First Cycle Blocking DHT

[RoidBoid]

Well, im looking to run a 10week test e cycle with maybe a little deca or eq in with it.. im a pro athlete and have TRIED cycles before, when i say tried i mean i did cycles without PCT and somehow managed to get alopecia.. a small patch of hairloss that occured 3-4months after a cycle and took 3-4 months to re-grow again.

I never thought i would try aas again as obviously have a patch of hairloss is not the best in the world when your in your mid 20's, but ive hit my natraul block and im weighing up doing a cycle again.

the use of niz shampoo, duta , saw palmetto , b5 etc.. running anti-e throughout the course and maybe starting the pct in week 10 to balance the blood levels out.

EXPERIANCED aas users please pitch in

1-10 - test e 500mg p/w
1-10 - deca/eq 250mg p/w
0-10 - nolva
10 > pct clomid & a different anti e

my goal is to increase muscle mass and gain some very lean muscle.. im 7% bf at the moment and just want to increase muscle size, also to avoid if possible me getting alopecia again.

[Swifto]

Were you using a new compound last time when experiencing hairloss?

Have you cycled before without hairloss?

[RoidBoid]

hi swifto please you had a read..

Its wierd and from the more experianced bodybuilders,vets and aas users ive spoken to nobody seems to understand it

basically every cycle ive done, even a mild 6week tbol only cycle, about 2-3 months after finishing i get alopecia, a small patch that grows to about a 50p size and doesnt grow back for a number of months. Ive not done a cycle without this happening, but then again ive not done a cycle with proper protocol i.e pct

whats your ideas?

[MBMETC]

have you had your thyroid checked hyperthyroidism could cause hair loss, maybe gear aggrivates your thyroid somehow?...i dunno just puttin out there

[RoidBoid]

really, how would i go about getting that done? when you say get it checked... for what issues?

i know its grabbing at straws but nobody seems to ever have heard AAS triggering alopecia, i mean its not even in family history on either sides

[millionairemurph]

I have heard that an imbalance of test to estrogen, or estrogen it self can trigger alopecia. I have not had hairloss, i am no doctor. But just throwing it out there, maybe this is something to consider too? Seems to me that if you get hairloss from the cycle and then it grows back, both happening post cycle, this could be something to think of.

[MBMETC]

really, how would i go about getting that done? when you say get it checked... for what issues?

i know its grabbing at straws but nobody seems to ever have heard AAS triggering alopecia, i mean its not even in family history on either sides

simple blood test, looking for hyperthyroidism. again i dunno i just read your post earlier and googled alopecia talk to your doctor

[RoidBoid]

simple blood test, looking for hyperthyroidism. again i dunno i just read your post earlier and googled alopecia talk to your doctor

thats the problem mate, doctors here in the u.k dont have a scooby doo about aas and how it works with the body. I went in to the docs and asked to see a hormone specalists and they said no because of the use of aas.

so you think getting a blood test will do see, im not good with the levels if i post them up on here would someone be able to properly look at them?

[RoidBoid]

I have heard that an imbalance of test to estrogen, or estrogen it self can trigger alopecia. I have not had hairloss, i am no doctor. But just throwing it out there, maybe this is something to consider too? Seems to me that if you get hairloss from the cycle and then it grows back, both happening post cycle, this could be something to think of.

this is what i also looked into for a year, hence why i said id run anti e throughout and try and block as much dht as possible, but if im blocking dht and estrogen what will i gain if any?

[MBMETC]

i am currently on cycle 500 mg test e per week i am 40 and have a little less hair on the top off my head than i like, i am useing the topical spiro and as of now i haven't lost a hair. (knocking on wood) ar-r has it give it a try. the only negative is it smells and it is sticky and it is not supposed to inhibit gains

[RoidBoid]

sounds good, is that like the 2% niz shampoo i take it?

[MBMETC]

it blocks the dht from attatching to the hair folicle preventing the hair loss (supposadly)

[Swifto]

I think the culprit here is still DHT. That would mean Nizoral shampoo (chemist) or better Finastride on cycle.

Cant you just shave your head?

Although rare, alopcia is a side effect of those genetically determined by AAS and its very hard to treat from what I have been reading. I will read more and post what I find...

[Swifto]

Minoxidil

Wolff H, Kunte C. Current management of androgenetic alopecia in men. Eur J Dermatol 1999;9(8):606-9.

