20 Week Cycle Length ?

[iGOTstrongBICEPS]

Anything wrong with a 20 week straight test cycle ? Just putting out there . Making Plans for my next cycle ,

[PistolStarta]

you'll stop making gains around week 8-10 and shut yourself down harder?

[iGOTstrongBICEPS]

you'll stop making gains around week 8-10 and shut yourself down harder?

Gotcha , thats all i needed to hear lol

[Lifeguard102]

Dude. come on are you kidding?
Yes you will get shut down from test at 20 weeks but show me data that you won't get shut down at 2 weeks, or 4, or 6.
Test will shut you down.

You will gain more from a longer cycle. You will gain past 8 weeks 10 weeks , 12 weeks for sure. No doubt.

To avoid shut down run HCG from day one.
Some use HCG during cycle the way others use test with every cycle.

The longer the better as long as you see your doc, protect yourself with tests, and run a solid pct when off cycle.

[scotty51312]

You're peak gains will come at week 8-12 after that you're body starts to become more accustomed to the high levels of Test. Not saying you wouldn't make gains in weeks 12-20 but if you do they wouldn't come as fast as the gains in week 8-12

[iGOTstrongBICEPS]

Dude. come on are you kidding?
Yes you will get shut down from test at 20 weeks but show me data that you won't get shut down at 2 weeks, or 4, or 6.
Test will shut you down.

You will gain more from a longer cycle. You will gain past 8 weeks 10 weeks , 12 weeks for sure. No doubt.

To avoid shut down run HCG from day one.
Some use HCG during cycle the way others use test with every cycle.

The longer the better as long as you see your doc, protect yourself with tests, and run a solid pct when off cycle.

So now it is fine ? What if i were to run a 20 week test cyp cycle or enanthate ? Run HCG with it from week 1 , would i include the HCG in the PCT aswell?

[scotty51312]

if you were going to do that i'd run no less than a 6 or 7 week PCT

[Stiffmeister]

Dude. come on are you kidding?
Yes you will get shut down from test at 20 weeks but show me data that you won't get shut down at 2 weeks, or 4, or 6.
Test will shut you down.

You will gain more from a longer cycle. You will gain past 8 weeks 10 weeks , 12 weeks for sure. No doubt.

To avoid shut down run HCG from day one.
Some use HCG during cycle the way others use test with every cycle.

The longer the better as long as you see your doc, protect yourself with tests, and run a solid pct when off cycle.

This is interesting....why would ronnie roland post a MASSIVE thread explaining why past 8 weeks the effects of AAS slow to a snails pace thus the need to slingshot? It's a stickied post btw so im left wondering once again.........

[ronnin]

Stick to 12 weeks or less. The gains you make after 12 weeks are offset by the effort required to bring you natural hormone levels back to pre-cycle.

[PistolStarta]

You're peak gains will come at week 8-12 after that you're body starts to become more accustomed to the high levels of Test. Not saying you wouldn't make gains in weeks 12-20 but if you do they wouldn't come as fast as the gains in week 8-12

Yea, thats what I was saying. if paying for and pinning an extra 8 weeks for a few lbs and 24weeks off to recover is worth it to you. then ok

[Archangel.]

So now it is fine ? What if i were to run a 20 week test cyp cycle or enanthate? Run HCG with it from week 1 , would i include the HCG in the PCT aswell?

Dude, I will solve this for you right now, and LISTEN to what I say. SCROLL UP AND READ THE THREAD "You'll want to read this" by Ronnie Rowland. He is one of THE most respected authorities on this forum regarding steroids , and his WHOLE THEORY is about 20 WEEK CYCLES. Trust me, read it through as much as you can, then ask questions if need be on his thread, but read as much as possible before you ask. You will NOT be disappointed. I followed his theory to a T for my first ever test e cycle, and I made RETARDED gains! So much so that half the people on this forum cried BULLSHIT to my before and after pics. If you wanna see them, I'll show you. Trust me brother, case closed.

