1st Cycle - Test Prop and Anavar

[forever]

Hey guys!
I have been browsing around and trying to soak in as much information as possible on and off for about 1 year. Been thinking of taking gear for a while, but just wasnt committed enough to my diet and training. Now that things have been on track for the past 6 months, I'm ready! I have been training for 5 years.
This my first post and first cycle. Hoping you guys can help me iron out the wrinkles. All advice is appreciated.
I can probably post pics of myself and my gear if necessary.

Stats are:
Age:24
Height: 6'4"
Weight: 280lbs
Yrs Training: 5
BF %: Roughly 25% (mostly around my midsection)
Diet: http://www.rippedfreak.com/index.cfm..._Plan&id=19894
I'm following the 175-225lb diet as close as possible. Minus the fish oil caps and the waxy maize starch. This is the simplest eating plan for me to follow.

Supplements:
Testosterone Propionate
Anavar
HCG
Clomid
Arimidex

This is what i had in mind so far...
*Weeks 1-10 - Testostrone Propionate 100mg/EOD
*Weeks 1-10 - Anavar 100mg/ED
*Weeks 10-12 - HCG 250iu/ED
*Right after my last Testosterone Propionate shot start 30 day Clomid - 150mg for 10 days, 100mg for 10 days, and 50mg for 10 days.
*I was thinking of taking Arimidex all throughout my cycle up until my clomid is finished, but not sure of the amount to take. What do you guys think??

If theres something I'm missing let me know...
But would love to hear some experinced input on what to change/add/remove.

Thanks in advance!
-Forever.

[D7M]

A few minor things I would change,

but the biggest issue I see is your body fat.

I'd work on getting that down to a respectable level (below 15%) before cycling.

You will have a much, much more productive cycle that way.

[Bertuzzi]

A few minor things I would change,

but the biggest issue I see is your body fat.

I'd work on getting that down to a respectable level (below 15%) before cycling.

You will have a much, much more productive cycle that way.

Great advice as always... Gotta get the BF down my friend. You sound like me 7 months ago. Took me 4 months to cut then I did Test prop with Tbol and had awesome results.

[desizon]

Great advice as always... Gotta get the BF down my friend. You sound like me 7 months ago. Took me 4 months to cut then I did Test prop with Tbol and had awesome results.

What kinda results ^_^

[Bertuzzi]

What kinda results ^_^

Gained 30 pounds in 8 weeks.... start PCT tomorrow.

[forever]

Sounds great. Thanks for the advice and the personal test...(no pun intended) lol. Why am I so anxious to start my cycle with my current BF%...and see what kind of results i get??? Im sure this is a common thought amongst guys with higher BF%. But...I wont start until I get down to the 15% mark. Thanks for the heads up guys!

[morty]

You will start it anyway so make sure your diet is in check then your next cycle will be a bulk

[Callsign]

You could lower your bf over the winter, start your cycle & be ready to show the new gunz for summer. Good luck

[forever]

Awesome...thanks guys. I still have some of my ripped freak left. Might use that to cut the BF down. Any other ideas?

[Callsign]

To my knowledge, there are no majic pills, just old fashion Diet and cardio. Then use AS to get you past your genetic limitations.

P.S. I'm not a pro, just my 2 cents

[forever]

what do you guys think of Anavar by itself to cut down the BF? I have heard alot of good things about guys and girls dropping alot of fat using just anavar. But also heard alot of bad things about oral only cycles. What are your thoughts? Would it make any sense in my scenerio??

[Bertuzzi]

Sounds great. Thanks for the advice and the personal test...(no pun intended) lol. Why am I so anxious to start my cycle with my current BF%...and see what kind of results i get??? Im sure this is a common thought amongst guys with higher BF%. But...I wont start until I get down to the 15% mark. Thanks for the heads up guys!

15% is just a reference... See how disciplined you really are and see if you can get to 10% before starting. Remember this; The lower you get your BF, the less chance of sides. Also, if you have the discipline to get to 10% or under while fighting that massive urge to cycle... you will have amazing discipline while on cycle and succeed that much more physically and mentally. Just imagine how proud you would of yourself. If you can learn to empower yourself to that level you will be amazed with the results and overall feeling of well being.

