Should I cycle?

[GEM_69]

The more I research the more I feel like I might be jumping the Gun as far as starting a cycle. I havent reached my bodybuilding limit. I could probably put an extra 10-15 pounds more of muscle imho with a couple more years of training. The reason I want to cycle is for my endurance training. I plan on using AAS specifically for body building when I'm around 28 ( I am currently 24) my question is, If I do a cycle now when I'm not at my muscle building potential will that effect my body building goals later when I want to pack on the most muscle as possible? thanks. also if I could get an answer from multiple people that would be great. I really want to cycle so if multiple people tell me I will feel alot more comfortable letting go of the idea of cycling for a couple more years. thanks again

[baseline_9]

If ur doubting it dont do it

Be sure!

[TKO Performance]

Here's my thoughts. You only get one chance to do a first cycle. If you do that cycle when you are still able to gain what you would gain from the cycle, even in part, naturally then its a waste. You blew your first cycle gaining muscle that you could have just put on anyway with diet and training. IMO, your first cycle should be done only once you are very close to or at your genetic potential. Then the gains represent what would have been impossible with just diet and training, which IMO is the only reason to ever take steroids.

[Badadooo]

Here's my thoughts. You only get one chance to do a first cycle. If you do that cycle when you are still able to gain what you would gain from the cycle, even in part, naturally then its a waste. You blew your first cycle gaining muscle that you could have just put on anyway with diet and training. IMO, your first cycle should be done only once you are very close to or at your genetic potential. Then the gains represent what would have been impossible with just diet and training, which IMO is the only reason to ever take steroids.

bump

[GEM_69]

For a little more info I'm

24
175-180 lbs (fluctuate)
really low body fat percentage (not sure)
5'9

I agree with what I hear so far. If im not absolutely sure, then I probably shouldn't on top of the fact that I know I could build more muscle. Thanks for all the info. More responses would be appreciated.

[TKO Performance]

I'd get BF done so you know where you are in terms of lean mass. At 5'9" my guess is that your lean mass is going to peak naturally around 185-190lbs (that means at a theoretical 0% BF, which is impossible), so you would weigh in the 200-205lb range at 5-10% BF, which is pretty lean.

I'd refer your diet to the diet forum as well and see where you are with that and make improvements to diet above all.

[LouHulk]

Here's my thoughts. You only get one chance to do a first cycle. If you do that cycle when you are still able to gain what you would gain from the cycle, even in part, naturally then its a waste. You blew your first cycle gaining muscle that you could have just put on anyway with diet and training. IMO, your first cycle should be done only once you are very close to or at your genetic potential. Then the gains represent what would have been impossible with just diet and training, which IMO is the only reason to ever take steroids.

Genetic potential is different for everyone, how do you know if you have reached your potential yet. I come from a very athletic background I even have Olympic wrestling in my family history, along with quite a few more state champion wrestlers. Technically my genetic potential should be pretty high. But if I wait until I hit my genetic potential I'll be in my mid 30's. That was my decision to start roids earlier. I'm 29 not getting any younger, running out of time to put on size, why not maximize what you can gain ASAP? Considering people do stop growing like crazy at certain ages.

[TKO Performance]

Your logic is flawed for several reasons. First, you can continue to gain mass and strength naturally well into your 40s, and some into their 50s.

Second, genetic potential is not that different from person to person as many would have you believe. All serious research points to an upper threshold of 190-200lbs of lean mass for men of average height. Some who are a bit taller may be able to get up to 210, maybe even 220, but after that your body will simply not support any additional gain in mass regardless of training and diet. This has been researched and verified by several studies that were well conducted and recorded.

Third, why would you take a drug to achieve what you can achieve naturally? You are basically wasting the drug and putting your health at risk for no real gain. The bottom line is that all gains come from diet and training, not drugs. I can pump steroids into a couch potato who eats fast food all day long and he will never be big or lean. He might make some gains on the cycle in terms of size and mass, but those will vanish just as quickly when he comes off the cycle. If you can't eat and train right without drugs you'll never do it with them.

[LouHulk]

Your logic is flawed for several reasons. First, you can continue to gain mass and strength naturally well into your 40s, and some into their 50s.

Second, genetic potential is not that different from person to person as many would have you believe. All serious research points to an upper threshold of 190-200lbs of lean mass for men of average height. Some who are a bit taller may be able to get up to 210, maybe even 220, but after that your body will simply not support any additional gain in mass regardless of training and diet. This has been researched and verified by several studies that were well conducted and recorded.

Third, why would you take a drug to achieve what you can achieve naturally? You are basically wasting the drug and putting your health at risk for no real gain. The bottom line is that all gains come from diet and training, not drugs. I can pump steroids into a couch potato who eats fast food all day long and he will never be big or lean. He might make some gains on the cycle in terms of size and mass, but those will vanish just as quickly when he comes off the cycle. If you can't eat and train right without drugs you'll never do it with them.