[Stiffmeister]

Dude, I will solve this for you right now, and LISTEN to what I say. SCROLL UP AND READ THE THREAD "You'll want to read this" by Ronnie Rowland. He is one of THE most respected authorities on this forum regarding steroids, and his WHOLE THEORY is about 20 WEEK CYCLES. Trust me, read it through as much as you can, then ask questions if need be on his thread, but read as much as possible before you ask. You will NOT be disappointed. I followed his theory to a T for my first ever test e cycle, and I made RETARDED gains! So much so that half the people on this forum cried BULLSHIT to my before and after pics. If you wanna see them, I'll show you. Trust me brother, case closed.

ahah "retarded" gains. That made my day. As for ronnie's STS method, i agree bro its probably amazing!!!

[Sicko]

Why would you want to run a test cycle that long? If your looking for better gains stack the test with another AAS and run higher doses.IMO

[iGOTstrongBICEPS]

Dude, I will solve this for you right now, and LISTEN to what I say. SCROLL UP AND READ THE THREAD "You'll want to read this" by Ronnie Rowland. He is one of THE most respected authorities on this forum regarding steroids, and his WHOLE THEORY is about 20 WEEK CYCLES. Trust me, read it through as much as you can, then ask questions if need be on his thread, but read as much as possible before you ask. You will NOT be disappointed. I followed his theory to a T for my first ever test e cycle, and I made RETARDED gains! So much so that half the people on this forum cried BULLSHIT to my before and after pics. If you wanna see them, I'll show you. Trust me brother, case closed.

Reading it now.

[Archangel.]

ahah "retarded" gains. That made my day. As for ronnie's STS method, i agree bro its probably amazing!!!

Lol, you what bro, I'm honestly speaking from experience. I actually walked the walk so to speak.

[Archangel.]

Reading it now.

Good to hear

[D7M]

Why don't we start with your stats and cycle experience,

then we can debate longer cycles/STS/etc, etc...

[Stiffmeister]

Lol, you what bro, I'm honestly speaking from experience. I actually walked the walk so to speak.

aha idk, it justed sounded hilarious reading it. And I agree with you and hopefully I will have the same retardedly (not a word I know, but for the sake of the context) results.

[marcus300]

God there is some bad advice on here by newbies lol

I'm sure you will try a 20 wks cycle at some stage but in all honesty you dont really want to be shut down for all those wks, the longer your HPTA is shut down the harder the recovery. Everyone is different some people prefer longer cycles and some shorter cycles its something what your going to have to learn from your cycle history to work out what is best for your regarding gains vs sides.

I wouldn't listen to newbies telling you to run 20 wk cycles there are many fools on here who have simple no idea what they are talking about, they had no base to work from when they cycled and then suddenly think they know it all because they built some muscle, then they come on here and lie about stuff and then try and pretend they know everything when in reality they no nothing, its laughable, you need to listen to guys with experience rather than guys with one cycle under their belt who lie and cheat everyone!

Facts are, running longer cycles will shut your body down hard and will create a harder time in recovery IMHO, you can run an aggression PCT and use HCG throughout the cycle but do really think your going to keep on gaining for all those wks while on cycle! if this was true I would be 500lbs+ at 3 % bf. The body builds and grows muscle in burst's that's either babies,teenagers or adults it kind of cycles its growth. So my advice would be run a cycle and stop it when you start to see gains slow or stop, the average when gains start to slow can be between 6-10 wks. Why carry on when your body as had enough? all your going to do is create more sides for yourself to get over.

I prefer shorter cycle what are built around a prime, this method (prime) creates the growth window your looking for and then you hit a cycle and you build some amazing gains with little or very low sides, recovery is easy and gains are easily maintainable due to recovery of your natural test.

What are your stats and cycle history?

[Stiffmeister]

God there is some bad advice on here by newbies lol

I'm sure you will try a 20 wks cycle at some stage but in all honesty you dont really want to be shut down for all those wks, the longer your HPTA is shut down the harder the recovery. Everyone is different some people prefer longer cycles and some shorter cycles its something what your going to have to learn from your cycle history to work out what is best for your regarding gains vs sides.

