Question about Deca and Joints

**iGOTstrongBICEPS** · 08-25-2010, 12:47 AM

My whole life ive always had very bad joints and weak tendons. I read that Deca relieves joint pain and increases bone mineral content. Aside from the anabolic standpoint, how much deca is needed to help my joints and what does bone mineral content mean?

I go in for surgery to repair the tendons in my right hand thursday. This is the 3rd time ive torn a tendon.

**zoltans4** · 08-25-2010, 02:10 AM

bone mineral content is density. I can't help with the other q's

**ScotchGuard02** · 08-25-2010, 04:07 AM

Welcome to the club bro I got the same problem as you. Deca should be take in small doses like 150mg/wk. I'm currently on 125mg/wk of Deca, 125mg/wk of EQ, and 150mg/wk of Test E. It's been 5 weeks and my joints feel better. I'm also seeing a little anabolic results. Very little or no sides. I'm prone to acne and none has shown up. I'm also not looking be a monster either so things are looking good for my joints.

**HawaiianPride.** · 08-25-2010, 04:42 AM

Have you considered all other options besides going straight to Deca to cure a little joint issues..

**iGOTstrongBICEPS** · 08-25-2010, 04:47 AM

Originally Posted by HawaiianPride.

Have you considered all other options besides going straight to Deca to cure a little joint issues..

Well, its not like im going to take Deca solely for my joints, im planning my next cycle and i think this would be good to run again.

**iGOTstrongBICEPS** · 08-25-2010, 04:48 AM

Originally Posted by ScotchGuard02

Welcome to the club bro I got the same problem as you. Deca should be take in small doses like 150mg/wk. I'm currently on 125mg/wk of Deca, 125mg/wk of EQ, and 150mg/wk of Test E. It's been 5 weeks and my joints feel better. I'm also seeing a little anabolic results. Very little or no sides. I'm prone to acne and none has shown up. I'm also not looking be a monster either so things are looking good for my joints.

Why are you dosing it so low ?

**TKO Performance** · 08-25-2010, 11:47 AM

First, Deca is not going to be a miracle cure for joints and tendons. It will not take the place of rest, ice, NSAIs, heat, and ultrasound. Those are the best ways to treat an injured tendon. Above all they take a long time to heal. My tendon in my elbow took five months to fully recover.

Deca, EQ, and Anavar may all speed recovery and help repair minor damage by effecting a progesterone modulated increase in collagen synthesis. Basically they boost the production the building blocks needed for connective tissue repair. However if I had to choose between the three I'd go with Anavar due to the much lower chance of side effects, and the decreased severity of those side effects. 50-80mg/day of Anavar would be plenty.

**Nooomoto** · 08-25-2010, 12:30 PM

I always run deca at 500mg/wk during my cycles. If I can find it, I will replace deca with NPP. But, if I can't...I'll continue to use deca in my cycles, it's joint lubricating properties are invaluable.

Keep in mind that deca will only MASK the pain. When you come off, your joints will dry out again and the pain will return, sometimes greater than it was before for a couple weeks.

**TKO Performance** · 08-25-2010, 01:24 PM

It really has nothing to do with increasing water in the joints. You may see some increase in synovial fluid, but if there was a lot you'd actually get pain from that. You are simply better able to repair the minor damage that occurs to these tissues during regular lifiting while taking the Deca . The pain once you come off is almost certainly related to the shift in hormone balance caused as you come off your cycle and enter PCT. If I knew your cycle and PCT protocol I'd be able to tell you exactly why you get the pain and might even be able to advise a change or two that would prevent it.

**Nooomoto** · 08-25-2010, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by TKO Performance

It really has nothing to do with increasing water in the joints. You may see some increase in synovial fluid, but if there was a lot you'd actually get pain from that. You are simply better able to repair the minor damage that occurs to these tissues during regular lifiting while taking the Deca. The pain once you come off is almost certainly related to the shift in hormone balance caused as you come off your cycle and enter PCT. If I knew your cycle and PCT protocol I'd be able to tell you exactly why you get the pain and might even be able to advise a change or two that would prevent it.

