whats safer for a first cycle? ph or AAS?

[bbh90]

a cycle of h-drol like this
h-drol
50/75/75/75/75

support sups
NAC and liv52
(possible saw pawlameto)
hawthorn berry

PCT
nolva
30/20/10/10/5
bioforge

or an AAS cycle like this

Cycle Plan
Week 1-10 Test Enth 250mg E3D
Week 1-12 Adex 0.25mg EOD (reduce to 0.125mg EOD in last week) Optional Ancilliaries

incase of any issues
Week 1-12 Nolva 20mg/d if gyno symptoms start to show
Week 1-10 Caber 0.5mg 2x/w if you are having prolactin issues
Week 3-10 HCG 250iu 3x/w prevent nuts from shrinking make recovery easier

PCT
Week 13 Nolva 20mg 2x/d
Week 14-16 Nolva 20mg/d

what do you guys think would be easier on my endocrine system and everything for a first cycle? as well which do you think it would be easier to retain all gains i dont plan to do a bunch of cycles

[HawaiianPride.]

Welcome.

Stats...

age
weight
height
bf
years training consistently
goals with these cycles

[bbh90]

lol sorry i just started this account cuz its hard to find a functioning forum on steroids

im 5 9 1/2 and 170 about 8-9% bodyfat i have 7 years of training under my belt and a very good diet and routine i like the max ot routine and my diet i get 3000 cals a day with 1 cheat day every week my macros are right around protein 290 carbs 270 and fat 60

and my goal with wanting to do a cycle is to add some mass to my frame i have tried a lot of different approaches in my years training bulking cutting lean gains high volume super setting max ot ect and i have found for myself so far the most effective is the max ot routine and lean gains are the best for me i bulked up to 190-195 and cut and once i got to about 10 or 11% bodyfat i was 170 and now im 170 about 8-9% bodyfat im not a real big believer in doing big bulks but im getting off topic

basically i want to go beyond my natural potential i dont think that ppl ever truely have a barrier stopping them from making ANY more gains but i think that there comes a point where gains become very slow and the point where my gains have become very slow is at a point that i do like my body and everything but it isnt quiet my goal physique i want to gain around 10-15 pounds of muscle and lose about 1 or 2 percent bodyfat and from there on out try to make more gains but im sure it will be hard to maintain a body above my natural limit anyway so ill be trying to make small lean gains as well as maintaining


EDIT this is what im workin with right now

[HawaiianPride.]

Okay here's my opinion. I strongly believe you can add more weight naturally. Your just shy of 5'10 and only 170lbs. Your macros you've displayed look okay, but before thinking steroids is the only way out isn't the wisest of considerations. Before thinking all else is failed, perhaps tweaking your diet a bit. Up those macros and see how things pan out. Consider how much rest you are getting a night. Inadequate sleep plays a significant roll in hindered gains.

You left out thing out - Age.

[bbh90]

Okay here's my opinion. I strongly believe you can add more weight naturally. Your just shy of 5'10 and only 170lbs. Your macros you've displayed look okay, but before thinking steroids is the only way out isn't the wisest of considerations. Before thinking all else is failed, perhaps tweaking your diet a bit. Up those macros and see how things pan out. Consider how much rest you are getting a night. Inadequate sleep plays a significant roll in hindered gains.

You left out thing out - Age.

i always make sure to get 8 hours of sleep a night and for the most part i usually just see fat gains with upped macros from my experience that is maybe i need to try upping the macros and keeping them there for long i always notice after my cheat day i look amazing

im 20

[HawaiianPride.]

You are too young to cycle precursors to anabolics or anabolics themselves.

Read:http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=367187

In the meantime, keep up with the nutrition and training as stated before.

We have plenty of people here willing to guide you in the right direction.

Good luck

hp

[bbh90]

You are too young to cycle precursors to anabolics or anabolics themselves.

Read:http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=367187

In the meantime, keep up with the nutrition and training as stated before.

We have plenty of people here willing to guide you in the right direction.

Good luck

hp

thanks i have read about this before i actually have done a lot of research on this been researching ph's since i was 17

i believe they set an age of 21 for prohormones and im wondering why they say that? they are both so closely related i cant see why the ph would have a 4 year younger age recommendation is the reasoning for this because they generally wreak less havoc on the endocrine system?

and mother fukc alright im postponing for now because although i do believe i have reached very near my natural potential i do think that my front squat incline bench and shoulders slightly have some natural potential left that i can make some significant gains without any hormonal assistance

but on the other hand im not really a strong believer that 25 is this golden age to start either on all honesty i think 21 is a more appropriate age to start and for the most part i think that how well you run your cycle makes the biggest difference in recovery as well as being reasonable in the amount of cycles you do in a lifetime unless were talking about a 16 year old or something but generally i think the fewest cycles to get to your goal is best and for most i dont see how more than 1 or 2 cycles would be necessary if you have a really good foundation

[HawaiianPride.]

thanks i have read about this before i actually have done a lot of research on this been researching ph's since i was 17

i believe they set an age of 21 for prohormones and im wondering why they say that? To sell their products. I use to rep for ON so I know how they like to push their toxic products to young kids to make money. they are both so closely related i cant see why the ph would have a 4 year younger age recommendation is the reasoning for this because they generally wreak less havoc on the endocrine system? Pro-hormones are Steroids. This is why it's advised to hold off on anything that will tamper with your HPTA/Test at such a young age.

and mother fukc alright im postponing for now because although i do believe i have reached very near my natural potential Your organisms in your body haven't fully matured. Sure you can lift heavy or whatever, but that doesn't mean jack shit when it comes to your vital organs inside of your still premature growing body. i do think that my front squat incline bench and shoulders slightly have some natural potential left that i can make some significant gains without any hormonal assistance <---That's good.

but on the other hand im not really a strong believer that 25 is this golden age to start either on all honesty i think 21 is a more appropriate age to start and for the most part i think that how well you run your cycle makes the biggest difference in recovery as well as being reasonable in the amount of cycles you do in a lifetime unless were talking about a 16 year old or something but generally i think the fewest cycles to get to your goal is best and for most i dont see how more than 1 or 2 cycles would be necessary if you have a really good foundation 16-21 your Test levels are still the same - SKY HIGH. Take advantage of this prime growth you have and all the testosterone your swimming in right now. You only life young once... hmm I feel like I'm repeating myself here yet again. Anyways, it's your choice, and it's my duty to inform you the risks you will be undergoing. All we ask here is for you to take into consideration of the much wiser that have been in your shoes already.

Bold.

[bbh90]

Bold.

that was a great response and as reading i was thinking by working my front squat incline and shoulders a little more i was thinking that may make it so i can develope other areas further as well because they wont be lacking
i still hold my ground saying 25 is a little far but ill agree 21 is a little young i think there are def ppl who are more than ready at 21 and ppl who are just barely ready at 25 but i will be waiting a while maybe ill get to my goal without it well see thanks man

[HawaiianPride.]

No problem.

Good luck.

[zaggahamma]

great work getting where you are now and great attitude you have..props

best of luck in the future

[bbh90]

great work getting where you are now and great attitude you have..props

best of luck in the future

thanks man you too

[zoltans4]

bro, look pretty good IMO. While you wait, i bet you could throw some more weight on naturally as well. got a good lean look right now tho, better start than most.