I wouldn't listen to newbies telling you to run 20 wk cycles there are many fools on here who have simple no idea what they are talking about, they had no base to work from when they cycled and then suddenly think they know it all because they built some muscle, then they come on here and lie about stuff and then try and pretend they know everything when in reality they no nothing, its laughable, you need to listen to guys with experience rather than guys with one cycle under their belt who lie and cheat everyone!

Facts are, running longer cycles will shut your body down hard and will create a harder time in recovery IMHO, you can run an aggression PCT and use HCG throughout the cycle but do really think your going to keep on gaining for all those wks while on cycle! if this was true I would be 500lbs+ at 3 % bf. The body builds and grows muscle in burst's that's either babies,teenagers or adults it kind of cycles its growth. So my advice would be run a cycle and stop it when you start to see gains slow or stop, the average when gains start to slow can be between 6-10 wks. Why carry on when your body as had enough? all your going to do is create more sides for yourself to get over.

I prefer shorter cycle what are built around a prime, this method (prime) creates the growth window your looking for and then you hit a cycle and you build some amazing gains with little or very low sides, recovery is easy and gains are easily maintainable due to recovery of your natural test.

What are your stats and cycle history?

So Marcus do you agree with Ronnie Roland's type of cycling in the slingshot system? It seems similar to what you prefer times of low anabolics, less protein/carbs, less training, to create a prime.

it seems the old ways of cycling are working there way out of the community...or at least they should be.

[tembe]

God there is some bad advice on here by newbies lol

I'm sure you will try a 20 wks cycle at some stage but in all honesty you dont really want to be shut down for all those wks, the longer your HPTA is shut down the harder the recovery. Everyone is different some people prefer longer cycles and some shorter cycles its something what your going to have to learn from your cycle history to work out what is best for your regarding gains vs sides.

I wouldn't listen to newbies telling you to run 20 wk cycles there are many fools on here who have simple no idea what they are talking about, they had no base to work from when they cycled and then suddenly think they know it all because they built some muscle, then they come on here and lie about stuff and then try and pretend they know everything when in reality they no nothing, its laughable, you need to listen to guys with experience rather than guys with one cycle under their belt who lie and cheat everyone!

Facts are, running longer cycles will shut your body down hard and will create a harder time in recovery IMHO, you can run an aggression PCT and use HCG throughout the cycle but do really think your going to keep on gaining for all those wks while on cycle! if this was true I would be 500lbs+ at 3 % bf. The body builds and grows muscle in burst's that's either babies,teenagers or adults it kind of cycles its growth. So my advice would be run a cycle and stop it when you start to see gains slow or stop, the average when gains start to slow can be between 6-10 wks. Why carry on when your body as had enough? all your going to do is create more sides for yourself to get over.

I prefer shorter cycle what are built around a prime, this method (prime) creates the growth window your looking for and then you hit a cycle and you build some amazing gains with little or very low sides, recovery is easy and gains are easily maintainable due to recovery of your natural test.

What are your stats and cycle history?

great advice there

[iGOTstrongBICEPS]

God there is some bad advice on here by newbies lol

I'm sure you will try a 20 wks cycle at some stage but in all honesty you dont really want to be shut down for all those wks, the longer your HPTA is shut down the harder the recovery. Everyone is different some people prefer longer cycles and some shorter cycles its something what your going to have to learn from your cycle history to work out what is best for your regarding gains vs sides.

I wouldn't listen to newbies telling you to run 20 wk cycles there are many fools on here who have simple no idea what they are talking about, they had no base to work from when they cycled and then suddenly think they know it all because they built some muscle, then they come on here and lie about stuff and then try and pretend they know everything when in reality they no nothing, its laughable, you need to listen to guys with experience rather than guys with one cycle under their belt who lie and cheat everyone!

Facts are, running longer cycles will shut your body down hard and will create a harder time in recovery IMHO, you can run an aggression PCT and use HCG throughout the cycle but do really think your going to keep on gaining for all those wks while on cycle! if this was true I would be 500lbs+ at 3 % bf. The body builds and grows muscle in burst's that's either babies,teenagers or adults it kind of cycles its growth. So my advice would be run a cycle and stop it when you start to see gains slow or stop, the average when gains start to slow can be between 6-10 wks. Why carry on when your body as had enough? all your going to do is create more sides for yourself to get over.

