My first long ester cycle

[da11]

'Sup Everyone?

Need some feedback from all you knowledgeable athletes!

Been lingering around for the past couple of months getting some research in before my next cycle. I have a basic understanding of aas, ancillaries, and the different issues. But, I still have some unanswered questions.

I'm 36yrs, 195lb, 5'9", 13-14%bf. Been lifting off and on since 16yrs old. Hit it hard the past 2.5 years. I have a couple of short cycles under my belt.

4 weeks Tren A, 50mg eod
2 months off

then

4 weeks Tren A, 50mg eod
3 months off

I know everyone is thinking why no test……didn't have access to it at the time but I figured I would be fine with the short cycle, low dose.

Which worked out awesome. Put on 16lbs and gained some nice strength. Look and feel better than I have in 15yrs. Im a hard gainer and tend to lose muscle quite easily. Since my last cycle I have kept most of my size and strength gains. Lost a good amount of fat too.

Sides didn't bother me at all. I took some HC Generate during and after cycles. Had the night sweats, some insomnia, and week 3 had some sensitive nips. I guess im prone to prolactin gyno??? Stopped week 4 with no probs.

So heres the next cycle:

Its my first long ester and my first test cycle and it is 2 weeks longer than the my first 2 cycles.

100mg/ml Methenolone Enanthate
100mg/m Trenbolone Enanthate
200 mg/m Testosterone Enanthate

6 weeks
I plan on shooting 1cc every 4th day….Mon, Fri, Tues, Sat, Wed, Sun, etc unless otherwise advised

I want to do OCT and PCT as simple as possible.

I have Adex, Caber, HCG, and I have nolva for pct.

Here are my questions and concerns:

1. I know I could possible get some flare up from the prolactin caused by tren so I assume only the Caber will handle that right?

2. The other scenario would be that the aromatase is causing the gyno symptoms so in comes the adex……..Do I take both the caber and adex just to be safe? I don't want to take the adex unless I have to so at what point do I start? Or should I run it for 8 weeks until I start pct? I need some clarification on this as I haven't seen anything in any forum regarding both these together.

3. I have the HCG to reboot my boys but from what i understand I won't need it with a short cycle like this….any thoughts?


Lastly, from what I understand the estrogen isn't whats bad but the aromatase right? So control the aromatase production and your fine? No need to control the estrogen if that is in place……am I understanding this concept correctly?

I will start Nolva 2 weeks after my last inj and run it for 4 weeks.

Let me know what you think! and sorry for such a long post, I appreciate you reading and taking the time to reply as we are all busy.

[FuzzyPeaches o.O]

I'm not going to address all of your questions because your plan is.. Not so good! You are going to run a long ester cycle but only run it for 6 weeks?!? You do realize it will take the test 4 to 5 weeks to kick in right?

I think you need to start over cuz this is not a good plan.

[MBMETC]

I'm not going to address all of your questions because your plan is.. Not so good! You are going to run a long ester cycle but only run it for 6 weeks?!? You do realize it will take the test 4 to 5 weeks to kick in right?

I think you need to start over cuz this is not a good plan.

I was thinking the same thing in regards to the test e it didn't make sence to me either, but i'm still learning so i didn't cime in.
also isn't the primo dose a little low, and injections are to spread out wouldn't eod with prop be a better choice?

[nilrac]

I'm not going to address all of your questions because your plan is.. Not so good! You are going to run a long ester cycle but only run it for 6 weeks?!? You do realize it will take the test 4 to 5 weeks to kick in right?

I think you need to start over cuz this is not a good plan.

I felt effects from my cycle (test e @ 500mg per week) in the first week dude and noticable weight increase (water) by week two. Yes it takes around 5 weeks to peak blood levels out, but you are still affecting change from the first pin.

[FuzzyPeaches o.O]

I felt effects from my cycle (test e @ 500mg per week) in the first week dude and noticable weight increase (water) by week two. Yes it takes around 5 weeks to peak blood levels out, but you are still affecting change from the first pin.

I have a complete understanding of how the test and the different esters are metabolized and how long it takes the test to unbind with the different esters. Which supports my statement that 6 weeks with Enanthate esters is stupid.

[Sector]

I felt effects from my cycle (test e @ 500mg per week) in the first week dude and noticable weight increase (water) by week two. Yes it takes around 5 weeks to peak blood levels out, but you are still affecting change from the first pin.

