Test Goal Question

**Maxpower_sf1** · 09-30-2010, 07:24 PM

For my cycle my goal is to drop some BF while gaining a bit of muscle. I know much of this is dependent on my diet. I seem to maintain weight at 2700 calories. On a 12 week cycle of test (not sure which type yet) with a 3k calorie clean diet would I be able to achieve my goal?

Also which test (or even which steroid ) would be best for accomplishing this goal?

**boxin23** · 09-30-2010, 09:17 PM

As you will read if you research a little more here you will see many posts that quote "TEST IS TEST IS TEST" because test is test...its all the same....just different esters....the base compound TEST is TEST...will ALL do the same.

More important is your diet.....you need to know your TDEE.....sounds like you have a grip on your caloric intake needed to maintain your current weight. Now you need to know your TDEE. Eat above it roughly 500 cals and you will gain....if it is clean diet it will be lean gain....if it is dirt it will be fat.....eat BELOW your TDEE and you will cut......simple as that....DIET is key to everything and your question.....DIET is key. not which AAS you use.

You can exercise your ass off and use tons of gear and not eat properly and you will go no where.....good luck

**big_ron** · 09-30-2010, 09:36 PM

If you want to lean off while bulking haha i would suggest no carbs after a certain time at night, and empty stomach cardio for 45 mins in the morning 4+ times a week, and during the day eat as much as you want

**Maxpower_sf1** · 09-30-2010, 09:58 PM

Thanks for the response guys. I have seen a lot of guys gain a lot of mass and lose body fat when they start using gear. So I know the usual principle of calories in vs. calories out, but wondering what is they key to accomplish and mimic this? What i am getting is a clean bulk will yield these results.

**boxin23** · 09-30-2010, 10:19 PM

Originally Posted by Maxpower_sf1

Thanks for the response guys. I have seen a lot of guys gain a lot of mass and lose body fat when they start using gear. So I know the usual principle of calories in vs. calories out, but wondering what is they key to accomplish and mimic this? What i am getting is a clean bulk will yield these results.

Simply put....if you want to just put on as much mass as possible then you can dirty bulk (but still keep decent diet) just eat a ton of stuff....and you will gain a ton...but it will have some fat....

If you want lean gains throughout the bulk diet.....then eat clean....the cleaner the leaner.....my boxing coach use to say that...haha...he is right...

I think i said it all pretty well above with the TDEE thing above. Do you know your BMR and your TDEE?

**Maxpower_sf1** · 09-30-2010, 10:33 PM

My TDEE is 3000 and my BMR 1970.4

What would happen if I ate at maintenance?

**boxin23** · 09-30-2010, 10:41 PM

Originally Posted by Maxpower_sf1

My TDEE is 3000 and my BMR 1970.4

What would happen if I ate at maintenance?

Then you would maintain.....in theory.

Do you mean if you eat at maintenance and cycled? or just ate a clean diet at maintenance or ?? There are a lot of variables. You look pretty lean in your Avvy.....what are your stats again?

**boxin23** · 09-30-2010, 10:42 PM

If you want to gain naturally and get a lean bulk.....eat cleanly above your TDEE by roughly 500 cals and exercise. You WILL gain lean muscle mass and keep your body fat where it is at.

**Maxpower_sf1** · 09-30-2010, 10:53 PM

I ment eat maintenance on cycle.

I am 12% BF 195 pounds 5'10'' 23 years old

Ideally I would like to be 7% BF at 185-190 pounds

**boxin23** · 09-30-2010, 10:59 PM

You absolutely do not need gear to achieve that you are already there!!! All you have to do is eat at maint. or just above...NO CYCLE and work the cardio....you will shed fat and gain lean muscle working out and eating correctly. Dude if that is your goal....you are there....like a few months away naturally....

If you cycle and eat above your Maint. You will probably go from 195 to WAY over 200...you will be no where close to 185 when done...more like 210 if done correct.

So like i said NO CYCLE.....

Im sure someone else more experienced would love to chime in on this one......good stuff! You can do it Natty bro....
EASILY!!!

**Maxpower_sf1** · 09-30-2010, 11:06 PM

Here is the deal, I dont care about being natty or not, i been working hard 2 1/2 years, I can do it safely to get what i want with gear so I am. Getting to 200+ and cutting back down to single digit body fat with a one or two cycles will be perfect. See were I am coming from? I have the diet and routine and consistency so

**boxin23** · 09-30-2010, 11:26 PM

Originally Posted by Maxpower_sf1

Here is the deal, I dont care about being natty or not, i been working hard 2 1/2 years, I can do it safely to get what i want with gear so I am. Getting to 200+ and cutting back down to single digit body fat with a one or two cycles will be perfect. See were I am coming from? I have the diet and routine and consistency so

YES.....i see where you are coming from.....i am not telling you to cycle or not.....i am not the guy on this forum that is going to disagree with you about cycling. I see your stats look pretty good. I was just saying that based on your goal you told me that you are already there.

