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I've been saying on here for quite awhile now that guys don't need to be donating blood while on cycle and that donating can have negative impact. UNLESS your blood platelet count is elevated. having elevated RBC , hematocrit/hemoglobin is not only normal on cycle, its beneficial
Dave Palumbo just posted a vid stating the same thing . just thought I'd share
Castle Power
Elevated ok, but over 54?
But interesting. Besides BP, hct is the only thing that worries me. At my doses. Gotta look into Dave.
Thanks for the tip.
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Staff ~ HRT Optimization Specialist
I have never donated blood.
If blood is leaving my body it's because I forgot to switch pins and injected using an 18G
I no longer check my inbox. If you PM me I will not reply.
Castle Power
What is he saying. Forget about hct and rbc, but look for high "platels"??
Whats that... What BW marker?
And What causes high "platels". He didnt tell.
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Changed Man
I have never had high hematocrit until my eq run.
Even on enormous doses of nors and test.
I was always mid range.
I can tell when I need to donate because I cant get through an exercise without nearly fainting. I never had a CBC so I dont know what else goes on.
As of today the mechnisms by which AAS elevates hematocrit are not known, only speculated.
When my hematocrit got my power red rejected last time I was waliking around near 180/110 bp with a resting heart rate of 111.
It got to where I could barely work.
I wouldn't go so far as to say its normal and it is not healthy in my case.
You realize why they reject high hematocrit for power red?
Its because it will literally plug the centrifuge seperator on modern machines.
If you are over the range and sweating profusely just walking, unable to breathe, spiking bp, and aboit to collapse when in an 85° enviornment....
You should donate.
Once I got rid of a unit of regular blood last time it was like I was a new person as it always is.
Pehaps it was other issue causing it but donating fixes it.
Changed Man
This article from 2018 is a comparative asessment of past studies.
Its a long winded way of doctors saying, "we dont know shit."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5690890/
This is also why I dont do the science stuff.
So many conflicting studies and all they conclude is that they are unclear and need to study more.
I do what works for me.
I dont get alarmed at numbers.
I just fix myself when I can no longer function in my duties.
Possibly my issue is not increased red cell numbers but increased cell size...
I don't know.
I do know that donating is something I have had to do a few time to be able to continue on.
Last edited by Obs; 12-01-2019 at 11:57 PM.
Changed Man
Last time took two rejections.
First time I was rejected because of bp.
Next time I ate a bunch of atenolol and just sqeaked by.
Then power red was rejected.
So I had a full unit drew.
Felt a little shitty for a couple of days and was back to killing snakes at work.
Junior Member
Is there any relationship between AAS and Platelets, meaning can AAS elevate or affect Platelets? I just checked my bloodwork and pre-cycle my Platelets were 201 (150-379) with a HCT of 40.9 & bloodwork at mid cycle showed 237 (150-450) with a HCT of 40.9, so according to my bloodwork the answer to my question would be no, not really.
Also, sorta random, but I read someone say the other day on another forum that the cause of high BP is from high HCT. I tend to have higher than "normal" BP yet my HCT is pretty low. I couldn't believe what I read, lotta garbage out there. Thanks for all the info GH.
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couple of notes here --
I've been in Obs situation in the past and felt like total dog shit and could barely breath or walk up a flight of stairs.. donating blood made me feel better. mainly after being on a pretty long run of Deca at very high dosages.
but my Hemoglobin and hematocrit were where they always are .. like 51 and 17.8.. I did not need to do the blood donation because my RBC factors were elevated.
at other times my Hemo levels have been even more elevated then this yet I felt great.
the blood donation made me feel better simply because I lost some 'blood volume' , and NOT cause my Hemo levels dropped. there wasn't a correlation between my hemo levels and feeling like crap and lethargic. I felt like crap because I was holding a super compensation amount of water, nutrients, minerals, etc. in the blood as well as in the cells. I had too much 'retention' and my blood (which is the carrier of all nutrients) was working over time having to push all that shit around.
a clear reason we know that high hematocrit does not directly cause this crappy feeling and lethargy is because endurance athletes will take drugs, blood dope, and sleep in barometric chambers to get their Hematocrit levels up to near 60 (much higher then can be achieved with AAS alone) .
they do this to increase their cardio capacity, energy, and performance levels . they are at peak performance when their levels are that high.
if their was a direct correlation between the shitty feeling us bodybuilders often get to when on a cycle and we think its cause hemo levels are high, then the same thing would happen to these endurance athletes when their hemo is off the charts.
so as I mentioned above , bodybuilders have other issues that are going on that are causing the problems and not high hemo itself.
