a SERM (tormifene, clomid or nolva) to avoid gyno from a properly planned cycle. If you are still having gyno problems after following the above points, consider the fact that you have a poorly planned cycle and you need to revaluate the compounds you have chosen.

[smfo00]

Thanks for getting back to me.

When I look at my left nipple in the mirror it is almost impossible to tell that there is anything wrong with it at all. However, it is sore to the touch and does have a very, very, small lump under the nipple.

[TKO Performance]

First off, IMO you cut your PCT a week short. 16 weeks is a long time on with only three weeks of PCT.

Second, dosage would be very helpful for both cycle and PCT.

Third, great information joshag!

[jojomcgo]

Thanks for getting back to me.

When I look at my left nipple in the mirror it is almost impossible to tell that there is anything wrong with it at all. However, it is sore to the touch and does have a very, very, small lump under the nipple.

I don't know much about this as (nock on wood) i have yet to have this problem but just wanted to let you know im not sure how big your lump is but it is natural from my understanding to have a dime size lump behing your nipple as every one does.

[smfo00]

I would say that the lump is larger than normal as I do not have one on my right side - it is about the size of a large frozen pea.

I was running a cycle of Test-E at 500mg a week; I ran my Post Cycle at 40mg a day for the first 8 days and then dropped the dose to 20mg a day for the rest.

[TTFU]

So, what that is saying, is that if you have a small pea sized lump underneath your nipple that is very sensitive to the touch that it is NOT gyno?

[jojomcgo]

So, what that is saying, is that if you have a small pea sized lump underneath your nipple that is very sensitive to the touch that it is NOT gyno?

No no i was just going off the fact that he said there was a lump,if it is sensative and persist then i would think that yes you have a problem but the man before me laid it all out .... with his info im just saying every one has a small lump behind the nipple about the size of a dime.

[TTFU]

Ahh okay.

I am actually dealing with gyno right now. I developed a pea size lump about 3 weeks AFTER PCT. Been on 2.5mg of Letro for about 7-10 days and haven't noticed a difference yet..

[AlphaGenetics]

You diddnt run pct long enough. I would run 6 weeks clomid/nolva after that cycle.