Again confused! Read, read, read and get mixed reports and advice about PCT...SERM's & AI's.
This is a great post I found by Pheedno:
Pheedno's PCT
My post cycle therapy consists of a three compound administration which is designed so that there is a primary and secondary LH stimulator which both are maximizing potential early in the duration; with the primary being phased out in extended protocol. With the addition of an Aromatase Inhibitor, which makes the above possible, the individual will also endure less of an increase in Sex Hormone Binding Globulin, which allows free testosterone levels to reach base line at a much quicker pace. The individual will also see less of a problem in most cases with sexual libido as the bounding SHBG is controlled(to an extent). Below you will find my suggested bare minimum, as well as a sample of an extended protocol. Extended PCT protcol is cycle length dependant so the below is not the standard for all cycles
PCT for cycles 8-16wks:
Day 1-30- .25mg L-dex + 100mg Clomid + 20mg Nolva
Extended protocol sample for a 12+ month cycle:
Day 1-15_ .25mg L-dex + 100mg Clomid + 20mg Nolva
Day 16-45_.25mg L-dex + 75mg Clomid + 20mg Nolva
Day 46-65_.25mg L-dex + 20mg Nolva
Day 66-80_.25mg L-dex
Now IMO, selective estrogen receptor modulators(SERMs) such as Clomiphine and Tamoxifen are selective to which tissues they bind too. Clomid being selective to the suprapituitary, while Tamox is selective to breast, bone, and liver ERs. I've come to this conclusion based on the comparison of studies on both SERMs. In every study showing benefit to HPTA from tamoxifin, the duration of the administration is 3-12months(This includes studies cited by William Llewellyn in his Nolva vs Clomid article). In studies showing levels of LH, FSH, and Testosterone checked after short durations of tamox, they were either insignificant, or their was an actual drop. I believe this is because tamox selectively works at the mammery(as well as bone and liver), thus taking longer for LH stimulation to occur.
With clomid, benefit to gonadotrophin concentrations, LH, FSH, and serum testosterone can be seen in short periods of 2-6wks. Because of the apparent selective nature of the two, and given our usual PCT duration, clomid is by far superior at LH stimulation than Nolva. Now both is the wise choice for a couple of reasons:
1. Nolva acts as the preventive measure to the estrogen flux
occured PC while clomid is the primary LH stimulator(Even more so in the case an AI is not used).
2. If your running a longer PCT, clomid needs to be discontinued after a while as it has been shown to desensitize GnRH, this due, IMO, to it's selective nature to the suprapituitary. In the longer forms of PCT, the clomid will be phased out, leaving Nolva and L-dex
Arimidex(or L-dex)
Estrogen is the main inhibitence of restoring HPTA, and AI administration has been shown to increase gonadotrophin concentrations and serum Testosterone by up to 50%. In addition, by adding L-dex, the inhibitence of excess estrogen allows Tamox to work greater at LH stimulation in the begining stages of PCT, since the need to prevent binding in the mammery is lessened by the reduction in estrogen biosynthesis
However this was posted back in 2004...So have things changed?
I am holding back on my cycle for 2 reasons.
Reason 1: I want to lose some bodyfat % b4 I cycle and get as strong and diet strict as I possibly can naturally.
Reason 2: I want to make sure I have the answers I need for a textbook recovery PCT. And then buy everything I need so my cycle is smooth with no problems with running out of stuff and even not being able to get hold of anything I need b4 its to late!
Remember the boy scouts? : Always be prepared!
So my question is this...
When I cycle I am going to take:
Week 1 - 12 - Sus250 @ 500mg p/w shot on Mon & Thur (split 250mg each shot).
Week 6 - 12 - Oxandrolone (Bonavar) @ 60mg ED.
I am going to wait 18 days from my last shot of Sus250 and start PCT:
Nolva: 40/40/20/20/20
Clomid: 100/50/50/50/25
Do you think this is fine???
I was going to get some Arimidex and take from day 1 till last shot of Sus250 @ .25 ED.
Should I do this? Do I need this? Or do I use an AI during my PCT time only with Nolva & Clomid?
Another question is do I need HCG??? Some say no and some say yes???
Please guys advise on this would be greatly appreciated.
Reply With Quote
Originally Posted by FuzzyPeaches o.O
