2nd cycle advice!!!!

[MMA-ROME]

Heeyyy,

This is my second cycle i'm doing and basically just want some feedback on it which will be greatly aprreciated!!

Stats:
age - 25
weight - 190IBS
height - 6.2
diet - 3000+ calories a day
training 5 days a week

Cycle:
Sustanon 500MG EW Mon/Thurs 1-10weeks
Dbol 40mg ED 1-5weeks
Arimedex ED (not sure on dose) ?? 1-10weeks

Supplements:
creatine
whey protein, casein protein
chromium picolate
tribulus
zma
arginine
amino acids

Pct:
Tamoxifen (Not sure on dose) ?? 10-12weeks
Aromasin (Not sure on dose) ?? 10-12weeks
Hcg 8-12 weeks (Not sure on dose) ??


If you guys could help me out on doses and also hcg is this Ok to take weeks 8-12 or should i run through out??

Many thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!

[HawaiianPride.]

I suggest you get up to 200lbs before you start. You should be well above 200lbs naturally at your height.

With that being said:
Exe* 10mg EOD if needed.
Clomid 100/50/50/50
Nolva 40/40/20/20
HCG 500iu 2x PW

[george_lifter]

i saw the arimidex at 10mg eod and didnt know that was right??? shouldnt that maybe be 1 eod or .25ed?

[HawaiianPride.]

I posted Dex before I realized he was referring to Exe.

[MMA-ROME]

What weeks should i start running the HCG?
Would this be a waste to run throughout?

What dose of Arimdex ED do you guys suggest?

[george_lifter]

lol i figured that, but this way i look smart! lol

[TKO Performance]

Arginine supplementation on its own is a waste. It's only effective when used with a nitric acid complex like NO Shotgun (the best IMO).

Get on some glutamine to help with muscle fatigue and recovery.

B and C vitamin supplements as well, at least 300% and 1,000% of your daily.

Omega 3 and 6 too (flax oil is what I prefer).

Calories should be more like 3,500-4,000 a day with a 20/40/40 split of fat/protein/carbs.

I agree that at your height you should easily be 200 lbs. My brother is 6' and like 192 and he's only been training with me for about a year. He'll have no problem hitting 200 naturally in another year even at his current BF or lower.

Training five days a week? How? Hopefully not all lifting...How many years of training experience?

[george_lifter]

um...i would use adex at .25 eod and raise it if needed
start running hcg in the first week till the end of you cycle
It would not be a waste of time..keep them balls from shrinking(better to be safe then sorry)

[MMA-ROME]

Arginine supplementation on its own is a waste. It's only effective when used with a nitric acid complex like NO Shotgun (the best IMO).

Get on some glutamine to help with muscle fatigue and recovery.

B and C vitamin supplements as well, at least 300% and 1,000% of your daily.

Omega 3 and 6 too (flax oil is what I prefer).

Calories should be more like 3,500-4,000 a day with a 20/40/40 split of fat/protein/carbs.

I agree that at your height you should easily be 200 lbs. My brother is 6' and like 192 and he's only been training with me for about a year. He'll have no problem hitting 200 naturally in another year even at his current BF or lower.

Training five days a week? How? Hopefully not all lifting...How many years of training experience?

Cheers, i'll look into that NO shotgun. Glutamine check, multi vitamins check, does flax oil contain both omega 3 & 6?

I do 4 days a week weights training with the 5th day being cardo and bag work.

Cheers mate

[MMA-ROME]

um...i would use adex at .25 eod and raise it if needed
start running hcg in the first week till the end of you cycle
It would not be a waste of time..keep them balls from shrinking(better to be safe then sorry)

Thankyou!

I have tamoxifen and aromasin as my PCT.. is this OK?

Would clomid be necessary?

[george_lifter]

i would use tamoxifen(Nolva) and clomid, but let one of the pros answer this one....im just sure of the nolva and clomid as the best.

[george_lifter]

also since nolva already is an anit estrogen, you shouldnt need aromasin. So clomid to help with the test levels to get back down to normal

[george_lifter]

Sustanon 500MG EW Mon/Thurs 1-10weeks
Dbol 40mg ED 1-5weeks
Adex-.25 eod or ed 1-10wks
Hcg-400ius every 4th day 1-10wks

PCT
Nolva
Clomid

[MMA-ROME]

Sustanon 500MG EW Mon/Thurs 1-10weeks
Dbol 40mg ED 1-5weeks
Adex-.25 eod or ed 1-10wks
Hcg-400ius every 4th day 1-10wks

PCT
Nolva
Clomid

Cheers mate!!!

Also can i mix the HCG in with the Sustanon and inject? or would these have to be seperated?

[suttie]

Sustanon 500MG EW Mon/Thurs 1-10weeks
Dbol 40mg ED 1-5weeks
Adex-.25 eod or ed 1-10wks
Hcg-400ius every 4th day 1-10wks

PCT
Nolva
Clomid

^^ as above ,adex will keep of any blaot giveing you a real sence of what your gains ,also great for gyno.

[suttie]

Cheers mate!!!