Dude this is your first cycle right? You could gain as much as 40+ and keep 20 or more easily. Meaning if you are at 195 now you will be at 215 easily after PCT if you dieted correctly. You stated you wanted to be at like 185......and i was just saying you dont need to cycle to be there....what is the point??? If you want to cycle then go ahead .....you are a grown man. If you do like I said you will be well over 200, which was not the goal you stated.....No biggy just giving you my .02........good luck man.

**Maxpower_sf1** · 10-01-2010, 01:18 AM

You think I will gain 40 pounds with a lean 3000-3500 cals? i did not realize i could possibly gain this much weight from one cycle. MY biggest goal is to be big with the low BF.

**boxin23** · 10-01-2010, 07:28 AM

no.....if you ate the planet you could see gains like that....retainig 10-20lbs. after pct. that puts you over your goal you stated weight wise.

everyone is different and you cant put numbers on it due to many factors. these are just guesses on the high side.

if you do the lean bulk you propose i see your body fat going down and you gaining 10lbs. lean muscle easily on one cycle......meaning you would end up around 205 and low body fat.

***D7M*** · 10-01-2010, 07:51 AM

Just because its your first cycle doesn't mean you'll gain 40lbs.

Guys who gain that much weight on a cycle are either ridiculously skinny before they start, or have crap diets and put on 25lbs of fat and water.

Honestly, no one here can predict your ending weight after a cycle, whether you keep your cals at maint or above. So I don't know where these numbers are coming from.

I do agree with Boxin' that you don't need to cycle to accomplish your goals.

That said, if I were you, I'd think about keeping cals above maintenance (if you do cycle), and keep your cardio up.

See how that works for you.

Alot of this is trial and error to see what works for you.

**boxin23** · 10-01-2010, 06:24 PM

Originally Posted by D7M

Just because its your first cycle doesn't mean you'll gain 40lbs.

Guys who gain that much weight on a cycle are either ridiculously skinny before they start, or have crap diets and put on 25lbs of fat and water.

Honestly, no one here can predict your ending weight after a cycle, whether you keep your cals at maint or above. So I don't know where these numbers are coming from.

I do agree with Boxin' that you don't need to cycle to accomplish your goals.

That said, if I were you, I'd think about keeping cals above maintenance (if you do cycle), and keep your cardio up.

See how that works for you.

Alot of this is trial and error to see what works for you.

Ha Ha.....that was me....mister skinny.....lol......diet was tight though. He stated his goals are to be 7% and 185. I don't understand why he is cycling at all. Unless he had goals of getting bigger. He is 195 now and in his avvy he looks closer to 10% now. Which to me says if his goal is 185 and 7% it is a no brainer......eat clean and up the cardio....he will drop that fat and be right where he needs to be.

So actually this whole thread is quite confusing. Goals must be......"i wanna try steroids " instead of what was stated. Just my .02 on it.

**ReX357** · 10-01-2010, 07:16 PM

Originally Posted by boxin23

Ha Ha.....that was me....mister skinny.....lol......diet was tight though. He stated his goals are to be 7% and 185. I don't understand why he is cycling at all. Unless he had goals of getting bigger. He is 195 now and in his avvy he looks closer to 10% now. Which to me says if his goal is 185 and 7% it is a no brainer......eat clean and up the cardio....he will drop that fat and be right where he needs to be.

So actually this whole thread is quite confusing. Goals must be......"i wanna try steroids" instead of what was stated. Just my .02 on it.

I mean this guy is right. I think he looks like he is 10% in his avy and to lose 3% of fat it would take around 5-6 lbs pure fat loss he would be at his goal weight. No need for steroids .

If OP wants to try steroid , sure go ahead. I can tell by his pic that he must be doing something right. I don't see any reasons (except the 23 year old thing but how often do we see a 23 year old that has his stuff in check like this guy?). However, the steroids are gonna bring him away from his goal. Unless OP was just being conservative with his goal.

**boxin23** · 10-01-2010, 07:51 PM

Originally Posted by ReX357

I mean this guy is right. I think he looks like he is 10% in his avy and to lose 3% of fat it would take around 5-6 lbs pure fat loss he would be at his goal weight. No need for steroids .

If OP wants to try steroid, sure go ahead. I can tell by his pic that he must be doing something right. I don't see any reasons (except the 23 year old thing but how often do we see a 23 year old that has his stuff in check like this guy?). However, the steroids are gonna bring him away from his goal. Unless OP was just being conservative with his goal.

x2....that's what i was saying exactly.....love your avy..