Iraq vet newb with a few questions, any advice appreciated

**Johnx2** · 08-28-2010, 11:32 PM

Hey guys I just recently joined up on the forums here after getting back from my second tour in Iraq and am interested in putting on some mass because that was practically impossible while stationed out there. Ok I have a few questions and I would greatly appreciate you guys responses and sharing your experience and knowledge with a newbie like myself. I've read up on the newbie faq's about cycling and PCT and am fairly comfortable and familiar with most of that info but I wanted to ask a couple other questions.

I have a buddy who goes to a hormone replacement clinic place and they provide him with legal test cypionate for a big price(he has a Dr.'s prescription for it and everything but he pays a lot). Now I was curious about it and went in for the free consultation and was told if I paid the hefty fee I could get a 10 week supply of test cypionate so I asked if they offered any other drugs to prevent estrogen-related side effects or any type of other drugs to get my body's own test-producing machinery a boost after the 10 week cycle when my body is at that vulnerable time when I'm not injected more test and my own natural test production hasn't caught up yet and they said no. They told me that they don't offer that and it wasn't necessary as I would slowly be tapered off the test. Now that didn't sit well with me because it basically went against everything I had been reading in my research online. I know I shouldn't go by what they say and just take test cypionate alone and nothing else and then just taper off of it slowly without PCT so what do you guys suggest as a basic, standard PCT for taking test and what could I stack the test cyp with? Winny?

Another concern I've had is about ordering my PCT drugs online and I wanted to know about where a reliable and dependable place to order from would be, like what site? I guess I'm just mainly worried about ordering them online and never receiving anything or hearing back from the place I ordered from. Any suggestions? Once again any advice or shedding of light on my questions and concerns would be greatly appreciated, thanks in advance.

**BennyLom** · 08-29-2010, 01:00 AM

Hey John,
While I personally have no problem with it, please note you're on a website accessible from around the globe and not everybody shares the US world perceptions or approach to foreign policy and I think it's irrelevant to your question whether you fought a war or not. Perhaps have some sensitivity and leave that stuff out. Besides, I wouldn't bore you with saying I'm software engineer (not political but still irrelevant).

Anyways, unless you have testosterone deficiency you don't need a clinic for treatment plan --assuming they are not prescribing dosages for recreational/sports purposes, right. If they do indeed supply you with adequate amounts then while the cost is high, the upside is also that you get it legally and that you get pharmaceutical grade product (any of those two variables and I would go with this option). Again, if this is the case, then I would simply persist in my discussion with them ("educate" them) or I would bring that prescription and talk about the supporting (and PCT) drugs with another doctor.

Also with regards to PCT, a lot of members suggest the sites sponsor for supplies.

**iCookie** · 08-29-2010, 06:25 AM

I don't see how cycling steroids is relevant to having been in a war.

**PistolStarta** · 08-29-2010, 08:06 AM

Originally Posted by iCookie

I don't see how cycling steroids is relevant to having been in a war.

wat?

**scotty51312** · 08-29-2010, 08:57 AM

Ok reguardless of military status or background the guy is looking for help. John Post your stats and we'll get you the answers you need.
age?
height?
weight?
bodyfat%
Training experience?

**FuzzyPeaches o.O** · 08-29-2010, 09:02 AM

ar-r .com is one of this sites sponsors (banner is the one at the top left) and they provide PCT substances for research purposes only.

**Johnx2** · 08-29-2010, 06:22 PM

Didn't know people were so sensitive lol, those getting bent out of shape about me mentioning serving in Iraq do nothing more than bring a smile to my face. Ok about my stats I'm about 5'7" weigh about 150 now because of all the running I'd do regularly in the military but am very lean and have about an 8% bodyfat. Any advice would be appreciated and if you just want to reply to mention how it bothered you that I mentioned I served in the military then don't bother posting in the thread at all. I'm seeking advice and help not your opinion on the war or anything else.

**Johnx2** · 08-29-2010, 06:25 PM

Also I've been training for over 7 yrs and am 27 yrs. old, thanks to anyone who replies with advice and help.

