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  1. #1
    Badgers's Avatar
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    Looking for help and suggestions.

    Hello

    Me and my friend have now come to the place where we think were ready to take on our first cycle, we have been following a strict diet the past 7 months and have a pretty decent workout routine wich we are comfortable with. We have been reading around the web the past couple of months looking for newbie advice and found alot of helpfull advice here, i have also read most of Anabolics 2006 and have a decent understanding of what we are about to do. However i could not find any answeres on dosage/pct(if even necessary), also if we realy need to use both preparates at the same time or if one could be more then enough for a beginner. When it comes to our expectations for the cycle, we both agree that getting the biggest we possibly can isn't our goal. But to get a little bigger and defined preferably.

    We are going to run with:
    Nandrobolin-250
    Testosterone Enanthate -250

    We got 30 ml of each substance.(Each of us)

    And here comes my list of questions:

    -What dosage and when to insert it?
    -Do we need both the test and deca ?
    -PCT-i know what it is, but several of the enlisted substances is hard to come by for us. And after alot of research i can't realy say if i even want to use some of them, less alone need to use them.
    -We wan't to use the lowest dosage possible.

    Other tips are REALY welcome!

    I wan't to thank the community for awsome information, and think of it: you have probably saved alot of hurting themselves, if not even lives!

    [i applogize for my typos, english is not my native language and i never had any english classes]

    Thanks in advance!

  2. #2
    FuzzyPeaches o.O's Avatar
    FuzzyPeaches o.O is offline Senior Member
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    We need to know more... Age, Height, weight, bf, stats etc... Also, I can tell you that as far as your research goes it has not been very thorough. Reason I say this is that alot of your questions could be answered here with a little effort.

  3. #3
    Badgers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FuzzyPeaches o.O View Post
    We need to know more... Age, Height, weight, bf, stats etc... Also, I can tell you that as far as your research goes it has not been very thorough. Reason I say this is that alot of your questions could be answered here with a little effort.
    Thanks for the quick response!

    Age: 30
    BF: around 12% (same bf %)
    Weigth: 87 kg(training partner 78 kg)
    Heigth:182 cm(we both have the same heigth)
    As for stats i'm unsure of what you wan't to know, we are both pretty lean and have a decent ammount of muscle tho neither of us look like bodybuilders.

    Our training scedual is:
    Brazilian Ju-Jitsu 2 days a week for an hour and a half.
    4-5 days of wheigth lifting(wheter we feel the need for a rest day)
    We have followed Hugo Rivera's traing program for about a year, and Arnolds level 2 program for about 7 months. We have tweaked the program to suit us individualy ofcourse, and have gotten to the stage where we implement some advanced tecniques to our sessions.

    I'm sorry if youfeel that my reaserch wasn't sufficient, however the more i read the more complicated my question becomes. So i just simplified them and put them out here, not cause i'm to lazy to look for answers. Cause i know what recomended dosages for the substances a week is ( like the test would be 200-800mg's according to anabolics 2006). But rather how would i take both of them and stack, or would simply using one or the other be sufficient for a firsttimer not wanting to overdo anything? And when it comes to pct, i have read both that it would be a smart idea. And another article saying that there realy wans't any proof that it works besides some research of hiv patients taken some years ago. And the results from that research wasn't unambiguous.

  4. #4
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    why not just go with the test for your first cycle and see how it goes for you...if you run both at the same time you will never no whats causing any side effects you may be experiencing cus you have no experience with eather to compare it too...so i would not stack them save the deca for later, its a compound most wouldent recomend for a first cycle...good luck if you choose to do it...

  5. #5
    Badgers's Avatar
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    http://www.steroid.com/novicecycle3.php

    Has both the substances i have in it, but does not say how much Nandrolone Decanoate to take pr week. And using some Nolvadex while on. Would 250 mg with Nandrolone be ok pr week? And just to clear it up Nandrobolin-250 mg means 250 mg pr ml rigth?

    Thanks in advance.

  6. #6
    scotty51312's Avatar
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    You dont' wanna run nolvadex while on. Research "Arimidex " Most on here use a standard PCT of a reverse pyramid dosage of Nolvadex and Clomid (both area available on the sponsor site www.ar-r.com) I agree with boyd that if anything you should run 500mg of long estered test. But definitley research more into PCT. Just use the search button on here there are thousands of threads on PCT.

  7. #7
    MBMETC's Avatar
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    Listen to ghetto,
    you wil be running two different compounds that can produce two different types of sides, that need to be treated differently.
    For example hair loss on test can combated using proscar however nandrlone which is considered safe on hair when useing proscar can result in more hair loss than with testostarone alone. That is just one example, not to mention gyno...
    Please read about each compound,their sides,and how to treat them and you will make a more educated decision..
    By the way you say you dont want to get huge but your cycle is a bulking cycle that van produce i would think up to 30lbs...some one may be able to back me up on this.
    Think about a test only cycle for your first,done correctly you should not be dissapointed so long as diet and training are on point.
    Good luck.

