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  1. #1
    gregghowie is offline Junior Member
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    Exclamation How am I looking?

    Ok here we go am about to do my first cycle and this is what I am thinking? Please only comment if you are an experienced user of AAS.

    Age: 22 ( I know I should wait. But please bare with me here)
    Height: 6ft
    Weight: 200 (Origionally I posted 180! My bad used to kilograms not pounds I am actually 90 kgs)
    BF: Dont know but in the mid teens, I added some recently to maximize any potential gains.
    Training. Approximately 3 years

    Cycle:
    1-10 weeks
    250 mg/per week Testosterone cypionate (Depo-Testosterone )

    PCT
    Which I will begin 14-16 days after my last injection.
    HCG . 125-250ius 2-3 times weekly for 16 days.
    Clomid. Will be 100 mg per day for 30 days.
    Nolvadex . 10 mg per day for 45 days.

    Anti-Estrogenic
    Arimidex . On hand for estrogenic side affects. Which will be taken at 1 mg per day for the remainder of the cycle.

    Health Precautions
    Which I will take throught the cycle.
    Fish Oil. "To help cholesterol damage"
    Lipid Stabil (Molecular Nutrition) "To help cholesterol damage"
    Liver Stabil (Molecular Nutrition) "To help with liver support"

    Vitamin E "Vita E increases blood plasma response to HCG"

    Here are my concerns:
    1. Are my doses for for my HGC. Clomid. Nolvadex creditble? And please pay particluar attention to the time frame that I would use them for. Has anybody had first time experince with this type of combination or seen it first hand?

    2. Or would I better off with example 2 of PCT?

    Example 2 PCT
    Which I will begin 14-16 days after my last injection.
    HCG. 125-250ius 2-3 times weekly for 16 days.
    Nolvadex. 20 mg per day for 45 days.
    Aromasin . 20-25mgs per day for 35 days.

    I would greatly appreciate any additional comments in general.
    Last edited by gregghowie; 08-10-2010 at 09:07 AM.

  2. #2
    baseline_9's Avatar
    baseline_9 is offline The Transformer ~VET~Recognized Staff Winner - $100
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    I dont need to be an experienced AAS user to see that there are problems here

    I have run 250mg yest e with good results, i woupd up the dose tho to 400-500

    Both PCT options suck

    You need to research the use of HCG as you are mistaken in the way you are planning to use it

    Also research dosing for arimidex as you are off there aswell

  3. #3
    AlphaGenetics's Avatar
    AlphaGenetics is offline Senior Member
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    your nolva doses are incorrect also

  4. #4
    TTFU is offline Junior Member
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    500mg test / wk
    250iu HCG 2x/wk on cycle.
    Start adex @ 0.25mg EOD. Move up to 0.5mg EOD, or even ED, only if needed.

    I like to run clomid and Nolva for PCT. (Aromasin is great for PCT too!)
    Nolva @ 40/20/20/20
    and
    Clomid @ 75/50/50/25

  5. #5
    baseline_9's Avatar
    baseline_9 is offline The Transformer ~VET~Recognized Staff Winner - $100
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    All in all you have layed your thread out nicley with all the rite compounds, the proble is the compound are either under doses, overdosed or in the wronge places

    Ur almost there, do a. It more research and repost

  6. #6
    baseline_9's Avatar
    baseline_9 is offline The Transformer ~VET~Recognized Staff Winner - $100
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    Quote Originally Posted by TTFU View Post
    500mg test / wk
    250iu HCG 2x/wk on cycle.
    Start adex @ 0.25mg EOD. Move up to 0.5mg EOD, or even ED, only if needed.

    I like to run clomid and Nolva for PCT. (Aromasin is great for PCT too!)
    Nolva @ 40/20/20/20
    and
    Clomid @ 75/50/50/25
    And the award for "spoon feeder of the month" goes to......

  7. #7
    MrGreen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by baseline_9 View Post
    And the award for "spoon feeder of the month" goes to......
    LOL

  8. #8
    TTFU is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by baseline_9 View Post
    And the award for "spoon feeder of the month" goes to......


    Thank you sir!

  9. #9
    Bluelabel is offline New Member
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    Bump the upping of the test

  10. #10
    dec11's Avatar
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    guys, no one spot the biggest prob here? he's only 22!!!

    fella you really should lay off the gear for afew years, u could achieve with diet and supps

  11. #11
    gymfu's Avatar
    gymfu is offline Knowledgeable Member
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    At 180lbs and 6 foot tall you would really be better served to grow naturaly for another two years.
    Your HPTA has not set yet, and you need to work on your diet more.