yes it is a good idea to donate blood on occasion when you get 'over volumized' and your holding too much water and nutrients in your blood. but again this is irrelevant in regards to RBC/hemo
BUT this is totally separate from guys that are donating blood every 2 months cause they are on TRT or they run gear and they think that slightly elevated hemo is a problem and they have to donate blood all the time . they are doing themselves a dis service and will run into further problems down the road from donation so often.
especially if these guys aren't like Obs and Me, and run mega doses of highly volumizing drugs and get that crippling lethargy problem from having too much blood volume and nutrients floating around at all times (heck we needed to lose the blood just to lose some fluid weight from our body , not because we needed to drop RBCs)
so just to clarify
- Donating blood because you've been running volumizing drugs for a very long time and your have to much fluid and nutrients in your blood is a good idea .. but note, this does not happen with most guys that run lower doses.
- Donating blood just because you find that your Hematocrit levels are high (because you run AAS) is completely unnecessary.. Unless it accompany with the above situation or its accompanied with elevated blood platelet counts (which is not common in AAS users)
- having high RBC/Hemo (as long as your not 'volumized' with water retention) is going to increase your gym performance, your cardio capacity, etc..
- having high hemo does not cause high blood pressure or high resting heart rate directly.. again its from running volumizing AAS at high dosages and having all that fluid in your blood thats causing high blood pressure.
high levels cyclist that take EPO and have off the charts hemo levels will often times have a resting heart rate in the 40s and BP of 110/60.. but they are taking EPO to increase RBC , so there blood never gets 'volumized' and they don't hold a ton of extra fluid.
drugs that 'volumize' your body (ie, blood, muscle cells) and cause you to retain a lot more intercellular fluid, retain a ton more nutrients and minerals ,, are often times the same drugs that people say cause high Hemo levels (but truth is all AAS can elevate RBC)..
but its these volumizing drugs that can cause the 'fluid retention' in the blood and eventually lead to that lethargic, can't breath feeling and high BP . again its not the hematocrit relationship..
these drugs are for example--
Anadrol, Dbol, Eq, Deca, Tren, and high dosage test.
these are great to 'volumize' you and make you big, full, strong, vascular, etc.. and ultimately build more muscle. but if ran at high enough dosages for long enough periods of time , you will gain weight and you will eventually crash and feel like shit. when really if it was just high RBC/hemo related you would actually feel and perform better in your cardio capacity , not worse.
so what I've done for guys that I help out, is that I restrict volumizing phases to only about 6 weeks or so. then we switch from there and run mainly just anabolics and loose some of that extra retention we are holding onto.
will VAR increase your RBC . yeah sure.. but guess what you'll probably likely never get that lethargic crappy feeling from high RBC from running Var . because Var is not a great 'volumizer' , its just an anabolic mainly that only up regulates protein synthesis and CP.
thats why Var is popular among athletes (you get elevated Hemo to help with endurance, but you don't get that extra 'volumiztion' of blood and cells)
Last edited by GearHeaded; 12-02-2019 at 09:16 AM.
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high Hematocrit (way above normal) in a person who does NOT take steroids is a marker for underlying health conditions and possible kidney problems.Originally Posted by AR's King Silabolin
this is why docs can be concerned over high hemo (its the underlying condition , not the high hemo itself).
BUT in guys that run AAS, the high hemo is directly caused from the AAS itself , and not from some underlying condition. we don't have anything to worry about.
heres a crappy analogy .
lets say you wake up every morning with really sore muscles and sore joints. your achy all day and sore.. but you don't even workout. well then thats a sign of an underlying problem like systemic inflammation or arthritis.
lets say your wake up sore every morning, but you pound the weights hard every single day with max intensity.. umm yeah well no wonder your sore. you know the direct cause . you don't have to worry about an underlying condition causing the soreness.
as for blood platelets . yes it would be a concern if that was high along with your high RBCs. but this is rarely ever the case with AAS users ,, unless they have an underlying health condition. because AAS , as far as I'm aware don't effect blood platelet count.
health issues like iron deficiency, anemia, even a bad infection can cause elevated blood platelet..
you know what else can lead to it though possibly . umm donating blood too often lol . the very thing that guys do to supposedly 'thin' their blood if done too often may eventually lead to elevated blood platelet count . and now you have a concern..
heck the very thing your doing to possibly prevent a problem, if done too much can cause the problem.
thats why I advise one donation per year is all.
as for blood platelet count . thats standard on an CBC bloodwork . it will be right their listed with your Hemo, RBC, White blood cell, etc.