Just like there is a difference in the kissing a girl and scoring with a girl... There is a difference in feeling the effects of test and actually having the full blown experience. Yea you might be getting that first kiss from test in weeks 1/2 but you aint gettin laid by test until weeks 5/6.

OP - If you want to run long esters run them for 10 weeks at the least. In addition to that, you think you have had good gains out of those two 4 week cycles? Try running a short ester 6-8 weeks and you will be shocked what the additional 2-4 weeks yield. You have kind of been robbing yourself of the best gains in those two cycles.

My personal opinion is give Test only a try, maybe kickstart with an oral. It doesnt seem like you fully comprehend tren. If your deadset on running tren just do a bit more research because it can quickly go from the best cycle of your life to the biggest mistake of your life if you arent fully prepared for the curveballs it might throw at you.

[nilrac]

I am not going to doubt anybody elses knowledge but there is alot of parroting on this forum in terms of "it takes this long for test e to kick in". It doesn't kick in, it steadily builds up. 500mg of pharma grade test is going to make you feel a whole lot different the first time you try it. My whole cycle felt great, right from the get go. Virgin receptors, whatever you want to put it down to...

That said I -personally- wouldn't recommend a cycle shorter than 8wks for test e. But I think 8 wks would be acceptable.

Atrophy kicked in around week 8 for me, so 10 weeks were more than enough for me and recovery has been easy, infact I haven't noticed anything. I personally didn't want to run the compound past 10 weeks. The gains were already what I wanted.

[FuzzyPeaches o.O]

If you achieved your goals with what you did, congrats. However, we want the OP to understand that an ester such as Enanthate will not yield good results in 6 weeks. At 8 weeks you will get results BUT they will be far short of what you could have achieved and if that is OK for you then great, but do not sell the OP short by giving him bad info. Telling someone that running a long ester for more than 8 weeks is not parroted info it is solid advice. If after the OP knows the truth he chooses to run it for 6 or 8 weeks then that is on him.

[nilrac]

If you achieved your goals with what you did, congrats. However, we want the OP to understand that an ester such as Enanthate will not yield good results in 6 weeks. At 8 weeks you will get results BUT they will be far short of what you could have achieved and if that is OK for you then great, but do not sell the OP short by giving him bad info. Telling someone that running a long ester for more than 8 weeks is not parroted info it is solid advice. If after the OP knows the truth he chooses to run it for 6 or 8 weeks then that is on him.

1. I am not giving out bad info. Just my own personal experience, as opposed to parroting what everybody else says.

2. That's not what I said, you have taken me completely out of context. I was simply referring to how quickly one feels the effects of a long ester.

In essence we agree. 6 weeks is too short, 8 weeks is minimum I think. 10 weeks would be better (or more).

[da11]

You guys are right…like I stated in my OP. I still don't comprehend a lot. I have been doing the research though..online and off.

First off, I have heard of a lot of guys doing a 6 week test e cycle. Second, it was my understanding that with a 14 day half life by week 8 I would still have plenty in me. I have my reasons for doing short low dose cycles….they work for me. I would love some actual advice rather than posts knocking my plan. That is why I posted that. Thanks to sector and nilrac for at least trying to point me in the right direction.

[nilrac]

Most of the advanced users I know (in person, not from this forum) will use test prop for short 6 weeks cycles, but they are bridging usually and never really coming off. Not for me! I don't really know anybody using test e for 6 week cycles!

@OP
I think 6 weeks for test e, while it may yield some good results, in my opinion, is too short. I would stretch that to atleast 8 weeks if not 10 weeks.

[da11]

My personal opinion is give Test only a try, maybe kickstart with an oral. It doesnt seem like you fully comprehend tren. If your deadset on running tren just do a bit more research because it can quickly go from the best cycle of your life to the biggest mistake of your life if you arent fully prepared for the curveballs it might throw at you.

Maybe I've subconsciously steered clear of some of the bad reports on Tren. I know what the sides are and experience most of them. After having 2 successful cycles I guess I have become more relaxed about it. Can you please expound on how my next Tren cycle could be a big mistake sector? Besides the obvious/common sides.

[FuzzyPeaches o.O]

Ok, there is no need to continue with this. Just understand that the effects you were feeling were completely unrelated to the ester it was the test.

