the testes wont produce if you dont supply under 2500ius a week (hcg)

[++++]

talking to a guy i know and he seems educated with the whole aas thing but i got to diagree on what he told me about hcg (thread title.

imput please.

[++++]

If you have been on for 16 weeks with no hcg I think you may need a lot more hcg than that. I am no expert but have done a hell of a lot of research on this. I dont think I am allowed to post links to other forums but I will paste selected bits that may give you some food for thought.


I talked to the doc today on the phone and he answered many questions for me in regards to recovery of the HPTA.
For those of you who don’t know what that is it is “Hypothalamus Pituitary Testicular Axis”
After administration of AAS, you have shutdown of the HPTA. Depending on the meds taken shutdown can be severe and much does depend on the person as well.

This is the protocol the doc said he used in literally thousands of users with suppressed HPTA.
First thing, the 500iu a day was not enough to make the testicles do their job, he suggested this was just a waste of time and money.
He suggests 8 shots of HCG @ 2500iu EOD.
With this you take 20 mg of nolvadex for 45 days.
Clomid is also taken but twice a day @ 50mg each dose 12 hours apart.

The reason for the amounts of HCG (which is the most important part, if the balls don’t fire everything else is worthless), is based on his determination to bring the balls back to life, too little wont accomplish this, too much risks damage to the Leydig cells.
So he basically was saying that you do the HCG and around day 10 of the above protocol, you should get a blood test for testosterone . If it is above 400 or greater then this says the balls will be just fine once you get off the HCG and the Clomid and nolva take over. This will accept the LH that you are putting out to maintain testicular function.
He used the term like jumping a car. Your battery (Pituitary gland) if low wont start your car (your testicles), if you use another car and jumper cables (HCG) once the car starts your battery (HP part of the HPTA) will keep your car running.

The clomid by itself he suggested can inhibit either the pituitary or the hypothalamus (can’t remember which one) but if taken with nolva this blocks the estrogen receptors so you wont inhibit that.
So clomid in his protocol is always taken with nolvadex ALWAYS.

He did mention that sometimes the balls just don’t take and then you do the protocol again. He said it was rare that he could not fire up the HPTA.
He said that beings that I have good size difference (balls), feel good, strength gains, and a greasy face he felt I should have no problems with returning the HPTA.

One thing he did mention (in an article) was that HGH actually helped with the testicular recovery with things and adding that to the Protocol is a good idea and productive.

Avoid aspirin when on HCG as it kind of ruins the effects.

He said oxandrolone was suppressive on the HPTA, but Deca and Anadrol were probably the worst in his opinion. I asked him about tren but he had no knowledge as he never used it.
He did mention that test in itself was not all that suppressive and he has seen guys on 18 months that came off and made a full recovery in 45 days with the above protocol.

He said one of the best ways was 12 weeks of test, followed by the above protocol, then start another 12 weeks followed by the above protocol with a month off after that then start again.

He did say that desensitization to HCG took around 2 months, and the dose of 2500 was fine and no damage or desensitization would occur if you followed his protocol.

Credit to the author H. Not me

[fleck]

Intresting post, I could use a second opinion,

''First thing, the 500iu a day was not enough to make the testicles do their job, he suggested this was just a waste of time and money.
He suggests 8 shots of HCG @ 2500iu EOD.
With this you take 20 mg of nolvadex for 45 days.''

I will admit i am not nearly as knowledgable as some of the vets on this board but I would like to let you hear my opinion, and also hear theirs if possible.
I think 8 shots @ 2500iu's eod is a bit much. I know of many people who do say for example a 12 week deca /sus cycle and then on their 13th week simply shoot 3000iu's of hcg and recover quickly as anyone else. It just seems alot to shoot 20,000 iu's of hcg over ten days. Surely a lower dose would suffice. Although I would point out he didnt say how much aas was being used over how long.After all desentsizing the leydig is the last thing someone wants to hear.

[Bonaparte]

750IUs/week of HCG most closely mimics your body's natural lh production (though you'd still be lacking the important FSH component found in HMG).

[Vitruvian-Man]

750IUs/week of HCG most closely mimics your body's natural lh production (though you'd still be lacking the important FSH component found in HMG).

^^ And unfortunately it's f*ckking expensive stuff!

-VM

[SomeRandomGuy]

I wonder if there's a study done somewhere that looks at desensitization. I know it happens if you use HCG for too long of a duration OR too high of a concentration. But what are the hard numbers on that, I don't know. Supplementing LH production during the cycle at 250i.u. 2x/wk seemed to keep me from getting atrophy, even at high doses though.

[++++]

^^ And unfortunately it's f*ckking expensive stuff!

-VM

you must be getting ripped of then becasue hcg is not expencive at all just gready sources mske it expencive for some people.

[fleck]

yes i find buying quite expensive also. plus we no little about the long term side effects and like some random guy says there are no hard numbers on how much is needed and how much is too much.

[Swifto]

500ius will raise endogenous testosterone , so will 250ius and so will 125ius.

It all depends on responsive the testes are. Thats the question at hand here, not the AMOUNT of HCG needed. If your testes are online and firing (off cycle) a small amount of HCG will spike testosterone by stimulating the leydig's directly.

If you have left them dormant and are suffering from testicular dysfunction a small amount may not do squat.

Larger initial doses are required if the testes have NOT been stimulated on cycle and testicular dysfunction has begin to set it.

[letstrain]

so when should hcg be started during a cycle, as i feel my testes are to be hanging one day and not the next, does this mean hcg is in need, and what amount would be taken to start, any help would be great,

[Vitruvian-Man]

you must be getting ripped of then becasue hcg is not expencive at all just gready sources mske it expencive for some people.

If you refer back to my post I clearly highlighted, bolded, and underlined HMG as being "expensive". Not HCG buds.

-VM

[FuzzyPeaches o.O]

so when should hcg be started during a cycle, as i feel my testes are to be hanging one day and not the next, does this mean hcg is in need, and what amount would be taken to start, any help would be great,

You should start your own thread regarding this..

[SomeRandomGuy]

500ius will raise endogenous testosterone , so will 250ius and so will 125ius.

It all depends on responsive the testes are. Thats the question at hand here, not the AMOUNT of HCG needed. If your testes are online and firing (off cycle) a small amount of HCG will spike testosterone by stimulating the leydig's directly.

If you have left them dormant and are suffering from testicular dysfunction a small amount may not do squat.

Larger initial doses are required if the testes have NOT been stimulated on cycle and testicular dysfunction has begin to set it.

Well said. And the answer to the OP's question/statement...