    Post up your diet for some critique.

  12. #12
    dec11's Avatar
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    any of you guys who are noobs need to read up on what goes and wat doesnt on this site b4 you dish out advice

  13. #13
    OH REALLY is offline Banned
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    agreed

  14. #14
    bigp750 is offline Junior Member
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    little young for AAS.. wait a few more years...

  15. #15
    TTFU is offline Junior Member
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    The whole "wait a few years" line never works.

    They do it anyways, with no good advice. Grow tits and shrink their balls. Then end up on TRT.

    22 is a hella lot better than 17-21.

  16. #16
    Parabolic is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by TTFU View Post
    The whole "wait a few years" line never works.

    They do it anyways, with no good advice. Grow tits and shrink their balls. Then end up on TRT.

    22 is a hella lot better than 17-21.
    This, people will do it anyway they don't care about 25 or now, least you offered some good solid advice hopefully getting him to do it right.

  17. #17
    boxin23's Avatar
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    im 5-6" and weigh almost what you do....you can do this natty for a while and really gain

    you should diet for at least a couple years....

  18. #18
    dec11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TTFU View Post
    The whole "wait a few years" line never works.

    They do it anyways, with no good advice. Grow tits and shrink their balls. Then end up on TRT.

    22 is a hella lot better than 17-21.
    oh i see then, you are on the wrong site fella

  19. #19
    dec11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parabolic View Post
    This, people will do it anyway they don't care about 25 or now, least you offered some good solid advice hopefully getting him to do it right.
    you also...........

  20. #20
    lovbyts's Avatar
    lovbyts is online now Knowledgeable Member
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    Im 5' 7" and weight more and no it's not fat.

  21. #21
    gregghowie is offline Junior Member
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    Appologies!

    Going through the posts it was like I had shaken a hornets nest! Please excuse me for wasting your time I am from South Africa and we work on kilograms here. I stupidly multipled 90 kilograms by 2 instead of 2.2 which would put me closer to 200 pounds. Not heavy but a little heavier than what you may have thought. I appreciate the "spoon Feeding" and please understand that its not a lack of research guys. It may seem simple to you after experince, but going through the information the more you read the more confusing it gets as everybody reccomends something different for PCT. Particulary when it come to the HCG which is of real importance I believe.
    Once again I appologise and appreciate the info.

  22. #22
    dec11's Avatar
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    mate read the post by azandford, near the top b4 you go any further

  23. #23
    gregghowie is offline Junior Member
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by TTFU View Post
    500mg test / wk
    250iu HCG 2x/wk on cycle.
    Start adex @ 0.25mg EOD. Move up to 0.5mg EOD, or even ED, only if needed.

    I like to run clomid and Nolva for PCT. (Aromasin is great for PCT too!)
    Nolva @ 40/20/20/20
    and
    Clomid @ 75/50/50/25
    Dear TTFU

    I must start off by thanking you. Everybody here calls it "spoon feeding" but by actually writing the doses as you have done here it allows me to see where I have gone wrong. I thankyou for the nolva and the clomid doses and I understand that these are the more tried and tested methods. I am not trying to get fancy I just wanted to see if anybody had treid the doses I stated. I will probably end up using something similar to yours, as I do believe that the Nolva is not high enough in my PCT program.

    I am glad that you commented on the adex as I was also unsure whether .5 would be enough and that is why I said 1 mg. But you said that you may start even lower than that. Thanks

    I point that I am confused about is the the HCG on cycle. I will breifly quote a passage out of a well recognised anabolics book which is what added the confusion.

    "Bodybuilders and athletes may also administer HCG through a steroid cycle, in an effort to avoid testicular atrophy and the resulting reduced ability to respond to LH stimulus. In affect, this type of practise is used to avoid the problem of testicular atrophy, instead of trying to correct it later on when the cycle is over. It is important to remember that dosage needs to be carefully monitored with this type of use, as high levels of HCG may cause increased testicular aromatase expression (raising estrogen levels), and also desensitize the testes to LH. As such, the drug may actually induce primary hypogonadism when misused, greatly proloning, not improving the recovery window."

    With my lack of experince I though that it may be safer to use the HCG particluary as I will be unable to medically monotor it as such. This is why I thought it to be safer when used after the cycle as I mentioned. As you said 250iu twice per week. Would I continue to take the injections into the two weeks or so even after my last injection of test bearing in mind the half life of cypionate ?? And once the cycle is over would I be finished with HCG??