Also can i mix the HCG in with the Sustanon and inject? or would these have to be seperated?

i think you can but i would just do it separate ,im for aas and sub q for hcg.

[TKO Performance]

PCT should consist of Nolva and Clomid at 40/40/20/20 and 100/50/50/50 respectively.

There is debate about when to use HCG, so I'd do some reading on that. I'm not an authority, but several who are apparently have differing opinions on this, so I'd check into it thoroughly.

Aromasin is a suicide inhibitor, which blocks the production of estrogen by blocking the aromatase enzym. You would use Aromasin during your cycle to prevent gyno, but the dose or even use at all is a highly personalized thing. Guys who are gyno prone need more, some guys need none. Arimidex does the same thing, so you don't need both compounds on hand.

Good Flax should have Omega 3 and 6 in it, not sure if it's like that naturally or if the one I take has been enriched. I used to take fish oil, but avoid it now because without FDA controls there is no telling where the fish oil comes from. Fish oil is from fish fat, which is where all the toxins are stored. I'll pass on PCB and mercury contamination thanks.

How many year training experience do you have, and whats your workout split look like?

[HawaiianPride.]

HCG doesn't need to be ran the entire time. You can run it the last 6 weeks to enhance PCT, or earlier if atrophy occurs.

Exe 10mg EOD or Dex 0.5mg EOD if needed.
Yes both SERMS would be wise.
Glutamine has been proven time and time again it's useless through oral administration for recovery.

[TKO Performance]

Maybe its a palcebo effect then, but I've been taking glutamine for years and personally believe that it helps with recovery. Without it soreness could last three-four days. With it and its limited to two. That's with all things being held constant (diet, other supplement intake, training regimen, etc.). I do take about 10mg/day when the suggested dose is only 5, so maybe that has something to do with it. I also take it after a workout with my post workout drink, which has some simple sugar in it to generate an insulin reaction for delivery.

I don't doubt your knowledge HP, any studies, etc. you can link me to? Now I'm curious...

[MMA-ROME]

i think you can but i would just do it separate ,im for aas and sub q for hcg.

Do you know if HCG is a oil or water soluble?

Surely if it is oil then it would be OK to mix with sustanon.. yeah?

[HawaiianPride.]

I don't doubt your knowledge HP, any studies, etc. you can link me to? Now I'm curious...

It's hard for a long time Glute user to fathom what I just said, believe me I know...

All the stuff is on my other rig bro. This CPU is brand new.

[MMA-ROME]

PCT should consist of Nolva and Clomid at 40/40/20/20 and 100/50/50/50 respectively.

There is debate about when to use HCG, so I'd do some reading on that. I'm not an authority, but several who are apparently have differing opinions on this, so I'd check into it thoroughly.

Aromasin is a suicide inhibitor, which blocks the production of estrogen by blocking the aromatase enzym. You would use Aromasin during your cycle to prevent gyno, but the dose or even use at all is a highly personalized thing. Guys who are gyno prone need more, some guys need none. Arimidex does the same thing, so you don't need both compounds on hand.

Good Flax should have Omega 3 and 6 in it, not sure if it's like that naturally or if the one I take has been enriched. I used to take fish oil, but avoid it now because without FDA controls there is no telling where the fish oil comes from. Fish oil is from fish fat, which is where all the toxins are stored. I'll pass on PCB and mercury contamination thanks.

How many year training experience do you have, and whats your workout split look like?

So clomid is a must then. Always heard just take 1 or the other..

Cheers for that dude!!

Been training 5 years, hard for the past 2 years.

Workout is split into;

Mon: Chest, tri's
Tues: Shoulders, legs, light cardio
Weds: Rest
Thurs: Back, biceps, light cardio
Friday: Chest tri's
Sat: Rest
Sun: either back or shoulders and bag work

[Neevor]

Arginine supplementation on its own is a waste. It's only effective when used with a nitric acid complex like NO Shotgun (the best IMO).

Get on some glutamine to help with muscle fatigue and recovery.

Training five days a week? How? Hopefully not all lifting...How many years of training experience?

TKO, wtf? Dude I disagree with all three of these statements. I think you're way off base here, respectfully.

Arginine IS the Nitric Oxide (Nitric Acid is used in wood curing and rocket fuel) enhancer. The rest of the stuff in NO Shotgun is really just a bunch of bunk they add so they can sell it for a crap load of money. Its basically Arginine, Caffein, B vitamins, and Creatine (which is better to take after a work out than before, they just throw it in cause its for newbs who have no idea when to take creatine) and sometimes some taurine and beta alanine. I've taken Arginine for prework out since about a year into lifting and I can tell you it makes the difference. I usually add about 2500mgs to my 2 scoups of Superpump these days.

The glutatamine issue was already handled by HP but I agree with him. Useless..

And thirdly, the most succesful training program I have run was a variable split training program six days on and one day off. Its advanced but as long as you rest each muscle group the correct amount of days coresponding to the intensity of the work out you put them through while eating and resting correctly (including naps) its a great way to train.