European Journal of Dermatology

In recent years, drug therapies have become the most promising approaches to the treatment of AGA. The first pharmaceutical to be approved for AGA in both men and women was minoxidil. Minoxidil is a piperidinopyrimidine derivative that was originally developed as a systemic vasodilator for the treatment of hypertension. In about 70% of patients, however, oral administration of minoxidil also leads to hypertrichosis of the face and extremities. The mechanism by which the potassium channel opener minoxidil exerts its effect on hair growth is unclear, although some in vitro evidence suggests that it acts directly on the cells of the hair follicle [23-26] and may induce growth factors that increase vascularization around the hair papilla. One study using laser Doppler velocimetry and photopulse plethysmography showed that cutaneous blood flow increased after application of topical minoxidil [27]. Overall, the mechanisms by which minoxidil inhibits AGA are still unknown.

A number of multicentre, large scale, double-blind trials have been conducted that compared minoxidil 2% or 3% used topically to its vehicle alone [28-32]. The duration of most studies was 12 or 24 months. However, due to their design or methodology, these studies on the whole have not been as conclusive as hoped, for instance because they were open-label rather than double-blind [33], or enrolled relatively small numbers. The major potential problem of these studies lies in the methodology of hair growth and loss assessment. Most studies counted the number of hairs within a specific area on the scalp at defined time intervals. However, this method has since been criticised [34]. In some cases, subjective assessments of new hair growth were also made by the investigator and the patient.

The overall conclusion was that treatment with minoxidil 2% induces the conversion of some vellus to terminal hairs, normalises the morphology of the hair follicles, and increases the number of follicles in mid to late anagen. In patients who used topical minoxidil 2% or 3%, mean hair counts were found to have increased after 12 months, and in some patients continued to increase thereafter [30-32, 35]. Nevertheless, fewer than 5-10% of patients report dense regrowth of hair [36, 37]. Recent data using 5% minoxidil suggest that this concentration stimulates up to 45% more growth than 2% minoxidil, and may induce a more rapid response. However, the majority of those treated do not report dense regrowth.

One puzzling phenomenon in many minoxidil studies is the fact that the vehicle control alone also induced increased hair growth. A major drawback of minoxidil is the fact that it must be applied twice daily, causing inconvenience and irritation of the scalp in some patients.


Hoffmann R, Happle R. Current understanding of androgenetic alopecia. Part II: clinical aspects and treatment. Eur J Dermatol 2000;10(5):410-7.

European Journal of Dermatology

Minoxidil (M) is a drug commonly leading to hypertrichosis in approx. 70% of patients treated systemically. This is apparent after a few weeks of systemic treatment and the hair will fall out 2 months after discontinuation of the drug. M is a pyrimidine derivative (2,4-diamono-6-piperidinopyrimidine-3-oxyde) initially developed as a potent antihypertensive agent [40-42]. In addition to being a direct-acting vasodilatator, it was unexpectantly found to stimulate hair growth in vivo, and this side effect led to its clinical use in AGA. It is so far unclear why M induces hair growth. M stimulates a time-dependent increase in 3[H]-thymidine and 35[s]-cysteine incorporation in mouse vibrissa follicles and it has been suggested that this effect is mediated via the K+ channels and that a sulphatated metabolite of M exerts this effect via M-sulfotransferase which is present in HF. A number of large multicenter, double-blind trials have been conducted that compared topical 2% or 3% M versus placebo [43-46]. The use of M has been shown to induce a conversion of vellus to terminal hairs in approx. 30% of patients. These studies, however, were not as conclusive as hoped. Many studies were open-labeled rather than double-blind and enrolled a rather small number of patients. Many studies switched to M treatment only after 4 months of placebo treatment thus making it difficult to interpret the results. As a consequence the efficacy of M is still a matter of debate [47-49]. Many studies have shown that non-vellus hair regrew at the margins but complete covering of the bald areas was seen in less than 10% of responders [50]. Others found in 18% of treated patients good results which were present in only 6% after additional 12 months [51]. In sum, several studies have shown that approx. 15% will experience some sort of hair regrowth, while 50% have their hair loss delayed and approx. 35% will continue to loose hair [52].