You will start it anyway so make sure your diet is in check then your next cycle will be a bulk

^^ Your kind of advice is not welcome here. Thanks

You could lower your bf over the winter, start your cycle & be ready to show the new gunz for summer. Good luck

^^ I like this advice and can't help but agree. This is probably plenty of time to do what I have just mentioned above.... think of the Karate kid, Wax on, Wax off my friend!

what do you guys think of Anavar by itself to cut down the BF? I have heard alot of good things about guys and girls dropping alot of fat using just anavar. But also heard alot of bad things about oral only cycles. What are your thoughts? Would it make any sense in my scenerio??

^^ I have ran anavar only cycles and the idea of it as a "fat burner" is simply over-hyped. The problem with all these guys running around saying Var is a great cutter is; guys and girls in situations like yours think it will work well for them, when actually it is more so for the 12% bf guy who is on a strict diet and training schedule and wants to lien out and gain some strength while limiting size.... you know he wants to get an extra 45lbs on his bench press and squeeze into the some what elite club of sub 10% BF. Not for guys looking to go from 18% to 15% so they can run an injectable cycle Although, I don't think there is anything wrong with an Anavar only cycle... I like the idea of it as an introduction into the world of AAS. Now that I have run an injectable cycle I will never run Var only again.... just not suited for what I want.

Just focus on a strict diet and lots of low intensity cardio. Don't be going revin your heart rate up too high while doing cardio otherwise you are not targeting that fat burning zone.


Good Luck my friend and push it hard..... wax on, wax off!

[Vitruvian-Man]

Height: 6'4"
Weight: 280lbs
Yrs Training: 5
BF %: Roughly 25% (mostly around my midsection)
Diet: [url]http://www.rippedfreak.com/index.cfm?

This is what i had in mind so far...
*Weeks 1-10 - Testostrone Propionate 100mg/EOD
*Weeks 1-10 - Anavar 100mg/ED
*Weeks 10-12 - HCG 250iu/ED
*Right after my last Testosterone Propionate shot start 30 day Clomid - 150mg for 10 days, 100mg for 10 days, and 50mg for 10 days.
*I was thinking of taking Arimidex all throughout my cycle up until my clomid is finished, but not sure of the amount to take. What do you guys think??

I actually really like the cycle. It must have cost you an arm and a leg for all that anavar, but 100mg/ed is a great dose that's for sure.

For the arimidex... you could just use it (weeks 1 - 12) @ 0.25mg/E3.5D

Discontinue the arimidex before you begin your PCT... also, if you're going to be only using clomid for your PCT and not nolvadex, you should drop the clomid dose, and run it longer (IE)

week #1-2: 100mg/ed
#3-4: 75mg/ed
#5: 50mg/ed

I'd be interested in seeing some pictures. 280 and 6'4 is a big frame to work with. post some up if you've got em'..

Hope that helps..

-VM

[Bertuzzi]

I actually really like the cycle. It must have cost you an arm and a leg for all that anavar, but 100mg/ed is a great dose that's for sure.

For the arimidex... you could just use it (weeks 1 - 12) @ 0.25mg/E3.5D

Discontinue the arimidex before you begin your PCT... also, if you're going to be only using clomid for your PCT and not nolvadex, you should drop the clomid dose, and run it longer (IE)

week #1-2: 100mg/ed
#3-4: 75mg/ed
#5: 50mg/ed

I'd be interested in seeing some pictures. 280 and 6'4 is a big frame to work with. post some up if you've got em'..

Hope that helps..

-VM

Yes... I like the cycle too.... its right up my alley actually, but do you not agree that he needs to lower the BF a lot before starting??

[forever]

Thanks Bertuzzi for clearing up the anavar only idea! Mind if I ask you what you did to cut down your BF% in those 4 months? Diet/Training/Consitency??? Would love to have something to measure up to. Thanks again...

I am in the gym 5 days a week right now...cardio for about 20 mins (going to change it to the lower intensity), stretching properly, and training one muscle a day except bis/tris on the same day.

Diet seems to be my biggest obsticale...being consitent with it is the biggest issue...any ideas on sticking with it? My body hasnt changed too much in the past 6 months other than some definition a little size and alot of strength increase... you think its mainly because my diet isnt consitent enough??