I agree with the majority of what you posted. But honestly I do find it hard to believe that people in their 40's-50's can make the same gains as someone in their 20's-30's. I don't think it's a waste either, if I can achieve in three months what would take me 6 months to do without the drugs I'd call it a success. All based on the fact that a good diet and training regiment is in place. The part that I have the most trouble buying is that someone older can make the same gains as someone younger on the same diet and training regime.

[TKO Performance]

Woah, I never said the same gains. I said can continue to gain. You are not going to gain as quickly at 40 as you did at 20. That's absurd. You can still gain though. In your 20s you might pack 50lbs a year on a major exercise, maybe more when you first start training. After that its going to get harder no matter your age. You can't just gain indefinitely, or we'd have guys benching 2 tons. In your 40s you may only be able to gain 10-20lbs on an exercise in a year, but the point is that you can still gain.

Trying to short circuit your gains by 3 months at the expense of long term health simply isn't a good idea. If the average person lives to be 80 then 3 months is all of .004% of their adult life (18-80). How is that worth the risk? You're going to get there anyway. Lacking patience is often a sign of lacking discipline.

[LouHulk]

Woah, I never said the same gains. I said can continue to gain. You are not going to gain as quickly at 40 as you did at 20. That's absurd. You can still gain though. In your 20s you might pack 50lbs a year on a major exercise, maybe more when you first start training. After that its going to get harder no matter your age. You can't just gain indefinitely, or we'd have guys benching 2 tons. In your 40s you may only be able to gain 10-20lbs on an exercise in a year, but the point is that you can still gain.

Trying to short circuit your gains by 3 months at the expense of long term health simply isn't a good idea. If the average person lives to be 80 then 3 months is all of .004% of their adult life (18-80). How is that worth the risk? You're going to get there anyway. Lacking patience is often a sign of lacking discipline.

Fair enough, just glad we could have a discussion that was civil.

[TKO Performance]

No doubt. Smart, mature guys can do that, and we're smart and mature guys. If you have to resort to name calling and the like all it does is reflect how weak your point really was in the first place. Logic should always speak for itself. If a person is immune to logic they are beyond help and not worth talking to anyway.

[GEM_69]

good points, I'm glad that I asked this because as I stated before I dont want to hinder my potential later because I want to gain now. I think that I will use the next couple years to float around the forum and learn as much as possible, then when I have reached my natural limit i will cycle. thanks guys i have made my decision. sucks cuz i bout a mini fridge for gear and pct. lol got a little too excited i think.

But I will get my body fat percentage measured and post my diet when its ready.

[cherrydrpepper]

Hi Gem 69 been following your threads some whats up. Anyway about cycling. I don't have an issue with your age or where you are at physically I think you are good for the most part. What I am concerned about is I got the impression you have made a lot of changes to the intensity of your workouts recently which is good. On the other hand if you cycle when you are in a transitional period you are setting yourself up to easily get injured. I am saying this from experience.

I developed tendonitis mostly from cycling and throwing up high weights I had no business throwing up on my first cycle. I am actually going to make a thread about this. I will pm you the link or title. Basically even though lets say your bicep is strong and can handle you curling a much higher weight than before you cycled, if you haven't been training for a while with intensity you are setting the ligaments and tendons up to get injured. So I would take a look in the mirror and ask if you are hitting plateaus lately, ask if you have been benching the same weight for a month, things like this. Cause if you haven't.. in my opinion 6 months to a year of hard work beforehand.. you are totally going to get hurt. Its not a question of if its a question of how bad. It will just be a question of if its a tiny hurt or a big hurt lol.

Back to the original question, if you feel you have been hitting everything hard (cross training and weights) for quite some time, I say 24 and your other stats are fine to take the plunge. You might want to incorporate some Strong Man competition workouts as well as MMA fighter workouts. I know you have some of that stuff thrown in, but you know stuff like holding a bucket of water with your arm outstretched as long as you can, real balls out endurance type stuff.

[GEM_69]

Yeah my intesity has always been the same. The workout plan that I showed you is what I've been doing for about a year and a half. The only thing that changes is reps/ distance/weight. The things I've hit a platue on is my running and swimming. No matter what I do as far as training at higher altitude/ more sprints/ more distance/ train at lower altitude and sleep in higher just doesnt seem to work. I currently live at 9000 ft and I train at 6000 ft. I trying that right now. My lifting on the other hand is a different story. I've hit platues in certain areas like pull ups/number of max pushups but I'm getting stronger in how much weight I can lift. It is really slow but I'm still improving. I think that my muscle endurance is maxed out as of right now but not so sure about my weight lifting strength. I have been maxed out in those areas for about 6 months. Your thoughts on that?