Diet question while on cycle

[Slypknot]

Been reading as much as I can on this (hard to find, try searching for diet or 'diet on cycle'...tons of junk in there). So what better than just ask away?

Prior to my cycle I lost quite a bit of weight...my diet (when fat) consisted of 1 to 2 meals a day and LOTs of mountain dew. Well, to lose weight I upped it to 4 smaller meals a day, DIET soda and plenty of water. Got pretty used to eating this way and really thinned out.

So then I began this cycle of sust/deca 1-10 followed by winny and usual clomid therapy. My current diet looks like this (week 4 in this cycle):

7:00 - 1 pouch of oatmeal w/protein powder
10:00 - protein shake
1:00 - chicken ceasar salad, a roll...might switch with fish or steak.
3:00 - protein shake
5:00 - workout at gym (usually drink a carb drink there) followed by post workout shake
9:00 - 2 chicken breasts (skinless, marinated)
11:00 - protein shake (muscle milk), maybe a lowfat yogurt then crash for the night

I realize there's a LOT of shaking goin on in there - but it seems to be the easiest way for me to keep up the intake of protein without eating 'dirty' foods.

So here's my question: Is there some way I can tell whether my protein/carb/calorie intake is 'good enough' during cycle? Most of what I've read seems to lean that taking in 5-6000 calories is good but that is pretty generic. Weighing in at 177, 5'10 and age 30 - not sure if that's what I need.

Being on a cycle and NOT getting enough of the 3 above, would I feel a certain way? Tired all the time? Or is it pretty much a hit or miss with the only way to tell being examining results post cycle?

If there IS literature on this which helps please point me in the 'right direction' and I'd be happy to go research it rather than waste anyone's time...

Slyp

[MBaraso]

Bro your not eating enough! Your eating like I would when I'm cutting.
Throw some pasta in there once a week. A steak or 2 during the week and up your carbs some.
You need to eat more if u wanna grow :-)

[Got Gear?]

Dieting and bulking don't go well together.

You've got to decide what your #1 goal is.
Adding muscle mass or loosing body fat.

If nothing else... keep this in mind. Most of your muscle growth happens when you are sleeping. This is when your body is going to need the most nutrients to be available. So unlike when you're dieting, you want your last meal before bed to be high in both carbs and protien.

If you make no other changes, add another package of oatmeal to your 11pm meal.

[mmaximus25]

Originally posted by Slypknot

7:00 - 1 pouch of oatmeal w/pro-tein powder
10:00 - pro-tein shake
1:00 - chicken ceasar salad, a roll...might switch with fish or steak.
3:00 - pro-tein shake
5:00 - workout at gym (usually drink a carb drink there) followed by post workout shake
9:00 - 2 chicken breasts (skinless, marinated)
11:00 - pro-tein shake (muscle milk), maybe a lowfat yogurt then crash for the night

slyp

Start by counting up the calories you’re intaking now... so you know, better yet so you have a reference. Log your intake for a week every day. You might be surprised if your even intaking 2500 cals. Your diet above doesn't really mean anything unless you put it in grams, so we can calculate your pro-tein/carb/fat intake... You should be steadily increasing your calories with your growth. The point I make is not so much towards calories but grams per body weight. Every one must find their maintenance if the going to chart a good plan of lean growth. This is the one thing I tell people when training. If you’re training hard and using AS your appetite should start to kick you in the ass. If your not steadily increasing in maintenance calories each year I'm sorry to say you’re not growing. You have to feed the newly add mass... simply put.
The physical way to tell if you’re getting the proper nutrients is through bodily functions. Problems with fatigue, headaches, cramping, urination & defecation. All can be caused by not enough water consumption, not enough complex carbs, poor mineral and vitamin intake. Alot of seemingly simple or minor issued problems can be attributed to diet. If you feel great, work out great, have lots of energy that is the most physical sign with out going to a quack that you’re doing good diet wise. As far as literature you should first begin by learning how your body uses each nutrient such as Carbs/Protein/Fat. It takes time to understand nutrition, but the basics can lead you to success

growth spit by me... its not about bulking though, I may need to revise if thats how its interpreted. Its about sufficent grams per lb to grow:
http://anabolicreview.com/vbulletin/...postid=402062#

Water spit by me... just a comment about water
http://anabolicreview.com/vbulletin/...threadid=42148

[Cock Diesel155]

Just eat man.. Your metabolism is so high you don't have to worry about getting fat. For lunch throw a meal in.. Not a salad.. Eat like 2 chicken breasts, rice and a vegetable. Then for dinner pig out (since you just got done lifting.) Eat like a steak, potatoe, and some vegetables. Don't be afraid to throw some fruit in during the day either to get some fiber. Also like MBaraso said, throw some pasta in too. Gotta feed the need bro..

[mmaximus25]

Originally posted by Cock Diesel155
Just eat man.. Your metabolism is so high you don't have to worry about getting fat.