Don't mean to hijack this guy's thread. I've had recurring problems with bursitis and tendinitis in my shoulders. My doctor suggested to "stop working out", which is obviously ridiculous, so I stretch a lot and that helps quite a bit. During cycle I use the deca because I lift heavier (powerlifter for sport) during my cycles. Like right now I'm in my 4th week of PCT and my shoulders aren't bothering me to much, the discomfort is minimal.

Anyway my last cycle was as follows:

Test-E: 750mg wks 1-10, 1000mg wks 10-14, 750mg wks 14-16
Deca: 500mg wks 1-14
Anadrol : 100mg/ED wks 1-4

PCT:
Nolvadex : 40mg/ED wks 1-2, 20mg/ED wks 2-4
Clomid: 100mg/ED wks 1-2, 50mg/ED wks-2-4

**TKO Performance** · 08-25-2010, 02:47 PM

I'm sure you know this, but in case anyone ever does a search and needs the info, bursitis is caused by the inflamation of the bursae, which are fluid filled sacs that cushion your joint. They are particularly susceptible to this in ball and socket joints like the hip and shoulder. The shoulder is the worst, because it has the least amount of hard support.

Definitely not working out is foolish. Rest does not help chronic conditions like bursitis and arthritis. In fact just the opposite. I know guys who did construction labor into their 60s and 70s. They had all sorts of maladies like that, but the reason they were able to keep doing it was because they never stopped. They kept everything from stiffening up, losing strength and mobility.

Did you start your PCT right after your cycle ended, or wait two weeks after your last pin?

**Nooomoto** · 08-25-2010, 04:21 PM

Originally Posted by TKO Performance

I'm sure you know this, but in case anyone ever does a search and needs the info, bursitis is caused by the inflamation of the bursae, which are fluid filled sacs that cushion your joint. They are particularly susceptible to this in ball and socket joints like the hip and shoulder. The shoulder is the worst, because it has the least amount of hard support.

Definitely not working out is foolish. Rest does not help chronic conditions like bursitis and arthritis. In fact just the opposite. I know guys who did construction labor into their 60s and 70s. They had all sorts of maladies like that, but the reason they were able to keep doing it was because they never stopped. They kept everything from stiffening up, losing strength and mobility.

Did you start your PCT right after your cycle ended, or wait two weeks after your last pin?

I waited 14 days after my last pin

**Epic Ed** · 08-25-2010, 11:13 PM

I have osteoarthritis in my knees and the pain varies from mild to considerable. I ran deca at 300mg EW for 12 weeks (along with test cyp) specifically to see if it would help with the knee pain and the relief from the pain was considerable. I don't understand the mechanism for why it works, but I have tried every conventional remedy available -- physical therapy, relafen at maximum dose ED, corticosteroid injections, synthetic fluid injections (two different type), a brace, and topical ointments. Nothing brought me relief for any significant period of time. Deca was a game changer for me. I took 10 weeks off from deca just to see how the knees would feel after coming off cycle and the pain has returned but to a lesser degree on most days. I'll be running it at 200mg starting Saturday to see how the joints respond at that dose for 12 weeks. I may just end up cycling the stuff on a regular basis with my TRT.

**ScotchGuard02** · 08-25-2010, 11:40 PM

HawaiianPride makes a really good point about jumping right into AAS for joint problems. I'm 50 and I've done a lot of contraindicated joint sport like wrestling, BJJ, kickboxing, since I was 11. My joints are plain worn out. I don't want to do a knee replacement yet or a hip replacement. They don't last but 10 to 15 years so when I'm 60 or 65 I have to get new metal put in me. So for the last 10 years I have been using glucosamine, MSM, Cissus, and other supplements. I've gotten anti-inflammatory from my doc to keep the swelling down. Hasn't been too much fun. I've turned to AAS after much research. I take a low dosage because a lot of the thing I read says that both Deca and EQ will build collagen in the joints at low dosage. As the dosage increase and the anabolic affect become more pronounced there is less collagen buildup in the joints. Same with the Test. Higher dose like 500mg/wk tend to dry out the collagen in the joints. Thus my low dosage. This cycle is specifically designed to enhance my joints. So far so good. There is a point where it's simply too late to regenerate collagen. Dang, I think I'm there. I've been bone to bone in my knee and hip for years. I'm hoping that there will be some collagen buildup in the joints. I'm looking for ANY collagen in there. LOL

**TKO Performance** · 08-26-2010, 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by Nooomoto

I waited 14 days after my last pin

Did you stop all steroids at the same time as your last pin?