All test kicks in immediately, but the noticable effect is signaled by the conversion of test either by way of the dht pathway or the estrogen pathway. Which is why some "kick in" faster than others, they are unbound from the ester and converted/metabolized faster (shorter esters). You "feel it" because the dht receptors are being activated due to test being metabolized BUT the masculizing effects begin when the ester binds w/the androgen receptor.

Just FYI..

[da11]

Most of the advanced users I know (in person, not from this forum) will use test prop for short 6 weeks cycles, but they are bridging usually and never really coming off. Not for me! I don't really know anybody using test e for 6 week cycles!

@OP
I think 6 weeks for test e, while it may yield some good results, in my opinion, is too short. I would stretch that to atleast 8 weeks if not 10 weeks.

Thanks nilrac! I guess my goals are short of what everyone else is looking for. I am looking for moderate gains with some fat loss without tipping everyone off that im using gear. I don't need to look like a muscle bound 21 year old. I will probably never even shave my arms or chest, and will probably have a farmers tan most of the year….lol.

What about my OCT and PCT plan?

[FuzzyPeaches o.O]

Maybe I've subconsciously steered clear of some of the bad reports on Tren. I know what the sides are and experience most of them. After having 2 successful cycles I guess I have become more relaxed about it. Can you please expound on how my next Tren cycle could be a big mistake sector? Besides the obvious/common sides.

Da - If you have to ask then you are clearly not ready for Tren. Not being a dick here just being honest with you. Besides, since you have relatively no experience with other compounds you could achieve the same goals that you would with tren with lesser compounds.

[FuzzyPeaches o.O]

Da11 you are only 21?!?

You need to slow down and re-consider what you are doing!

At your age you DO NOT need to be using AAS!

[nilrac]

Ok, there is no need to continue with this. Just understand that the effects you were feeling were completely unrelated to the ester it was the test.

All test kicks in immediately, but the noticable effect is signaled by the conversion of test either by way of the dht pathway or the estrogen pathway. Which is why some "kick in" faster than others, they are unbound from the ester and converted/metabolized faster (shorter esters). You "feel it" because the dht receptors are being activated due to test being metabolized BUT the masculizing effects begin when the ester binds w/the androgen receptor.

Just FYI..

Thanks for the info mate.

[da11]

Da11 you are only 21?!?

You need to slow down and re-consider what you are doing!

At your age you DO NOT need to be using AAS!

Not trying to be a dick but read my OP - I'm 36. You read my last post wrong.

Anyways, I had Tren available to me and with the help of an experienced gear user and after researching enough to know what I was getting into I gave it a shot with a low dose and short cycle because yes!!! I am aware of what tren can do from a common side effect and shutting you down point of view. I have had some success, I feel that I covered my ass and at the end of the day I am better than I was before my first cycle. I have had 3 months off and am fully recovered and kept a good amount of my gains. Im even still losing bf.

I now have this other blend available to me and I would like to give it a go. I have everything I need to make it a successful cycle I feel. I just need some small pieces of the puzzle put together

[FuzzyPeaches o.O]

I was very confused. I know your original post said you were 36 but then when you said "you do not need to be a muscle bound 21 yr old" I, admittedly, was confused.

All I am saying is this: If you want to cut why not use something like Mast? Shutting you down is just one of MANY sides of tren and until you have tried other avenues I just do not agree with using tren so early. To each their own.

[da11]

Fuzzy,

I appreciate you taking your time to post and help me understand. I am in total agreement with you. Here is the thing. I did tren A, twice, now I know wasn't the best choice, but it was available and it worked out and I now know how my body responds to it. The sides were even less on my second cycle. Didn't mess with libido or performance at all 2nd time around. Some night sweats, increased bp, and a little insomnia but not bad enough to not ever do it again….I feel that I recovered quite fast.

With that said, can I expect the same from a third cycle with 3 months off combined with test? I haven't come across any information that would keep me from doing Tren again, especially with 3 months off? Please let me know if im missing something here?

When offered the primo/test/tren for my next cycle I did my homework and felt like it was a decent choice seeing that I know what to expect with tren. Primo won't do much im guessing, And isn't tren way better when running test. I have never run test before and that is the unknown variable here for me. Not sure how I will react to the estrogen????

Where the confusion comes in for me though is if I get the sensitive nipples again how will I know if its prolactin or aromatase? Do I dose up with both caber and adex? Gyno is the only thing that worries me. I feel like I can deal with and recover from the other sides if they are anything like tren. Not prone to acne or hairloss….knock on wood.