I prefer shorter cycle what are built around a prime, this method (prime) creates the growth window your looking for and then you hit a cycle and you build some amazing gains with little or very low sides, recovery is easy and gains are easily maintainable due to recovery of your natural test.

What are your stats and cycle history?

Age : 27
208lbs. 14%BF
I have 2 cycles under my belt . I was two weeks into my third cycle until i tore my tendon in a 7 ON 7 football tournament . I had surgery to repair it and im going back into the gym next week . The cycle i was planning wont be for unti november, i dont wanna start until i know im 100%. Im not considering 20 weeks at all . I ll be running a simple test prop cycle for 8 weeks.

[Archangel.]

God there is some bad advice on here by newbies lol

I'm sure you will try a 20 wks cycle at some stage but in all honesty you dont really want to be shut down for all those wks, (Okay mighty Marcus, then WHY does Ronnie Rowland ADVISE a 20 week test only cycle @ 500mg/week for ALL the first timers whom ask his advice???) the longer your HPTA is shut down the harder the recovery. Everyone is different some people prefer longer cycles and some shorter cycles its something what your going to have to learn from your cycle history to work out what is best for your regarding gains vs sides.

I wouldn't listen to newbies telling you to run 20 wk cycles there are many fools on here who have simple no idea what they are talking about, (Uhh, Ronnie Rowland is no "newbie" as you call it, and he is the one who's 20 week STS I referred the OP to. So basically you're implying that Ronnie is a newbie then??) they had no base to work from when they cycled and then suddenly think they know it all because they built some muscle, then they come on here and lie about stuff and then try and pretend they know everything when in reality they no nothing, its laughable, (To the OP, I strongly feel that marcus is referring to myself here, and he is wrong on almost every account with the preceding statements. I NEVER claimed to know it all, as I actually deterred 99% of questions regarding AAS, I DID NOT lie about ANY of my transformation facts, save for the one instance I can remember where I claimed 15 weeks to something, and marcus cried "bullshit", with his argument being that "I caught you, it was actually 14 weeks", which only made my case that much STRONGER (thank you marcus , I still don't know how you walked right into that one). The one thing marcus is 100% right about here is that yes, I DID BUILD SOME MUSCLE! And I attribute 99% of my awesome muscle-building transformation to Ronnie Rowlands 20 week blast STS approach! So OP, please don't take everything marcus is saying here as gold. He is a VERY wise individual on this forum, but so are many others like Ronnie Rowland just to name one. Make up your own mind bud, and like I said, I can back up ALL of my claims. Good luck, and read all of that thread I advised to you!) you need to listen to guys with experience (absolutely agree, and this is why I don't advise on AAS) rather than guys with one cycle under their belt who lie and cheat everyone! (I personally NEVER did this)

Facts are, running longer cycles will shut your body down hard and will create a harder time in recovery IMHO, you can run an aggression PCT and use HCG throughout the cycle but do really think your going to keep on gaining for all those wks while on cycle! if this was true I would be 500lbs+ at 3 % bf. The body builds and grows muscle in burst's that's either babies,teenagers or adults it kind of cycles its growth. So my advice would be run a cycle and stop it when you start to see gains slow or stop, the average when gains start to slow can be between 6-10 wks. Why carry on when your body as had enough? all your going to do is create more sides for yourself to get over.
(Ronnie's theory is that the longer cycle helps to ensure one will keep more gains post cycle, as opposed to a shorter one)

I prefer shorter cycle what are built around a prime, this method (prime) creates the growth window your looking for and then you hit a cycle and you build some amazing gains with little or very low sides, recovery is easy and gains are easily maintainable due to recovery of your natural test.

What are your stats and cycle history?

This is an important question that should have been asked right away

[marcus300]

^^^
The word fool comes to mind everytime I see your posts, my god you have alot to learn. Your stating a 20 wk cycle is the way to go for a newbie who hasnt given you his stats is completely madness, this advice is coming from a young guy who has done one cycle or maybe two, who doesn't have any experience and who has tunnel vision thinking there is one method of cycling.