**FuzzyPeaches o.O** · 08-29-2010, 06:35 PM

John I for one would like to thank you for your service to our country! I have no idea why others have their panties in a bunch, but thats not our concern. To answer your question taking test alone is a great idea, especially if this is your 1st time. If you decide to take test and winny (like you suggested) and start to get sides, depending on what sides you get, you wont know which is causing it. I also agree having no AIs on hand while on cycle is a bad move. Also, having something on hand for PCT is insurance in case "tapering" doesnt bring your blood work back to norm.

So take my suggestion from above and visit our sponsor.

**Johnx2** · 08-29-2010, 07:19 PM

Originally Posted by FuzzyPeaches o.O

John I for one would like to thank you for your service to our country! I have no idea why others have their panties in a bunch, but thats not our concern. To answer your question taking test alone is a great idea, especially if this is your 1st time. If you decide to take test and winny (like you suggested) and start to get sides, depending on what sides you get, you wont know which is causing it. I also agree having no AIs on hand while on cycle is a bad move. Also, having something on hand for PCT is insurance in case "tapering" doesnt bring your blood work back to norm.

So take my suggestion from above and visit our sponsor.

Thanks for the advice man, I appreciate it. I guess I'll just cycle with the Test cypionate to start since it is my first one. Ok I wanted to follow this basic PCT I found in a very helpful and informative FAQ for newbs I came across:

HCG
2 Weeks Before End of Cycle: HCG @ 500IUs 3 times a week
1 Week Before End of Cycle: HCG @ 500IUs 3 times a week
First Week Post-Cycle: HCG @ 500IUs 2 times a week

Clomid
Day 1 Post Cycle: Clomid @ 300mg
Days 2-14: Clomid @ 100mg every day
Days 15-28: Clomid @ 50mg every day

Nolva
Days 1-28: Nolva @ 20mg every day

I found the Clomid on the Ar-r site but don't know about where to find the HCG and Nolva and I know this is a beginner question but I'm unsure of the syringes/gages I would need for these, any suggestions? Should I be taking AI's during the Test cycle also or just take the HCG, Clomid, and Nolva post-cycle according to the PCT above?

**FuzzyPeaches o.O** · 08-29-2010, 07:44 PM

John the Nolva can be found on ar-r its the tamoxifen aka nolva. Also, if it were me in your shoes I would forget about the HCG and just get the clomid and tamox. Plus you are going overboard with the dosages, if you need to run a PCT I would do Tamox at 40/20/20/20 and clomid 100/50/50/25. Thats amt per day/weekly.

Having the nolva is also good in case estro is an issue. But I would only run it during the cycle if it is needed.

**Johnx2** · 08-29-2010, 08:08 PM

Originally Posted by FuzzyPeaches o.O

John the Nolva can be found on ar-r its the tamoxifen aka nolva. Also, if it were me in your shoes I would forget about the HCG and just get the clomid and tamox. Plus you are going overboard with the dosages, if you need to run a PCT I would do Tamox at 40/20/20/20 and clomid 100/50/50/25. Thats amt per day/weekly.

Having the nolva is also good in case estro is an issue. But I would only run it during the cycle if it is needed.

Ok got it, since I'll be doing a Test cyp only cycle, should I begin the 4 week PCT you recommended about 2 weeks after my last Test injection since it's a long-acting ester? Also I hope this wouldn't happen but since you mentioned only using the Nolva during the cycle if Estro became an issue how much Nolva would I use if it became necessary while on cycle? Hope I'm not flooding you with too many questions at once but I'm anxious to learn as much as I can from someone more experienced before I begin.

**FuzzyPeaches o.O** · 08-29-2010, 08:15 PM

IF you have to use nolva on cycle I would use 20mg/day for the 1st week and then 10mg ed there after. Yes 14 days after last inj is the average for cyp regarding PCT. However, if they are going to "taper" I would have blood work done prior to see if it is even needed (PCT that is). My guess is that it will be though.