I have made my decision to run this cycle. I need some support bros! I don't have anyone else to talk to about this. Tried some lame ass pay forum and it was a waste. How can I make this cycle work?

[da11]

Check this out, one of the many pieces I have read on short cycles....including long ester short cycles

By marcus300

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...ling-explained

[nilrac]

Excellent thread by Marcus. And gives another view on it from an experienced member...

TBH after my first cycle and the fact that I noticed results so quickly I was toying with the idea of running test e for 6 wks at a higher does of 750mg per week.
But I think atleast 8 - 10 again will be good for me at 500mg per week.

[HawaiianPride.]

I want to do OCT and PCT as simple as possible.

Uh no. Why the hell would you want to do an OTC PCT when you already have a SERM on hand? Order Torem or Nolva and stack 2 SERMS for your PCT. An OTC PCT won't do anything in conjunction with a proper PCT but put a hole in your wallet.

I have Adex, Caber, HCG, and I have nolva for pct.

Good except toss the Caber and I'll tell you why soon. Also, if you have extra money, replace Gaydex, with Exemestane. It's superior in many many ways.

Here are my questions and concerns:

1. I know I could possible get some flare up from the prolactin caused by tren so I assume only the Caber will handle that right?

Sure it would, but Caber won't be necessary. Again, I'll tell you why later on..

2. The other scenario would be that the aromatase is causing the gyno symptoms so in comes the adex……..Do I take both the caber and adex just to be safe? I don't want to take the adex unless I have to so at what point do I start? Or should I run it for 8 weeks until I start pct? I need some clarification on this as I haven't seen anything in any forum regarding both these together.

You can run both if you want, but you won't need too because, as stated earlier, you won't be needing the Caber.

3. I have the HCG to reboot my boys but from what i understand I won't need it with a short cycle like this….any thoughts?

Even with a short moderately supratheraputic dosage of Test only cycle, HCG would highly benefit the recovery process along with keeping the family jewels crunched up your ass hole.

Lastly, from what I understand the estrogen isn't whats bad but the aromatase right? So control the aromatase production and your fine? No need to control the estrogen if that is in place……am I understanding this concept correctly?

Just run a dose of Exe @ 10mg EOD 1 week prior to your cycle, and right up until PCT. If you don't want to use that AI, then follow the same procedure with Gaydex @ 0.5mg EOD.

I will start Nolva 2 weeks after my last inj and run it for 4 weeks.

Negative, your PCT will be utilizing 2 SERMS like Clomid 50/50/50/50 & Nolva 40/40/20/20, OR Nolva 20/20/20/20/20 & Tore 120/100/60/60/30

Let me know what you think! and sorry for such a long post, I appreciate you reading and taking the time to reply as we are all busy.

Ok, finally we can get to why I don't think you need Caber and Adex.

Fist being since your last two cycles (which I wouldn't even call cycles) were complete shit. I am going to consider yourself a novice in the world of AAS.

With ^^^ being said, your next cycle should consist of Test and a kicker. Why you ask? Because technically, this is your first REAL cycle. And you'll make amazing gains off Test and a nice oral to suit your goals because you've never even introduced these hormones into your body yet. So you will in fact grow like a fking weed guaranteed assuming your diet, training, and rest are up to par.

Next, is the Gaydex. I won't lie, I've used it and liked it. But after researching and experimenting with other AI's, I've realized and found out that Gaydex lowers your insulin-like growth factor and only rids up to 50% of your estrogen. Which leads me to Exemstane, or otherwise known as Aromasin. This AI not only raises your insulin-like growth factor, but improves your lipid profile, and takes care of roughtly 80-85% of Estrogen build up. Either way bro, both AI's can get the job done, one just holds more benefits than the other. But both do improve bone density and and cause no E.R.

With that being said, and short 6 week blast of T-Propionate or T-Acetate while running Var throughout the entire cycle up until PCT with the PCT protocol layed out above would do wonders. You should also include Lipid Stabil/Fish oil to assist in cholesterol levels, hawthorn berry extract for BP, monitor your water and sodium to ensure bloat is to a very minimum, and don't forget pre BW and post - PCT BW to compare results and see how everything pans out.

Good luck.

[da11]

Hey Hawaiian, Great answer. Thanks for the post! Helps me out a ton.

[lovbyts]

Nice to see you are on top of things HawwainPride. VERY nice write up and I will be looking into the Aromasin Liquid Stane instead of the adex next time. Sounds promising.