FYI: FREE DOWNLOAD

Stough D, Stenn K, Haber R, et al. Psychological effect, pathophysiology, and management of androgenetic alopecia in men. Mayo Clin Proc 2005;80(10):1316-22.
Psychological Effect, Pathophysiology, and Management of Androgenetic Alopecia in Men ? Mayo Clinic Proceedings

Androgenetic alopecia In men, or male pattern baldness, is recognized increasingly as a physically and psychologically harmful medical condition that can be managed effectively by generalist clinicians. This article discusses the clinical manifestations, epidemiology, physical and psychosocial importance, pathophysiology, diagnosis, and management of androgenetic alopecia in men. Androgenetic alopecia affects at least half of white men by the age of 50 years. Although androgenetic alopecia does not appear to cause direct physical harm, hair loss can result in physical harm because hair protects against sunburn, cold, mechanical injury, and ultraviolet light. Hair loss also can psychologically affect the balding individual and can Influence others' perceptions of him. A progressive condition, male pattern baldness is known to depend on the presence of the androgen dihydrotestosterone and on a genetic predisposition for this condition, but its pathophysiology has not been elucidated fully. Pharmacotherapy, hair transplantation, and cosmetic aids have been used to manage male pattern baldness. Two US Food and Drug Administration-approved hair-loss pharmacotherapies-the potassium channel opener minoxidil and the dihydrotestosterone synthesis inhibitor finasteride--are safe and effective for controlling male pattern baldness with long-term daily use. Regardless of which treatment modality is chosen for male pattern baldness, defining and addressing the patient's expectations regarding therapy are paramount in determining outcome.

[Swifto]

Have you changed your diet or beem stressed?

DHT
Stress
Hormone changes
Diet

Thats my list of things affecting is possibly.

[Swifto]

Hypogonadism (low testosterone) has been linked to alopecia in one case I have just read (familly), but its seems its very rare.

[MBMETC]

well hes definately stressed over this alopecia issue

[RoidBoid]

hehe .. no im a very laidback person, its not stress or diet related... my diet is very good, im an extremely fit 25year old X pro footballer.

from the year or so research and non replys from people i kind of gathered it was the DHT which needs breaking down but wiether itis this or not will be the problem, i will try duta maybe 2-3 weeks before i start and run that throughout with the niz everyday, as for the estrogen.. ill need to combat that aswel if the DHT level is dropped.

my father is diabetic and he is on trt i think ( just test booster ) but i mean hes 55.

before i cycled i was the worlds hornyest person, since i did cycle i calmed down a fair bit also.

[RoidBoid]

ive never had alopecia or heard of it in my family before i did a cycle, the longer or harsher the cycle the worse it was...

i was gyming with a friend few years back and he told me to do 20weeks of dbol and wini, which 3months later i lost half my hair, the back of my head was like a babys bum the doc said around 52% of my hair had gone, being in my early 20s this was devistating as it took a good 6months for full regrowth.

the only worrying thing is from what i read on alopecia, is that it could progress to total alopecia.. loss of all bodyhair and could never re-grow!

[MBMETC]

20 weeks of d-Bol are you f-ing kidding I hope you had your liver values checked and I hope you had liver protection when on cycle

[RoidBoid]

yep all results came back fine, thats what you get from listening to big guys eh.

i think im gonna go to the doctors today if possible and get some blood work done and post up the results.

i think my main aim is to lower the DHT conversion, i am about 90% sure though that even blocking this and lowering estrogen levels ill still get alopecia

would i be right to run anti -e throughout then start my pct on week 10 and have a 4 week pct

[MBMETC]

I would run the test 2 weeks longer than the deca and bump to 400mg, pxt should be 14 days after last pin and should go
Clomid/nova 100/100/50/50 40/40/20/20 you might want to get some caber for progestin related sides. What anti-e do you want to run on cycle? Good luck at the doc

[RoidBoid]

not sure on the anti-e to run throughout, the deca ive got is in 250mg per ml .. im not looking to gain alot of mass just got it sitting here and will help in build muscle, would the 250mg per week not be worthwhile?

pct 14days after is normal, but i was thinking of starting early to try and get bloodwork back to normal again.
doctors appointment next week

[Swifto]

I'd go with Duta/Finastride on cycle a few weeks beforehand. I think your going to find it very difficult to avoid mate.

[RoidBoid]

im thinking 2.5mg of fina a day, ill start 2-3 weeks before i start the course.. does anyone have the kick in times for finasteride? also how would you run the cycle

1-8 deca 250-500mg (not sure yet)
1-10 tese e 500mg
what dates should i start my pct as i want to get my levels back to normal asap really.