**Johnx2** · 08-29-2010, 08:45 PM

Originally Posted by FuzzyPeaches o.O

IF you have to use nolva on cycle I would use 20mg/day for the 1st week and then 10mg ed there after. Yes 14 days after last inj is the average for cyp regarding PCT. However, if they are going to "taper" I would have blood work done prior to see if it is even needed (PCT that is). My guess is that it will be though.

Ok, I think I should be all set now with the cycle info. Thanks again sincerely for answering my questions/concerns. One last thing, I noticed the different syringes/needles/filters section on Ar-r .com and was wondering about what gauges/needles I would need to use.

**ScotchGuard02** · 08-30-2010, 05:04 AM

500 mg/wk of Test Cyp or 500 mg/wk of Test E, wait 3 weeks, do your PCT. If you're doing a lot of running make sure you have the diet to back up your gain or you'll lose most of it after PCT. Good luck bro.

**NattyR1** · 08-30-2010, 06:22 AM

remember to add compounds one by one that way you know which compounds give you which side effects. start with test only. good luck and thanks.

**Johnx2** · 08-30-2010, 11:18 AM

Thanks for all the help guys. What's the best possible way to keep as much of my gains as possible after PCT? I also usually eat pretty clean and have an 8% bodyfat so I intend to to stick with my basic eating guidelines but relax a little as far as taking in some more calories to maximize gains. How can I make the most of my Test Cyp cycle as far as lean mass gains go? I want to put on lean size and try to keep the majority of it post-cycle, the last thing I want is to work really hard and look great on cycle only to return to my pre-cycle size within a few months.

**FuzzyPeaches o.O** · 08-30-2010, 11:25 AM

John search is your friend!

AAS- Tips on keeping gains for the moderate user

**Pac Man** · 08-30-2010, 11:27 AM

I wouldn't run Nolva on cycle personally. I prefer armidex aka liquidex for estrogen control.
I doubt you'll need aromasin but it's good to keep on hand in case you have major estro issues.

**Johnx2** · 08-30-2010, 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by FuzzyPeaches o.O

John search is your friend!

AAS- Tips on keeping gains for the moderate user

Thanks man, that was a great read

**Johnx2** · 08-30-2010, 11:37 AM

So far for PCT I've got clomid and tamox. When does HCG truly become necessary for PCT?

**FuzzyPeaches o.O** · 08-30-2010, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by Johnx2

So far for PCT I've got clomid and tamox. When does HCG truly become necessary for PCT?

It doesnt. HCGs true purpose is to ramp up your system for PCT. You will always take HCG before your PCT.

**Johnx2** · 08-30-2010, 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by FuzzyPeaches o.O

It doesnt. HCGs true purpose is to ramp up your system for PCT. You will always take HCG before your PCT.

For the purposes of this Test cycle you said I should just leave out the HCG prior to PCT right? Is that because this isn't too heavy a cycle man?

**FuzzyPeaches o.O** · 08-30-2010, 04:53 PM

Originally Posted by Johnx2

For the purposes of this Test cycle you said I should just leave out the HCG prior to PCT right? Is that because this isn't too heavy a cycle man?

Thats right..

**Johnx2** · 08-31-2010, 03:34 PM

I'll let you know how much of the prescription-grade Test Cyp they end up telling me to take at the HRT hormone place but regardless of that should 500 mg/week of the Test Cyp alone for 10 weeks be enough to get me solid results?(of course with me doing my part as far as training hard, increased caloric intake, and sufficient rest go). I know that with increased dosages come increased risk of sides, is 500 mg/wk about the average dosage for this type of cycle? Not too high risk for Estro-related sides in other words?

**Johnx2** · 09-01-2010, 04:52 PM

Can somebody who knows please reply to my last post, thanks I'd really appreciate it. Don't mean to ask this much but I'm anxious to learn.

**FuzzyPeaches o.O** · 09-01-2010, 04:56 PM

Originally Posted by Johnx2

I'll let you know how much of the prescription-grade Test Cyp they end up telling me to take at the HRT hormone place but regardless of that should 500 mg/week of the Test Cyp alone for 10 weeks be enough to get me solid results?(of course with me doing my part as far as training hard, increased caloric intake, and sufficient rest go). I know that with increased dosages come increased risk of sides, is 500 mg/wk about the average dosage for this type of cycle? Not too high risk for Estro-related sides in other words?