Ive no idea what Ronnie advices newbies I never mentioned Ronnie once, but let me state this before you go around putting words in my mouth like a child, I respect Ronnie immensely and he has a lot of knowledge and experience but if he advices a newbie to implement a 20wk cycle I would disagree with him but that just two different opinions coming from two experienced guys, i persosnally think its to harsh for someone new starting out. Ive done plenty bridged cycles to understand the recover is harsher than shorter cycles and for me it isn't worth it especially to a newbie who doesnt know how he reacts to AAS, I am not saying the STS is no good but more for someone who is advanced rather than a newbie, I am also not stating one method is better than another, I am stating my opinion on the question the OP asked.

If you read my post I said "I wouldn't listen to newbies telling you to run 20 wk cycles there are many fools on here who have simple no idea what they are talking about" that was directed to you because you are a newbie and you dont have enough experience to know what your talking about, its not directed at Ronnie like you state, lol

I am also not arguing with you about your pics on this thread, ive never mentioned them on here so why bring it up, you was caught out lying about your progress and time scales and you trying to convince people different is laughable lol, I'm sorry if i hit a nerve and made you look like a liar but move on and stop going on about them in threads what have nothing to do with them, your making it worse lol, ive also had enough pm's about your silly posts and threads to know what people think.
You stated your advice which your entitled to do and i stated mine, leave it at that let the OP read and research no need to come back all defensive like a hurt child. Calm down and chill out, if you want to carry on debating about your issues do it via pm please but dont destory this thread, keep it on track.

[baseline_9]

Dude. come on are you kidding?
Yes you will get shut down from test at 20 weeks but show me data that you won't get shut down at 2 weeks, or 4, or 6.
Test will shut you down.

You will gain more from a longer cycle. You will gain past 8 weeks 10 weeks , 12 weeks for sure. No doubt.

To avoid shut down run HCG from day one.
Some use HCG during cycle the way others use test with every cycle.

The longer the better as long as you see your doc, protect yourself with tests, and run a solid pct when off cycle.

IMO this is all bad advice^^^

Lack of general knowlege about how compounds work

I would advise you to read a HCG profile, it will not stop shutdown, quite the opposite, it may help recovery of the HPTA in PCT if ran on cycle, but will not stop shutdown

[Swifto]

If you run a 20 week cycle you sure as f*ck should be prepared for PCT (HCG throughout).

I wouldnt advocate a 20 week cycle to a newbie, not a chance. I dont think Ronnie does that either for a newbie, I'll have to read his thread again.

Ronnie's STS approach is based on changing a single factor (or a few) during the 20 week phase. You can do much more than that depending on your goals.

Chanage volume, intensity, diet, doses of androgens, introduce new androgens, more androgenic /anabolic compounds... The list is fairly long when wanting to gain for a solid 20 weeks of longer. Gains will slow and the majority of things you can do to carry on gaining also causes further health risks.

[Stiffmeister]

If you run a 20 week cycle you sure as f*ck should be prepared for PCT (HCG throughout).

I wouldnt advocate a 20 week cycle to a newbie, not a chance. I dont think Ronnie does that either for a newbie, I'll have to read his thread again.

Ronnie's STS approach is based on changing a single factor (or a few) during the 20 week phase. You can do much more than that depending on your goals.

Chanage volume, intensity, diet, doses of androgens, introduce new androgens, more androgenic/anabolic compounds... The list is fairly long when wanting to gain for a solid 20 weeks of longer. Gains will slow and the majority of things you can do to carry on gaining also causes further health risks.

agreed and even ronnie recommeneds HCG throughout if you are really worried about HPTA shutdown. And in his STS during the deload phase you cut down on the amount of androgens in your system so catabolic hormones recede during the 2 week deload. Then anither reload consists of the regular dosage you started with. IMO this is better for both reducing some sides and gaining more muscle in same span of time than any other method used. Just the fact that you can customize it, makes it even better. But back to what we were saying, of course a newbie shouldnt attempt this if it's their first cycle. Their HPTA would take a beating like the Dodgers did last night aha. Go Giants!! (1st place in NL)

[DOUBLE J]

Now what about a more advanced lifter that is all ready on HRT?