[Bertuzzi]

Thanks Bertuzzi for clearing up the anavar only idea! Mind if I ask you what you did to cut down your BF% in those 4 months? Diet/Training/Consitency??? Would love to have something to measure up to. Thanks again...

I am in the gym 5 days a week right now...cardio for about 20 mins (going to change it to the lower intensity), stretching properly, and training one muscle a day except bis/tris on the same day.

Diet seems to be my biggest obsticale...being consitent with it is the biggest issue...any ideas on sticking with it? My body hasnt changed too much in the past 6 months other than some definition a little size and alot of strength increase... you think its mainly because my diet isnt consitent enough??

Well to sum up what I did... I was taught by a very well respected member of this board and they followed me through my whole progress. They built my diet for me... laid out the cardio I should be doing and gave me advice on training splits... of course when it comes to lifting, you must find what works best for you. I am beyond thankful for the their tutelage. Everything I shall suggest to you is pretty much what I was told from that person.

First off, you need to up your cardio to 60 minutes a day 5 days a week. I know this is amazingly hard to imagine trust me, because I hate cardio probably more than anyone... I swear I would almost rather commit suicide then do cardio. Keep you heart rate right around 130 BPM. Go get a heart rate monitor you wrap around your chest and comes with a watch. The heart rate monitors built into the machine are not that accurate. Now.... the first thing you are going to think is wow... I am not even moving fast at 130bpm and you'll probably even think, how can this be helping.... trust me it is. You'll be thankful it doesn't take much energy because remember, you have to do it 1 hour 5 days a week

As for training... I workout 4 days a week...
Monday - Back
Tuesday - Off
Wednesday - Chest and Biceps
Thursday - Off
Friday - Shoulders and Triceps
Saturday - Legs
Sunday - Off

Like I said before... you need to find what works for you.... just make sure you are giving your body ample time to rest... this is very important... do not over train!

Diet.... I am not gonna go there.... I am far from a diet guru. Head to the diet section of this forum where guys know what they are talking about... there are many options for you to look into. I personally Ran a Targeted Keto Diet (TKD) during my cut.... you can all look into Carb cycling and many other options.... again, please head to the diet forum, read the stickies and ask some question... they are good people over there and smart like snow is white <---- bad expression dunno where it came from.... must be the Canadian in me

You have to stay consistent on your diet you choose.... it is very important.... but remember this, every good diet allows you to cheat so you can still indulge a little. Keep the diet on track and that crazy cardio going... in a few months, you will not recognize yourself... I promise.

Last but not least..... you have to know you are officially entering into a life style.... you will be required to change your life if you want to achieve your goals.... To succeed and stay consistent you'll probably have to cook all your food a week in advance and freeze it, you'll have to make time for that cardio... these are decision you must be willing to commit to and I promise, you will love yourself for it!!

Welcome to the club my friend, success is just around the corner and don't forget.... its ok to ask questions along the way.... most of the members here are very helpful.... I know because sooooo many of them have helped me and continue to help me.

[K_PIN]

You may want to lower that clomid dose. Or run nolvadex instead. I personally at that first dose had strange side effects. Every morning when i woke up I would see tracers. Really colorful tracers for about 5 minutes. Then they would go away but still a scary thing when you wake up in the morning. I lowered the dose and this went away. I never had any side effects with nolva.

[Callsign]

I really like this thread!!! Bertuzzi, do you do 60 min of cardio before or after your workout? Since I dont know the answer, i've been mixing it up so i got it right atleast 50% of the time.lol

[Bertuzzi]

I really like this thread!!! Bertuzzi, do you do 60 min of cardio before or after your workout? Since I dont know the answer, i've been mixing it up so i got it right atleast 50% of the time.lol

I find it best to separate the 2 as much as possible. I workout at night, generally 8pm and if I could get my cardio in at 7am on an empty stomach it always seemed best. Although I thik you can do it however you feel most comfortable, i just wouldn't push out an hour of cardio 30 minutes before you go lift... you'll use up too much energy

[Vitruvian-Man]

Yes... I like the cycle too.... its right up my alley actually, but do you not agree that he needs to lower the BF a lot before starting??