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the only steroids that I'm aware of that can directly effect/elevate blood platelet count is anti inflammatory steroids used in medicine , like prednisone. this happens via immune system suppression.
as for hematocrit directly causing high blood pressure.. no. the reason why some bro science out there thinks this is simply because guys are running a cycle of deca and anadrol, or something like that, and they have high blood pressure (from the added fluid retention in the blood) and they get blood work done and they find that their Hematocrit is high , then they put two and two together and say high hematocrit correlates with or causes high blood pressure.
but it doesn't .. you can take EPO, which will dramatically raise Hemo levels (but not add fluid retention) and have zero blood pressure issues .
the BP issues come from the AAS and mainly their volumizing effect and fluid/nutreint retention effects in the body . not from Hemo
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the only steroids that I'm aware of that can directly effect/elevate blood platelet count is anti inflammatory steroids used in medicine , like prednisone. this happens via immune system suppression.
as for hematocrit directly causing high blood pressure.. no. the reason why some bro science out there thinks this is simply because guys are running a cycle of deca and anadrol, or something like that, and they have high blood pressure (from the added fluid retention in the blood) and they get blood work done and they find that their Hematocrit is high , then they put two and two together and say high hematocrit correlates with or causes high blood pressure.
but it doesn't .. you can take EPO, which will dramatically raise Hemo levels (but not add fluid retention) and have zero blood pressure issues .
the BP issues come from the AAS and mainly their volumizing effect and fluid/nutreint retention effects in the body . not from Hemo
Banned
What is the purpose of donating blood in the cycle, sorry for my ignorance for not knowing it.
Banned
I think it must have to do with the thickening of the blood during the cycle?
Could this blood donated by steroid users be used on patients in medical use?
Or would the traces of steroids in the blood be detected after donation , or discarded for use in medical use for those who need blood??
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the reason some guys have 'thought' they need to or supposed to donate blood all the time when on cycle is because they think that having high RBC. Hemoglobin, and hematocrit, on blood work is a bad thing. but its not. a huge purpose of AAS, and a reason a lot of them are used in medicine is for the whole purpose or raising these blood factors. the raising of these things is also part of how AAS increase athletic performance and used in sport.
so taking steroids that are designed to raise RBC , then going to donate to purposely lower RBC is defeating the purpose to a certain degree.
^ this is separate then donating blood because your blood volume and fluid and nutrient retention are too high. but this does not happen very often to most guys (unless your pushing things pretty hard for long durations). again here your not donating because your RBC/Hemo levels are high , your dropping some blood because you simply have too much volume and fluid in your blood and in your cells
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no its not going to effect the person receiving the blood. Steroids don't work that way. they are not just floating around randomly in the blood stream to where they can be transferred from one person to another. after injection steroids stay bound to esters at the injection depot (and are not just instantly in the blood stream), then after that they are slowly cleaved by enzymes and then bound to cell receptor sites.
again they are not just free floating at high levels in your blood stream at any given time even if your were injecting 10 grams per day.
Changed Man
Will just add...
If you need to donate blood, you will know.
It will zap you to the point you cannot go on at a third of the normal output.
I dont mean lethargic and tired. I mean bodering fainting during exercise of any kind.
VET
I usually HAVE to donate twice a year, the every 8 week thing they tell you is horseshit. I think that’s basically what this thread is about, the “overkill” blood donating
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yes . when guys that have been on TRT for 10 years and occasionally blasting and then donating blood every 8 weeks for years on end , when they one day go to donate blood and they find they cannot because they are anemic and iron deficient (which they check before they allow you to donate) , then they are going to wonder what the hell went wrong..
theres a member here, and a former client of mine, that is older and been on TRT for quite sometime and did donate quite often. ended up in the hospital sick and needed an iron infusion .
another guy I know did donate all the time until one day he got denied for being Anemic (think his hemoglobin dropped to like 12) ..
he never got blood work to check regularly , he just donated all the damn time cause he thought he was supposed to be doing that.
1-2x per year. thats about it guys, imo
Banned- for my own actions
It’s my blood, I’ll just keep it.
Changed Man
Prude
Banned- for my own actions
I might just lose enough of it accidentally that I’ve inadvertently been keeping myself alive for years
Member
1.5 years of donating every 8 weeks sometimes 6 and I was turned down for my iron being too low it started out high and got lower and lower every donation.
Staff ~ HRT Optimization Specialist
I'm on the same page.
I wonder how many blood donor clinics even tell patients to take an iron supplement ? Feels a bit archaic of a system to help one person through someone else without proper post-donation advice.
I thought about donating a few times, coming up on a decade of HRT soon. In Canada it's +12 or +14 weeks after tattooing before being eligible. I've never been eligible in 10 years.