  8. #8
    Badgers's Avatar
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    Ok i'll venture deeper into the world of pct on just test enanthate alone then, thanks for the help so far. Appritiated!!!

  9. #9
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    Side note 250mg's of either supstance, imo is not enough. Test only 400-500mg's per week 8-12 weeks should do ya

  10. #10
    FuzzyPeaches o.O's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MBMETC View Post
    Side note 250mg's of either supstance, imo is not enough. Test only 400-500mg's per week 8-12 weeks should do ya
    I agree with what has already been said. Since you are both virgins 500 test/wk will yield great results and it leaves you with room for new experiences down the road. Also, as Ghetto pointed out once you know how you respond to test by itself it becomes easier to add to it and have a better understanding of how to reverse sides when/if they show up.

  11. #11
    Badgers's Avatar
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    Read up a bit and came to the conclusion that this migth be a good pct for us:
    Week Nolvadex HCG Aromasin Vitamin E
    1 20mgs/day 500iu/day 20-25mgs/day 1000iu/day
    2 20mgs/day 500iu/day 20-25mgs/day 1000iu/day
    3 20mgs/day 500iu/day 20-25mgs/day 1000iu/day
    4 20mgs/day 20-25mgs/day
    5 20mgs/day 20-25mgs/day
    6 20mgs/day

    I can be almost 100% sure that i can't get hold of all of these things, vitamin E is the only thing i'm sure of (lol).

    If i can't get hold of these things what would you recomend that i do?
    I could not find out anything on when to start this pct after using test enanthate , found something on a norwegian site claiming that some wait for over 3 weeks before they start after the last shot.

  12. #12
    MBMETC's Avatar
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    Read test beginner cycle....it sums it up

  13. #13
    FuzzyPeaches o.O's Avatar
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    Aromasin is an AI and not a good choice for PCT. Since test e is a long ester most wait 2 to 3 weeks after last inj for PCT.

  14. #14
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    6 weeks is a long PCT. How bout this
    Week one Nolva 40mg Clomid 100mg
    Week two Nolva 20mg Clomid 50mg
    week three Nolva 20mg Clomid 50mg
    week four Nolva 20 mg Clomid 50mg

    You can order these from the sponsor site. (www.ar-r.com) All legit legal "research" chemicals
    test E is you would start PCT 14days after your last injection

  15. #15
    Badgers's Avatar
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    Ok, i live in Norway and can't find out if it's legal to import nolva and clomid from the sponsor site

    Anyway, thanks for the quick and good replyes. If it's legal we will most def order it from the sponsor site and run:
    Week one Nolva 40mg Clomid 100mg
    Week two Nolva 20mg Clomid 50mg
    week three Nolva 20mg Clomid 50mg
    week four Nolva 20 mg Clomid 50mg

  16. #16
    FuzzyPeaches o.O's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badgers View Post
    Ok, i live in Norway and can't find out if it's legal to import nolva and clomid from the sponsor site

    Anyway, thanks for the quick and good replyes. If it's legal we will most def order it from the sponsor site and run:
    Week one Nolva 40mg Clomid 100mg
    Week two Nolva 20mg Clomid 50mg
    week three Nolva 20mg Clomid 50mg
    week four Nolva 20 mg Clomid 50mg
    You should not have any troubles getting them shipped to you.

  17. #17
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    I can get my hands on:
    EuroPharma/DanLab Nolvadex 20mg tablets, guess that covers the Nolva part.
    Now i'm fishing around for some clomid.

  18. #18
    scotty51312's Avatar
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    Dude, Just click on the banner at the top right corner (www.ar-r.com) has everything you need for PCT in liquid oral form

  19. #19
    Badgers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scotty51312 View Post
    Dude, Just click on the banner at the top right corner (www.ar-r.com) has everything you need for PCT in liquid oral form
    Yeah it would be awsome, but untill i get entirely sure it's legal for me to import these things into Norway i'll wait.

    I wan't this to be a nice experience and wouldn't wan't to get busted if you catch my drift^^

  20. #20
    Badgers's Avatar
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    Hello aigain guys.
    I gave it some thougths and went ahead and ordered Nolva and Clomid from the sponsor site, i wan't it to be a good experience and not having a good pct ready would probably be the worst thing i could do. If the order dosen't make it across the border, i can get hold of Nolva domesticly as a backup plan.
    We will follow scotty51312's suggestion on our PCT.

    We are going for 400mg of test enanthate pr week for 8 weeks, and are preparing for our first injection today.