[marcus300]

Now what about a more advanced lifter that is all ready on HRT?

You need to start your own thread, but blast and cruise is the normal

[Bertuzzi]

Just wanted to say.... this is a great thread with good and bad advice... People can learn a lot by reading this thread.... what to listen to and what not to listen to.

OP, take the advice from Pistol, Marcus and Swifto.... Play it safe my friend.... I too am still a n00b with this stuff and over the last year of research have discovered that long cycles are not the way.... I'm just finishing an 8 week cycle after a prime, like Marcus had mentioned in his first post in this thread. Cycle was 75mg/ed of Test Prop and 60mg/ed of Tbol.... I have 3 more injects to do and I am done... So far I gained 30lbs.... no Bullshit and I have people on the board who can atest to the results. Granted I will not keep all those gains but I doubt you'll get better than that in a 20 weel cycle!

POlay it smart, do your research and listen to the people who know what they are talking about!

Good Luck

[marcus300]

Just wanted to say.... this is a great thread with good and bad advice... People can learn a lot by reading this thread.... what to listen to and what not to listen to.

OP, take the advice from Pistol, Marcus and Swifto.... Play it safe my friend.... I too am still a n00b with this stuff and over the last year of research have discovered that long cycles are not the way.... I'm just finishing an 8 week cycle after a prime, like Marcus had mentioned in his first post in this thread. Cycle was 75mg/ed of Test Prop and 60mg/ed of Tbol.... I have 3 more injects to do and I am done... So far I gained 30lbs.... no Bullshit and I have people on the board who can atest to the results. Granted I will not keep all those gains but I doubt you'll get better than that in a 20 weel cycle!

POlay it smart, do your research and listen to the people who know what they are talking about!

Good Luck

Excellent post and thankyou,

primming and hitting a short cycle creates great gains, I am pleased you have experienced this, recovery should be good and maintenance should be even better, well done thats some mighty gains

[Bertuzzi]

Excellent post and thankyou,

primming and hitting a short cycle creates great gains, I am pleased you have experienced this, recovery should be good and maintenance should be even better, well done thats some mighty gains

I am pleased with the results, even though I had second thoughts of doing the cycle when I did, but was reassured by many of you on the board.

Thanks again!

[iGOTstrongBICEPS]

Just wanted to say.... this is a great thread with good and bad advice... People can learn a lot by reading this thread.... what to listen to and what not to listen to.

OP, take the advice from Pistol, Marcus and Swifto.... Play it safe my friend.... I too am still a n00b with this stuff and over the last year of research have discovered that long cycles are not the way.... I'm just finishing an 8 week cycle after a prime, like Marcus had mentioned in his first post in this thread. Cycle was 75mg/ed of Test Prop and 60mg/ed of Tbol.... I have 3 more injects to do and I am done... So far I gained 30lbs.... no Bullshit and I have people on the board who can atest to the results. Granted I will not keep all those gains but I doubt you'll get better than that in a 20 weel cycle!

POlay it smart, do your research and listen to the people who know what they are talking about!

Good Luck

Im still planning my cycle and right now im thinking Test Prop 100mg/ED and thats it for 8 weeks. Looks good so far ? PCT will include nolvadex and clomid.

[Bertuzzi]

Im still planning my cycle and right now im thinking Test Prop 100mg/ED and thats it for 8 weeks. Looks good so far ? PCT will include nolvadex and clomid.

Sounds fine, but 75mg/ed may be good too, depends on your previous cycles doses, whichever works well for you.

I must insist that you do a search in the main forum "priming" and "prime" If you prime properly, that is where the "magic" happens... well at least that's what I was told.... I listened and I would say 30lbs in 8 weeks is Magic

Here is a good thread on priming, but there are many others....

The prime explained before cycling

If you follow the advice I was given and now trying to pass on to you, you will be extremely happy... this I promise you.

Good Luck!

[oker]

"I’ve no idea what Ronnie advices newbies...." (quoted from marcus)

This is easy to resolve...if you read any of Ronnies posts carefully on sling-shot training, or other, I’ve seen him quote, ‘this advice/information is for advanced users only’. The exact wording I forget, but something along these lines.