Absolutely bro. Sorry I was just trying to to add onto your comment there with some additional thoughts of mine.

But yes OP, follow Bertuzzi's advice and drop BF% first. Trust me if you're going to run that much var, and you want to get the hardening/cutting affects that are associated with tren, then you need to make sure that your BF digits are relatively low to begin with, so that you can get the full benefit of the compound.

Now where'd those pictures go that I asked for?

-VM

[Bertuzzi]

Absolutely bro. Sorry I was just trying to to add onto your comment there with some additional thoughts of mine.

But yes OP, follow Bertuzzi's advice and drop BF% first. Trust me if you're going to run that much var, and you want to get the hardening/cutting affects that are associated with tren, then you need to make sure that your BF digits are relatively low to begin with, so that you can get the full benefit of the compound.

Now where'd those pictures go that I asked for?

-VM

I knew what you were doing, I just didn't want the OP to misunderstand your post.... Thanks

Pics are always good.... come on

[Bertuzzi]

I hope we didn't scare him off....

[Numb uK]

I hope we didn't scare him off....

I'm sure that you didn't! Some truely great posts you've made Bertuzzi! I've enjoyed reading all the way through this thread.

[Bertuzzi]

I'm sure that you didn't! Some truely great posts you've made Bertuzzi! I've enjoyed reading all the way through this thread.

I appreciate the compliment

[forever]

Hahaha...I'm just new to forums too...so gettin used to replyin back! But ill take some pics tonight before I hit the gym...I'd do it at work...but I'm afraid if I take off my shirt I might get a raise. Hopefully by blackberry takes a good enough pic! But thanks for the tips tho bertuzzi...gotta run!

[The_Bezerker]

250ius everyday of hcg can actually damage your leydig cells. all one needs is 250iu twice weekly


also anti estrogen is not needed untill second or third week some free flowing estrogen in your blood stream is good as it plays a role in the bodys own natural igf-1 production. I find armidex to harsh as it eradicates estrogen completley i like aramosin much better

[forever]

Heres my pics guys! I dont have a black circle as a face in real life...

[Bertuzzi]

Good on you for uploading the pictures and putting yourself out there... thanks!

Now as you know, you have a lot of work ahead of you and you are probably over 30% BF, but don't you worry.... If you are willing to put in the effort and I have a feeling you are you will Love yourself for it and in 6 months to a year, you won't even recognize yourself!

Like I said before, focus on your diet and hit that low intensity cardio big time! 60 minutes a day 5 days a week.... and don't forget to work out 3 to 4 times a week and allow your muscle groups to get the required rest and recovery.

Stay away from the supplement world too, do not get sucked in... you don't need any fat burners and shit.... no gimmicky stuff, save your money. Pick a good solid protein powder though.

Now head to the diet section of the forum and post your stats with your planned diet and explain you are on a all natural cut... good old fashioned cardio and food. Might help to post your pics again in the thread too.

Good Luck!

[gonzo6183]

Goodwork posting up the pics man, gives people a much better idea when giving advice. Now hit up the diet forum, train your ass off (especially am cardio ED), put the cycle on the back burner for a while and see how you go, at this stage AAS will not benifit you.

[forever]

ok im so confused with this diet thing!!! I cant grasp it around my head. I did the BMR thing to figure out my calories and than cut them by 1000 for losing weight...I think thats a start...
I just feels so confused about what to post in the diet section...like I have nothing to post lol. I dont even know where to start. Should i start with what my diet looks like currently?

[Numb uK]

ok im so confused with this diet thing!!! I cant grasp it around my head. I did the BMR thing to figure out my calories and than cut them by 1000 for losing weight...I think thats a start...
I just feels so confused about what to post in the diet section...like I have nothing to post lol. I dont even know where to start. Should i start with what my diet looks like currently?

I'd open with your current stats, your future goals and your current training program. You should list your current diet for criticism, so basically draft everything you eat thoughout the day and use that as evidence. It might be worth attaching some of those pictures too. I'd like to congratulate you first of all for making that first step. Welldone and I wish you all the best!