**TKO Performance** · 08-26-2010, 01:59 PM

Originally Posted by ScotchGuard02

HawaiianPride makes a really good point about jumping right into AAS for joint problems. I'm 50 and I've done a lot of contraindicated joint sport like wrestling, BJJ, kickboxing, since I was 11. My joints are plain worn out. I don't want to do a knee replacement yet or a hip replacement. They don't last but 10 to 15 years so when I'm 60 or 65 I have to get new metal put in me. So for the last 10 years I have been using glucosamine, MSM, Cissus, and other supplements. I've gotten anti-inflammatory from my doc to keep the swelling down. Hasn't been too much fun. I've turned to AAS after much research. I take a low dosage because a lot of the thing I read says that both Deca and EQ will build collagen in the joints at low dosage. As the dosage increase and the anabolic affect become more pronounced there is less collagen buildup in the joints. Same with the Test. Higher dose like 500mg/wk tend to dry out the collagen in the joints. Thus my low dosage. This cycle is specifically designed to enhance my joints. So far so good. There is a point where it's simply too late to regenerate collagen. Dang, I think I'm there. I've been bone to bone in my knee and hip for years. I'm hoping that there will be some collagen buildup in the joints. I'm looking for ANY collagen in there. LOL

The new generation of hip and knee replacements will last a lot longer than 10-15 years. They are more like 25-30. There have been major advances in materials over the last couple of years. My great grandmother had a knee done (early style too) and it lasted her a good 25 years, but she wasn't trying to push the limits either.

There is ongoing research into regrowing cartillidge. Results on race horses has been promising, but human trials are probably five-ten years away. They are creating a small circle of grafted new material in a couple places on the miniscus. It's very cool stuff, hopefully it's available soon.

**Nooomoto** · 08-26-2010, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by TKO Performance

Did you stop all steroids at the same time as your last pin?

No, the deca I stopped 2 weeks before my last pin, and the anadrol I stopped in the 4th week.

**TKO Performance** · 08-26-2010, 02:41 PM

Okay, that makes it easy. You were still experiencing the effects of the test for a month after you stopped the Deca . Test will degrade in part to DHT, which competes with progesterone at the receptor. Without the Deca to counteract this you started to get a slowdown in collagen synthesis. As the test was falling off after your last pin you were also getting a decrease in estrogen, which helps reduce joint soreness as well. That's almost certainly why you experienced the joint pain.

To counteract this I'd recommend taking the Deca up until your last pin, start later if needed to keep cycle length in check. You could also substitute Anavar and run it right up until you start your PCT. Hold that to a max of 8 weeks though. That should help keep you pain free.

**Nooomoto** · 08-26-2010, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by TKO Performance

Okay, that makes it easy. You were still experiencing the effects of the test for a month after you stopped the Deca . Test will degrade in part to DHT, which competes with progesterone at the receptor. Without the Deca to counteract this you started to get a slowdown in collagen synthesis. As the test was falling off after your last pin you were also getting a decrease in estrogen, which helps reduce joint soreness as well. That's almost certainly why you experienced the joint pain.

To counteract this I'd recommend taking the Deca up until your last pin, start later if needed to keep cycle length in check. You could also substitute Anavar and run it right up until you start your PCT. Hold that to a max of 8 weeks though. That should help keep you pain free.

Interesting. Thanks for the insight.

**Lifeguard102** · 08-26-2010, 02:48 PM

I have bone spurs and arthritis in both shoulders.
When I take deca it is 400mg a week split in two doses.

I have taken deca with and without test.
When I took it without test I never had any erectile dys.

I have taken var at 50-100mg ED and had severe joint pain.
This is contradictory to most but again my personal experience.

I take Gluc/chon + Fish oil caps ED
I also take tart cherry
I would try these first if you haven't already.

Just my exp.
Life

**TKO Performance** · 08-26-2010, 03:50 PM

My guess is the Anavar you got was Winstrol . That's all too common, because unscrupulous sellers can make a ton of money on it. The effects are about the same, except for the joint pain.