    I apprectiate the info as not everybody is familair with PCT. lol. Particulary HCG.

    Stay well

  24. #24
    gregghowie is offline Junior Member
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by dec11 View Post
    mate read the post by azandford, near the top b4 you go any further
    I feel you dog! Really I do apprectaite the fact that you are concerned for my health. Its kind of weird how this whole system works. Here I am sitting, I have never even met you before, but you are probably more concerned with my health than a lot of gym rats whom I train with every other day with.
    I appreciate it thank you.

    I read the post about azandford and I feel for the guy I really do. I am trying to put myself in the best position as possible to hopefully avoid what that poor dude is going through.
    I am hearing you about the age thing I really am, I do kind of feel that azandford may have also knocked on the devils door to a degree with the complete program he ran. But none the less I am trying to get sorted with info an then will only get the gear in a few more months. By which time I will be closer to 23. I know thats not the point, but still it is slightly closer to that golden number of 25.

    It is difficult though when it would seem as though everybody is on some form of gear. Particulary when I see freinds who have had good success with it backed not only with their gains but medical check ups subsiquently. I guess it is the chance you take with this stuff though no matter what your age.

  25. #25
    Parabolic is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregghowie View Post
    I feel you dog! Really I do apprectaite the fact that you are concerned for my health. Its kind of weird how this whole system works. Here I am sitting, I have never even met you before, but you are probably more concerned with my health than a lot of gym rats whom I train with every other day with.
    I appreciate it thank you.

    I read the post about azandford and I feel for the guy I really do. I am trying to put myself in the best position as possible to hopefully avoid what that poor dude is going through.
    I am hearing you about the age thing I really am, I do kind of feel that azandford may have also knocked on the devils door to a degree with the complete program he ran. But none the less I am trying to get sorted with info an then will only get the gear in a few more months. By which time I will be closer to 23. I know thats not the point, but still it is slightly closer to that golden number of 25.

    It is difficult though when it would seem as though everybody is on some form of gear. Particulary when I see freinds who have had good success with it backed not only with their gains but medical check ups subsiquetly. I guess it is the chance you take with this stuff though no matter what your age.
    Worry less about your age, just make sure your PCT is BANG on and vets here agree with it and you've got it all on hand and know what to do when something comes up and then go for it.

  26. #26
    Oil-KID11's Avatar
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    I will find the post on the site that really dives into the usage of HCG . Personally, im a novice and I have spent A LOT of time on here reading...Everyone truly seems to be pretty consistent in their dosages and proper protocols for usage. Just takes a ton of reading. I will offer my two cents which should be backed up by a Vet...You should start your usage of HCG on your 14th day after your 1st shot of Test. You will end your HCG usage around the time you make your last shot of Test (same day or day or two after). You should spread out your shots to 250 IU's every 4 days. Roughly 500 IU's / Weekly seems to be the sweet spot. By the way here is a link to one of the threads on the board that I enjoyed. http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...&highlight=HCG
    Last edited by Oil-KID11; 08-10-2010 at 09:43 AM.

  27. #27
    Oil-KID11's Avatar
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    As far as your PCT, which I got to add....Here is what I have found to be the most used and trusted dosages throughout the forum....

    2 weeks after last shot of Test


    Nolva 40/20/20/20

    Clomid 100/50/50/50

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by dec11 View Post
    oh i see then, you are on the wrong site fella
    Dude, stfu
    22 is young but its a hell of a lot better than I often see. There really isn't any GOOD age to do dangerous illegal compounds. 25 would be better is suppose, but he was made aware of this and should be given good advice seeing as how most go on and use anyway. Telling members who are trying to help that they are at the wrong site is silly. The mods can probably handle this without you riding their jock.

  29. #29
    gregghowie is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by TTexas View Post
    Dude, stfu
    22 is young but its a hell of a lot better than I often see. There really isn't any GOOD age to do dangerous illegal compounds. 25 would be better is suppose, but he was made aware of this and should be given good advice seeing as how most go on and use anyway. Telling members who are trying to help that they are at the wrong site is silly. The mods can probably handle this without you riding their jock.
    Cheers dude

  30. #30
    PK-V's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregghowie View Post
    Ok here we go am about to do my first cycle and this is what I am thinking? Please only comment if you are an experienced user of AAS.