That's not the case for all bro. Yes your metabolism is operating at a higher rate but that doesn't mean you wont get fat. I believe the best lean growth comes from just over the individual’s maintenance intake of cals. Unless you know how to really lean with out losing major muscle mass just eating everything in site won’t work for you. I'm gonna go out on a limb a say, I estimate about 85% of the people that say they're bulking have never dieted down to under 6% BF. And most associate bulking by eating what they call a shit load. What is a shit load and how much? Ya know. Do you mean 8000 cals and I wont stop until I'm 30lbs heavier then I will lean down with a goal of keeping 15lb of muscle and BF of 6%. Everyone is different and 5000 cals might be too much. You must have a goal and you have to track that goal. A large amount of lean mass comes from a clean calculated diet just above maintenance level. And maintenance level is hard to figure when you already have a lot of BF. So the best thing to do is to lean to 10%BF or under and gage your cal intake to bodily function anomalies.
Even if Bulking most individuals including my self never stay at that 25% BF increased weight long enough; long enough for your body to reach the muscle maturity at your prospected diet down weight. You probably know this but the bro asking above may not and say just eat wont guide the bro, ya know…

[Slypknot]

Thanks everyone - specially maximus for the effort and links.
I'll continue to do more research. I think coming from such a high BF prior (probably around 30% if that's possible), a beer belly, man boobs, etc - Once I trimmed down I got in my mind if I ate a lot I would return to that fat bro once again. I actually trained myself NOT to be hungry, not to consume many carbs and not to consume much during each meal. I got the 6 meals down a day alright, but they were snacks I suppose when doing a bulk cycle.

As with anything for the first time, it's all a learning experience and all good. If I don't get the 'perfect' results from this cycle (which I'm sure I wont based on all the feedback I've received for all my questions) then I'll learn and be that much more edu-macated for the next run at it.

For now though I will work on adding some carbs, pasta or better yet rice...hell, I could mix in rice with my chicken just to make it easy. I'll also up my morning breakfast to two oatmeal packets and throw one in at night on top of the shake.

I assume all this of course stops once the cycle is over - and I should go back to the normal consumtion of calories/carbs/protein I had prior to running it. Once again, it's all about learning and individualizing a diet. I read so much about 5000 calories a day, and was just really worried that with my stats, age, etc that I'd just swell up, get stretch marks, look like a football player and not have any definition. But, being new to AS, maybe that IS what a bulk cycle is like. Hard to tell from viewing other's before/after pictures when bulking up - most look like they just added hard muscle and grew...rather than just density/fat/etc.

I'll keep focused and monitor my daily 'status' be it tired, headaches, etc...and try to base my diet on that for now...which makes total sense.

Slyp

[mmaximus25]

Slypknot, it sounds like you were basically consuming fewer calories than you burned during the day. That's good. That will continue to lean you up and the AS will help preserve muscle mass. Look into a thermogenic, Alpha Lipoic Acid and a light diuretic to assist you in your effort. I use an over the counter called Animal Cuts by Universal that has each in it.
Before and after pics... yeah I don't bulk anymore when gaining. In fact when I start a gaining program I raise my cals over maintenance (maintenance being 3500-4000) pick the BW and shoot over it. And yes, most when bulking are merely consuming a little over their maintenance and adding lean mass. If they were truly bulking you would purposely add a % of fat to you frame because your effort is to mature the lean mass added then cut away the fat. I try and add lean mass only, it’s harder to do that way and you really must be some what lean to gage your progress better. (10-13%bf)
I think you should still graph your daily intake in grams to cals just so you can start to determine and log how your body feels with however many calories you’re eating. Ex. eating 2500-3000 cals a day with a BF of 30% should start leaning you up.

I can send you a diet down tech I use. If you implement a little cardio in the morning and a thermogenic during cardio and training sessions the max is around 1lb of fat a week you can uses as fuel. I use a test while on this diet down to preserve as much muscle mass as possible. I will tell you now it works by grams to body weight and consumption around every two hours. You will be eating around 8-10 times a day but small meals. This is an extreme diet down and you will need to take extra precautions to keep muscle mass. This being Vitamins, Minerals, Amino Acids and of course your test of choice I use propionate or enanthate a deca will work also. This is not the typical let me use a cutting stack... I don’t believe in that shit. Is all diet bro... And with a drastic diet down you’ll loose a higher % of lean mass on anabolics alone. I’m not saying you couldn’t stack a winny with your deca, enanthate, ya know… just not anabolics alone… I can get under 4% using enanthate and deca or prop and deca...
Good luck with your progress and learning. Your main job is to learn your body and how to feed, train and supplement that body... good luck

[Cock Diesel155]

Originally posted by mmaximus25


That's not the case for all bro. Yes your metabolism is operating at a higher rate but that doesn't mean you wont get fat. I believe the best lean growth comes from just over the individual’s maintenance intake of cals. Unless you know how to really lean with out losing major muscle mass just eating everything in site won’t work for you. I'm gonna go out on a limb a say, I estimate about 85% of the people that say they're bulking have never dieted down to under 6% BF. And most associate bulking by eating what they call a shit load. What is a shit load and how much? Ya know. Do you mean 8000 cals and I wont stop until I'm 30lbs heavier then I will lean down with a goal of keeping 15lb of muscle and BF of 6%. Everyone is different and 5000 cals might be too much. You must have a goal and you have to track that goal. A large amount of lean mass comes from a clean calculated diet just above maintenance level. And maintenance level is hard to figure when you already have a lot of BF. So the best thing to do is to lean to 10%BF or under and gage your cal intake to bodily function anomalies.
Even if Bulking most individuals including my self never stay at that 25% BF increased weight long enough; long enough for your body to reach the muscle maturity at your prospected diet down weight. You probably know this but the bro asking above may not and say just eat wont guide the bro, ya know…

Your right.. Sometimes I forget that everyone's body IS different.. Good post bro.