[TKO Performance]

You are overtraining your chest and tris, which will make gains slow and eventually you will stagnate. If you are doing bag work don't work your shoulders more than once a week. The bag will burn your shoulders like nothing else, just from holding your hands up covering yourself. This is why boxers usually have ripped delts. I've done construction most of my life and martial arts for a good part of it and my shoulders have always been one of my best features. I'll do shoulder press with 60s for three sets of 12, because I don't have heavier dumbells.

I'd slip some cardio in on Tuesday and then slide the rest of the week down accordingly, and eliminate the Friday routine. You might want to split upper and lower back too and work lower back with legs as they are used for a lot of the same motions (straightleg deadlift, etc.).

Make those changes and you'll see great results in as little as a month.

[MMA-ROME]

You are overtraining your chest and tris, which will make gains slow and eventually you will stagnate. If you are doing bag work don't work your shoulders more than once a week. The bag will burn your shoulders like nothing else, just from holding your hands up covering yourself. This is why boxers usually have ripped delts. I've done construction most of my life and martial arts for a good part of it and my shoulders have always been one of my best features. I'll do shoulder press with 60s for three sets of 12, because I don't have heavier dumbells.

I'd slip some cardio in on Tuesday and then slide the rest of the week down accordingly, and eliminate the Friday routine. You might want to split upper and lower back too and work lower back with legs as they are used for a lot of the same motions (straightleg deadlift, etc.).

Make those changes and you'll see great results in as little as a month.

I do normal/wide chest exercises on Monday and on Thursday i focus more on close grip, inner chest.. You really think thats over training?

I do tend to do shoulders only once a week! cheers for the advice though

Hmm very true! i shall do this!!!

[Lifeguard102]

Very nice this is one of the first correct cycles I can rem seeing.
You will have nice gains.

[TKO Performance]

TKO, wtf? Dude I disagree with all three of these statements. I think you're way off base here, respectfully.

Arginine IS the Nitric Oxide (Nitric Acid is used in wood curing and rocket fuel) enhancer. The rest of the stuff in NO Shotgun is really just a bunch of bunk they add so they can sell it for a crap load of money. Its basically Arginine, Caffein, B vitamins, and Creatine (which is better to take after a work out than before, they just throw it in cause its for newbs who have no idea when to take creatine) and sometimes some taurine and beta alanine. I've taken Arginine for prework out since about a year into lifting and I can tell you it makes the difference. I usually add about 2500mgs to my 2 scoups of Superpump these days.

The glutatamine issue was already handled by HP but I agree with him. Useless..

And thirdly, the most succesful training program I have run was a variable split training program six days on and one day off. Its advanced but as long as you rest each muscle group the correct amount of days coresponding to the intensity of the work out you put them through while eating and resting correctly (including naps) its a great way to train.

Well, he wanted advice from people's personal experience and I gave him mine. I also have to say that I don't think "WTF" and "respectfully" belong in the same paragraph.

The thing about these amino acids is that people were aware of them for years, and knew they had a hand in muscle building. The problem is that they had no idea how to get them into the body in ways that they could be assimilated. If you read the bible of BBing (Arnold's Encyclopedia) you'll find that as of its publication the verdict was still out on Arginine, Taurine, etc. It has only been in the past couple of years that they have been able to come up with an effective delivery system for Arginine. NO Shotgun has the best reviews of any product of its type. I know because I read them all before buying any. Holding everything else constant the NO Shotgun took me to another level. I don't really care why, all I know is that it works, period. I know that NO Shotgun has creatine in it. That is not the only creatine I take. I take it after I work out as well. B vitamins are never a waste when you are going to exert yourself, so I consider that a plus. A little caffine helps to get you motivated, so that's not a bad thing either, and that's the only caffine I ingest.

I still consider glutamine to be effective, as I have used it for years, consider the circumstances under which I put it to the test to be a properly controlled experiment, and continue to see results. Respectfully, without backup my point is just as valid as yours whether you disagree with it or not.

My most successful training program has been a three day a week, one body part per day routine. I have worked body parts two-three times a week in the past, and did six day a week competition style BBing for over a year. My gains in mass and strength were never as successful as my three day a week setup. Training more than four days a week is overtraining for most of the guys out there who are not professionals, just people who are into the lifestyle. With less than three years of experience I would not suggest more than three days a week as you will not have enough mass and recovery ability to train body parts more than once a week. Again, this is my experience, others may differ, but using my routine I have helped others to gain rapidly and break through plateaus.

Now, to comment on the last post made by the OP, if that's your preferred method I would suggest splitting tris and chest then. You can work chest with tris, or tris with arms, etc. You are always going to get a bit of incidental training of chest while doing tris and vice versa, but that's not what I'm talking about. I'm saying don't do a full blown bench routine with a bunch of pushdowns, skullcrushers, etc. one day and then do the same thing later in the week. I consider close grip bench to be tricep work, as my triceps will fail long before I've involved my chest to any great extent. I would focus on two or three body parts per day, but only work those body parts one day a week. You can't totally isolate one muscle from the others, with very limited exception (preacher curls come to mind, but not much else), but there's a difference between total isolation and focus, just keep that in mind.