Whether Ronnie is talking about sling-shot, AAS use, diet, etc, I believe it's clear he’s offering this advice for advanced BB's and by no means ever advocated a 20 week cycle or sling-shot to be intended for the novice BB.

END NOTE: btw in the sling-shot training technique Ronnie never suggested a 20 week cycle but actually suggests a minimum 8 weeks/reload then 2 weeks deload and then reload again. He even goes on to say that you make less gains after 8 weeks hence the reasoning for the short bursts - to lesson sides and to “…encourage receptor sites to become more sensitive…” This should NOT be confused by a 20 week straight cycle at the same dose - below I have quoted Ronnie’s discourse regarding the SH training method. In short, the facts have to be presented correctly:

“Slingshot training works by reloading with more volume while your on an 8 week anabolic steroid cycle or 8 week pro-hormone cycle, etc. Anabolics have been shown to work best for approximately 8 weeks. After that point, additional muscle gains slow dramatically and you would need to use higher amounts drugs or supplements to advance further. The problem with that approach is unwanted side effects. So in order to keep making maximum progress you come off a heavy cycle by lowering the amount of anabolics used, do a pct, or bridge with a small dose of anabolics for 2 weeks-all while reducing training volume and protein intake. This 2 week period of reducing volume and protein is called a deload and it encourages receptor sites to become more sensitive to anabolics so that when you return to another (steroid cycle/reload) you'll make more gains with less side effects“.

[Stiffmeister]

"I’ve no idea what Ronnie advices newbies...." (quoted from marcus)

This is easy to resolve...if you read any of Ronnies posts carefully on sling-shot training, or other, I’ve seen him quote, ‘this advice/information is for advanced users only’. The exact wording I forget, but something along these lines.

Whether Ronnie is talking about sling-shot, AAS use, diet, etc, I believe it's clear he’s offering this advice for advanced BB's and by no means ever advocated a 20 week cycle or sling-shot to be intended for the novice BB.

END NOTE: btw in the sling-shot training technique Ronnie never suggested a 20 week cycle but actually suggests a minimum 8 weeks/reload then 2 weeks deload and then reload again. He even goes on to say that you make less gains after 8 weeks hence the reasoning for the short bursts - to lesson sides and to “…encourage receptor sites to become more sensitive…” This should NOT be confused by a 20 week straight cycle at the same dose - below I have quoted Ronnie’s discourse regarding the SH training method. In short, the facts have to be presented correctly:

“Slingshot training works by reloading with more volume while your on an 8 week anabolic steroid cycle or 8 week pro-hormone cycle, etc. Anabolics have been shown to work best for approximately 8 weeks. After that point, additional muscle gains slow dramatically and you would need to use higher amounts drugs or supplements to advance further. The problem with that approach is unwanted side effects. So in order to keep making maximum progress you come off a heavy cycle by lowering the amount of anabolics used, do a pct, or bridge with a small dose of anabolics for 2 weeks-all while reducing training volume and protein intake. This 2 week period of reducing volume and protein is called a deload and it encourages receptor sites to become more sensitive to anabolics so that when you return to another (steroid cycle/reload) you'll make more gains with less side effects“.

thank you, glad someone cleared this up, its what ive been meaning to explain. The reload/deload system is almost exactly like priming...in fact it IS. You drop the AAS dosage ALOT, cut back on protein/carbs etc, go lighter when lifting, and this creates a prime for the next reload.

[marcus300]

thank you, glad someone cleared this up, its what ive been meaning to explain. The reload/deload system is almost exactly like priming...in fact it IS. You drop the AAS dosage ALOT, cut back on protein/carbs etc, go lighter when lifting, and this creates a prime for the next reload.

Its nothing like pre cycle primming,

A pre cycle prime is to create a very anabolic environment for when you start a cycle,this opens the growth window for tissue to grow fast, you don't run any AAS in the prime, you simply make the muscle receptors very excitable to upgrade and take in more glucose, this is done over 6-8 weeks and then you hit a short cycle, no need for long cycles with this method because you can gain the same or even more muscle with less sides, excellent recovery and good maintenance.