    Anyone have any last minute tips?

    Thanks in advance.

  21. #21
    FuzzyPeaches o.O's Avatar
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    Yes, test e is a long ester. Meaning it will take 4-5 weeks to fully kick in, I would run it for at least 10 wks.

  22. #22
    Badgers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FuzzyPeaches o.O View Post
    Yes, test e is a long ester. Meaning it will take 4-5 weeks to fully kick in, I would run it for at least 10 wks.
    Noted.

    We are planning on doing 1 injection pr. week, i have read the guide here to injecting a few weeks ago but i can't find it after looking around for one hour, am i blind?(lol)

    And just to clarify a thing i'm 99% sure of, if i for example have a 10 ml bottle of test enanthate -250. THis does infact mean that it's 250 mg pr. ml of liquid?
    And to set 400mg once a week that would ammount to 1,6 ml?

    Thanks for answering my anoying questions guys, greatly appritiated!

    I'll start a tread on the cycle forums once i've gotten some results and pictures to put up there, doing a full body measurment/photos/BF measurment/weiging to have accurate stats before/during/after the body is back to normal.

  23. #23
    Badgers's Avatar
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    Oh another thing i forgot to ask about, would it be a brigth idea to have nolvadex incase of gyno starting to appear?

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badgers View Post
    Oh another thing i forgot to ask about, would it be a brigth idea to have nolvadex incase of gyno starting to appear?
    Ok, I'll answer this 1st. You should already have it on hand `cuz it should be a part of your PCT, and yes it is also good to have for the other reason mentioned.

    Next if you are going to run 400mg of test e /wk, personally, I would do an inj every 3.5 days just to keep things level. Yes its a long ester and yes it is possible to inj every 7 days, but I look at it this way: Every 3.5 days could be better than every 7 days, 7 days in no way could be better than every 3.5 days.

    Finally if you have a 10ml bottle of 250 test e that is correct, it has 250mg per ml. So I would take 0.8ml Sunday morning and another 0.8ml Wednesday night for 400mg/wk.

  25. #25
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    agreed test e minimum 2xper week

  26. #26
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    Thanks for the reply's, so we decided to take two shots pr week as recomended. Took the first shot yesterday and boy does our thigh's feel funny hehe. After some reading around i found out that this is a common thing for a newbie to experience.

    The only thing that sux a bit is that i don't know if i can train with it, and on wedensday it's time for the second shot and then both legs will be stale^^

    I found that beeing more steady on the hand could help, we are using a 21g-1 1/2 gage needel. Cold we use a smaller one? And would that give us less discomfort in the following days? When you get the hang of it, does it still get stale and sore?

    I have to point out that we have no swelling, no change in skincolor. And the injections wen't greate, like a drop of blood after we pulled it out.

    We did it like this:
    -Sterilized the whole jar, and specialy the top where you draw liquid from.
    -Had a shower just before we started w/o drying or getting in contact with anything at the injection site.
    -Filled the syringe then disposed and swapped the needel with a new one.
    -Got the air out of the syringe and made sure there was one drop running down the needle for lubrication.
    -Desterilized the area of injection(quads).
    -Entered the needle and waited 10 seconds.
    -Carefully pulled it back a tiny bit to se if we hit a vein for about 10 sec.
    -Injected 0.8 ml in 10 seconds(taking good time).
    -Waited 10 seconds then removed the needle in a slow but firm movment.
    -Desterlized the area aigain and put on a compress.

    Does this sound rigth?

    Thanks in advance aigain:-)

  27. #27
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    Ok next time try it this way.
    1. Warm the oil by leaving the vial under running hot water (not to hot) just above body temp 105-110)
    2 Sterilize just as you did before
    3 Use one pin to draw
    4 Change pins to inject
    5 Sterilize the injection area
    6 ASPIRATE , then Inject slowly ( usually take about 15-20 seconds per ML)
    7 Leave the needle in for about 10 seconds
    8. Remove the needle
    9. Massage the injection with a good ammount of pressure for 5 minutes.
    10. Do some sort of quick excersise using the muscle you injected. (example when i inject delts i have some light dumbells that i do a quick set of 20 arnolds with just to get blood to that injection site and help break up the oil)
    11. The following morning, especially for a training day, take 800mg of Ibuprofen

  28. #28
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    Ok, thank you scotty.

  29. #29
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    Today my leg finaly feels ok after sundays injection, but my friend's thigh has swollen up a bit, but has no color change and isn't feeling warm around the injection site.

    I did a bit of reaserch myself but found out it would be best to ask here anyway.

    Should he just wait it out? Since it's not red and hot does't this mean it's probably just that the pin wasn't held still enough or maybe the oil haven't dispersed enough yet?.

    Thanks in advance.

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