    Age: 22 ( I know I should wait. But please bare with me here)
    Height: 6ft
    Weight: 200 (Origionally I posted 180! My bad used to kilograms not pounds I am actually 90 kgs)
    BF: Dont know but in the mid teens, I added some recently to maximize any potential gains.
    Training. Approximately 3 years

    Cycle:
    1-10 weeks
    250 mg/per week Testosterone cypionate (Depo-Testosterone )

    PCT
    Which I will begin 14-16 days after my last injection.
    HCG . 125-250ius 2-3 times weekly for 16 days.
    Clomid. Will be 100 mg per day for 30 days.
    Nolvadex . 10 mg per day for 45 days.

    Anti-Estrogenic
    Arimidex . On hand for estrogenic side affects. Which will be taken at 1 mg per day for the remainder of the cycle.

    Health Precautions
    Which I will take throught the cycle.
    Fish Oil. "To help cholesterol damage"
    Lipid Stabil (Molecular Nutrition) "To help cholesterol damage"
    Liver Stabil (Molecular Nutrition) "To help with liver support"

    Vitamin E "Vita E increases blood plasma response to HCG"

    Here are my concerns:
    1. Are my doses for for my HGC. Clomid. Nolvadex creditble? And please pay particluar attention to the time frame that I would use them for. Has anybody had first time experince with this type of combination or seen it first hand?

    2. Or would I better off with example 2 of PCT?

    Example 2 PCT
    Which I will begin 14-16 days after my last injection.
    HCG. 125-250ius 2-3 times weekly for 16 days.
    Nolvadex. 20 mg per day for 45 days.
    Aromasin . 20-25mgs per day for 35 days.

    I would greatly appreciate any additional comments in general.

    imo

    hcg should be at least 250 and + dont go lower than that

    use nolva for pct drop the clomid

    and replace with a second gen serm

    but you should be fine as you'll be using hcg throughout

    no need to take such a high dose of adex when on

    .2 eod would be fine unless your prone

    you want to have some estro floating around

    oh I almost forgot you need to up the test to at least 400+ serious!

    bump the nolva to 20mg a day

    depending if stacking with a second pct serm

    good luck

  31. #31
    dec11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Parabolic View Post
    Worry less about your age, just make sure your PCT is BANG on and vets here agree with it and you've got it all on hand and know what to do when something comes up and then go for it.
    you are headed towards the ban hammer mate, 16 posts and already your all for the using too young, dont see you lasting long

  32. #32
    dec11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TTexas View Post
    Dude, stfu
    22 is young but its a hell of a lot better than I often see. There really isn't any GOOD age to do dangerous illegal compounds. 25 would be better is suppose, but he was made aware of this and should be given good advice seeing as how most go on and use anyway. Telling members who are trying to help that they are at the wrong site is silly. The mods can probably handle this without you riding their jock.
    is that right, asshole? you dont like it then fvck off, stupid kids that think they know it all. we'll see what way it turns out big shot

  33. #33
    dec11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregghowie View Post
    I feel you dog! Really I do apprectaite the fact that you are concerned for my health. Its kind of weird how this whole system works. Here I am sitting, I have never even met you before, but you are probably more concerned with my health than a lot of gym rats whom I train with every other day with.
    I appreciate it thank you.

    I read the post about azandford and I feel for the guy I really do. I am trying to put myself in the best position as possible to hopefully avoid what that poor dude is going through.
    I am hearing you about the age thing I really am, I do kind of feel that azandford may have also knocked on the devils door to a degree with the complete program he ran. But none the less I am trying to get sorted with info an then will only get the gear in a few more months. By which time I will be closer to 23. I know thats not the point, but still it is slightly closer to that golden number of 25.

    It is difficult though when it would seem as though everybody is on some form of gear. Particulary when I see freinds who have had good success with it backed not only with their gains but medical check ups subsiquently. I guess it is the chance you take with this stuff though no matter what your age.
    yes true but at your age its significantly riskier, your htpa system isnt fully developed at your age and you risk damaging it b4 its fully matured, i waited till 32 b4 i took anything, 6 cycles with proper pct's etc and each time my natty system came back less and less until trt was on the cards. be wary of these fools advocating young usage, they are more concerned with ' hey, dont tell me what to do' than your health. end of day its up 2 you but be fully aware of poss damaging and life long consequences

  34. #34
    AlphaGenetics's Avatar
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    IMO I think 25 is too young. When I was that age I was natural and more muscluar than I am now. I diddnt start aas until 35. Like dec said every cycle you do will take a toll on your natural production, and no matter what, pct or not, you cannot avoid this, but when your under 25 this danger is doubled. gl

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