[gonzo6183]

Title a thread reading "diet critique"
Write down every single item you eat on an average day, if you dont have an average day then write down everything you ate yesterday with as much detail as possible: times eaten, amounts, calories if possible.
From there state your goals, which would be simple, reduce body fat.
From there guys will reply and offer advice.
Dont forget to add all of your stats:
Age
Hieght
Weight
Bodyfat (post the pics)
Training Experience.
Id say you are a fair way off being ready to cycle but you have taken the first steps so take your time and you will see the results you are looking for. Its not a race, its a lifestyle.

Gonzo

[forever]

This is what my training schedule is looking like changed it up added the AM cardio sessions. Mon/Tues I figured I'd move them to the PM since those days are scheduled off from lifting. I do work full time from 6:30 till 4ish (the earliest) or 9:00 till 6:00 (being the latest) and the odd Saturdays. I figured this way only on my Fridays I'm going to have to go in before work. What you guys think?

Currently I'm working out with 6-12 reps increasing weight and decresing my reps with each excersice. Throwing in supersets where I can and dropping weight going to failure where I can. Should i change my lifting style? More reps lighter weight?

AM PM
Sun- Cardio High Rep Full Body
Mon- OFF Cardio
Tues- OFF Cardio
Wed- OF Chest/Bi
Thurs- OFF Shoulder/Tri
Fri- Cardio Back/Legs
Sat- Cardio Abs/Forearms/Calves

[forever]

That helps! Thanks for pointing me in the right direction! Ill probably through up my diet tomorrow evening after keeping track of it. I suppose theres a section for training also lol! I guess my training questions go in there??? lol I'm learning!

Now that I think about it Ive been in the gym for a few years on and off, and my body hasn't really changed. I know a big part of it would be my diet...but just realizing how much I dont know...I guess its true...you dont know what you dont know!

Thanks for all the help so far guys! Just curious...why do you guys take the time out to help so much?

[gonzo6183]

We all learn from each other knowledge
And yes there is a workout forum as well

[Bertuzzi]

This is what my training schedule is looking like changed it up added the AM cardio sessions. Mon/Tues I figured I'd move them to the PM since those days are scheduled off from lifting. I do work full time from 6:30 till 4ish (the earliest) or 9:00 till 6:00 (being the latest) and the odd Saturdays. I figured this way only on my Fridays I'm going to have to go in before work. What you guys think?

Currently I'm working out with 6-12 reps increasing weight and decresing my reps with each excersice. Throwing in supersets where I can and dropping weight going to failure where I can. Should i change my lifting style? More reps lighter weight?

AM PM
Sun- Cardio High Rep Full Body
Mon- OFF Cardio
Tues- OFF Cardio
Wed- OF Chest/Bi
Thurs- OFF Shoulder/Tri
Fri- Cardio Back/Legs
Sat- Cardio Abs/Forearms/Calves

^^ I think you should split your back and legs up. They are both very large muscle groups and require a lot of excersises. You can do your abs with your back and put the calves in with your leg day.

That helps! Thanks for pointing me in the right direction! Ill probably through up my diet tomorrow evening after keeping track of it. I suppose theres a section for training also lol! I guess my training questions go in there??? lol I'm learning!

Now that I think about it Ive been in the gym for a few years on and off, and my body hasn't really changed. I know a big part of it would be my diet...but just realizing how much I dont know...I guess its true...you dont know what you dont know!

Thanks for all the help so far guys! Just curious...why do you guys take the time out to help so much?

Because a lot of members helped us. Believe me, most us started where you are right now and we are what we are today because of the help of other members..... Do on to others...

One day you'll be the one offering the advice!

Good Luck

[Bertuzzi]

I haven't seen you post that diet up yet.... You still there??

[forever]

just posted it...i was just being an ass and avoiding it...but its up now...the low intensity cardios been great! 69 mins going 4 or 5 days depending on my work schedule too!

[Bertuzzi]

just posted it...i was just being an ass and avoiding it...but its up now...the low intensity cardios been great! 69 mins going 4 or 5 days depending on my work schedule too!

I saw the diet... they'll help you out.

Glad to hear you are liking the cardio.... Keep up the hard work!

[Nickleby]

Finally - a really well written and informative thread. Great work too Bertuzzi. Way to keep the tone even too.
I'm actually going to use some of you advice as I'm running my current Sust/Primo cycle.

Meeeee-owwwww