In the STS your running two 8 weeks cycles bridged together by 2 weeks low dose or even try and go through pct in 2 wks, your also mixing around with volume training by reloading/deloading. IMHO you cant recover in those 2 weeks doing pct and to be honest even with the low does your going to be on cycle and shutdown for 18 wks+, this is completely different than running a prime then hitting a short cycle.

Ive ran both systems many times and I personally prefer the short cycle linked to a prime, but each to their own

[Stiffmeister]

Its nothing like pre cycle primming,

A pre cycle prime is to create a very anabolic environment for when you start a cycle,this opens the growth window for tissue to grow fast, you don't run any AAS in the prime, you simply make the muscle receptors very excitable to upgrade and take in more glucose, this is done over 6-8 weeks and then you hit a short cycle, no need for long cycles with this method because you can gain the same or even more muscle with less sides, excellent recovery and good maintenance.

In the STS your running two 8 weeks cycles bridged together by 2 weeks low dose or even try and go through pct in 2 wks, your also mixing around with volume training by reloading/deloading. IMHO you cant recover in those 2 weeks doing pct and to be honest even with the low does your going to be on cycle and shutdown for 18 wks+, this is completely different than running a prime then hitting a short cycle.

Ive ran both systems many times and I personally prefer the short cycle linked to a prime.

I apologize, you're absolutely right, I read the thread you posted about priming. So in priming, the 3 days of lower carbs and 1 high carb day allows muscle to be spared because of the high carb day which is why its important to do it correctly and overcompensate on the high day or your loose muscle, but at the same time it allows your body to become more productive and storing carbs and glycogen and increases insulin sensitivity so when you do run another short cycle, you have dramatic gains? Wow that sounds even more amazing then ronnies STS. Especially because it allows HPTA recovery but not long enough to start losing gains if diet is on track. hmm...I think you've suddenly got me hooked Marcus. I was a little weary of ronnies system because i dont want to be on TRT this young and 20 week cycles increase the chances of needing it. So do you feel priming allows you to build muscle more quickly and retain it better than ANY other way of cycling?

[marcus300]

I apologize, you're absolutely right, I read the thread you posted about priming. So in priming, the 3 days of lower carbs and 1 high carb day allows muscle to be spared because of the high carb day which is why its important to do it correctly and overcompensate on the high day or your loose muscle, but at the same time it allows your body to become more productive and storing carbs and glycogen and increases insulin sensitivity so when you do run another short cycle, you have dramatic gains? Wow that sounds even more amazing then ronnies STS. Especially because it allows HPTA recovery but not long enough to start losing gains if diet is on track. hmm...I think you've suddenly got me hooked Marcus. I was a little weary of ronnies system because i dont want to be on TRT this young and 20 week cycles increase the chances of needing it. So do you feel priming allows you to build muscle more quickly and retain it better than ANY other way of cycling?

Yes I do, check out my short cycle thread it will give you an idea what it consist of. I've used many systems but that's the one I've responded best to for gains vs sides. If you do it correctly the gains are amazing for sure.

There are also many ways to prime the body the 3 day low 1 day high carb diet is a way to slowly produce this environment but there are many other ways to prime.

[oker]

thank you, glad someone cleared this up, its what ive been meaning to explain. The reload/deload system is almost exactly like priming...in fact it IS. You drop the AAS dosage ALOT, cut back on protein/carbs etc, go lighter when lifting, and this creates a prime for the next reload.

Agree with Marcus on this - and Ronnie defines the difference clearly between reload/deload/prime...short version: while on reload one uses ASS to their fullest potential or run at full cycle. On deload you have the choice of 1. lowering the dose, or 2. doing pct. The prime is something completely different whereby Ronnie suggests that you do NOT use any AAS, as Marcus has also said - to ad to that, Ronnie also goes on to mention that one should use the prime ONLY when u hit stagnation point, for example, burn-out or over-training. That is, you could stop training completely for a period of time or weight sets or work loads are reduced during the prime to make nuscles more responsive.

The STS is obviously for the experienced user or more specifically would be best suited for the BB doing TRT or HRT, or the professional, ‘competing’ BB. It should certainly NOT be recommended as a system to be used by the novice AAS user.