John its impossible to say sides on test start occuring at xxx mgs cuz every1 is different. Yes, anyone who runs test for 10 wks @ 500/wk will get solid gains, assuming everything else is in order (diet, training, etc). I doubt you will have to worry about estro but I would ALWAYS have AIs on hand just in case.

**Johnx2** · 09-01-2010, 05:03 PM

Originally Posted by FuzzyPeaches o.O

John its impossible to say sides on test start occuring at xxx mgs cuz every1 is different. Yes, anyone who runs test for 10 wks @ 500/wk will get solid gains, assuming everything else is in order (diet, training, etc). I doubt you will have to worry about estro but I would ALWAYS have AIs on hand just in case.

Thanks for all your help and patience man. I received the research pct tamox and clomi already, I feel kinda dumb for asking about needles and syringe gauges after opening the package

**FuzzyPeaches o.O** · 09-01-2010, 05:05 PM

There are tons of posts about needles and muscle groups.. Do a few searches and they will straighten you out..

**Johnx2** · 09-01-2010, 05:16 PM

Ok this is my last question, you mentioned having AI's on hand if Estro became an issue, would you recommend something like liquidex, which is listed as an AI on Ar-r or should I be fine with just using some SERM like the tamox during the cycle at 20 mg then 10 mg until the Estro issues would go away like you previously suggested?

**FuzzyPeaches o.O** · 09-01-2010, 05:19 PM

For this one tamox 'should' be fine. Personally I always have aromasin on hand to knock estro out of the park if need be.

**scotty51312** · 09-01-2010, 05:20 PM

Use liquidex first if you get any symptoms. tamox might hinder your gains

**Johnx2** · 09-01-2010, 05:38 PM

Originally Posted by scotty51312

Use liquidex first if you get any symptoms. tamox might hinder your gains

If Estro sides did arise how much of an AI like liquidex or aromasin would I need to take while still on cycle? How much would you take if you started to get sides on cycle just to stop the sides while still working on gains effectively?

**scotty51312** · 09-01-2010, 05:42 PM

if you start getting symptoms take .5mg of liquidex daily. symptoms persist get back on here and let someone know

**Johnx2** · 09-01-2010, 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by scotty51312

if you start getting symptoms take .5mg of liquidex daily. symptoms persist get back on here and let someone know

Cool, thanks man and if I had the stronger AI aromasin on hand instead of liquidex how much daily?

**FuzzyPeaches o.O** · 09-01-2010, 05:57 PM

Originally Posted by Johnx2

Cool, thanks man and if I had the stronger AI aromasin on hand instead of liquidex how much daily?

Aromasin (Exemestane) : This drug is classified as a Type I Suicide AI. It binds to the aromatase enzyme and kills it. It is effective at lowering estrogen up to 85%. Once again, you have to watch out for your cholesterol levels. Used mainly for cutting when low estrogen levels are desired. Aromasin is shown to help bone density. Clinical doses are about 25mg a day, but it has been shown that as little as 2.5mg a day can be as effective.

**Johnx2** · 09-01-2010, 06:05 PM

Originally Posted by FuzzyPeaches o.O

Aromasin (Exemestane) : This drug is classified as a Type I Suicide AI. It binds to the aromatase enzyme and kills it. It is effective at lowering estrogen up to 85%. Once again, you have to watch out for your cholesterol levels. Used mainly for cutting when low estrogen levels are desired. Aromasin is shown to help bone density. Clinical doses are about 25mg a day, but it has been shown that as little as 2.5mg a day can be as effective.

Thanks again man, I've ordered it just for the peace of mind. I'll be careful with the cholesterol levels since the Test program I'm on will come with regular blood testing/Dr.'s visits included so if anything should be going wrong with cholesterol or liver function I'll find out pretty quick, definitely looking forward to this cycle and I feel a lot more prepared to make the most of it and informed thanks to your help and the others that have replied to share knowledge and experience.