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Knowledgeable Member
If you are able to donate I think you should as it really helps the blood banks.
New Member
Are you kidding me?Men also have menstrual cycles?Why don't I know this fact
Castle Power
Ok dude. I trust ya. Fuck hct. If i die, send mama a flower, will ya
Not Monica, i dont want u to mess with her when im not around [emoji48]
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AR-Platinum Elite- Hall of Famer
Yes, you will. Off cycle for years and prior to TRT my Hct was 52.8% and my platelet count was in the low 400s. It doesn't take much for me to be short on air.
Last edited by almostgone; 12-03-2019 at 04:36 AM.
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HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~ No Source Checks
Which is exactly how they make a living.
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Knowledgeable Member
Ojectively:
Deca and eq especially but just taking HRT testosterone can increase erythrogenesis, the creation of red blood cells. The creation of red blood cells results in greater carrying capacity of O2, good for sports and anything benefiting from greater oxygenation. Increased RBCs mean more blood volume (think about the use of diuretics which are used simply to decrease blood volume) which equates to higher blood pressure. Higher blood pressure compromises cardio function through damaging blood vessels and result and organ failure through things like kidney failure.
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These are things we avoid through careful planning unless we decide that the greater O2 delivery of higher RBC counts is worth the increased risk.
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That is all we are talking about, being aware of and managing risks in order to accomplish our own ends.
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Subjectively:
I feel so much better after I donate that I regularly dump blood.
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There are benefits to more RBCs but for me it isn't worth the risk and I just feel crappier when mine is too high.
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Someone asked what are platelets:
Platelets are the clotting factors, they associate with DVT and emoblism.
Knowledgeable Member
"Publish or perish", it's the academic way of life.
Thinkin' Bold
Which makes their writing an obligation, and they do research to be just "done with it". I got really close to this.
“The thing women have yet to learn is nobody gives you power. You just take it. ” - Roseanne Barr
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this is generally true for most guys. probably why they end up dumping blood too often , thinking every time they do it they are going to get that 'I feel better' feeling .
question: do you think you feel better because your actual RBCs have been lowered a little bit from donating , or do you feel better simply because you lost some actual blood volume and 'water retention' (theres a whole lot more in a pint of blood then RBCs) ??
anyone that uses AAS, even just TRT, has a much greater propensity to retain more water and blood volume as well as nutrient and mineral retention. which does put an extra stress on the body , and dumping some blood can relieve that to a certain degree.
however, endurance athletes that do NOT use AAS and instead use other methods and drugs like EPO to significantly raise RBC .. they do not get this lethargic feeling like we do. instead they actually feel better and perform better.
but then again they are not carrying around 10 pounds of extra water and mineral retention like we do when our RBC elevates
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just an FYI -- I've had several different clients that were in a bulking and volumization phase and ended up getting that lethargic out of breath feeling and they figured they had high hemo and needed to go donate blood.. one guy did and they tested his Hemo before donating and he was only at 14. another guy had already donated pre cycle and I told him not to bother donating again.. what I did instead is have them take a diuretic for a couple days, drop their salt, and do a diet break for about 5 days restricting calories and go very little carbs . afterwards they felt good again. they lost probably 5-7 pounds of 'volume' of stuff they were retaining.
so keep that in mind next time any of you guys get that "high hematocrit" feeling (which as I've explained previously is not directly caused by high hematocrit itself anyhow) ,, try some other methods instead of just going and donating especially if you've already donated a bunch of times this year.
New Member
Elsewhere the guys were telling me that the blood donated by a steroid user could harm other people who need blood in medical use
AR-Platinum Elite- Hall of Famer
My response would be to direct them to the link below:
https://www.redcrossblood.org/donate...rral-list.html
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Changed Man
Not saying a diuretic wont work but epedrine is a diuretic of sorts that I am on most of the time. It may have helped some but the issue continued to build until I had to donate last time.
In the summer I am constantly dehydrated to the point of cramping. Yet thats when it sat me down.
AR-Platinum Elite- Hall of Famer
How do your potassium values look, Obs?
I sweat like a madman, especially during the hot part of the year and end up taking Klor-Con 20meq bid. I have tried a potassium rich diet, but I still end up potassium depleted, cramping, and occasionally the AFib gets a little worse.
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Changed Man
They bounce.
I dont know but I drink a lot of pedialyte in the summer just to get by. The way I sweat is ridiculous.
It soaks my bluejeans and drips off.
Cant hardly do what I do in the heat the past couple years.
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yeah in your situation just donating blood was the most efficient thing to do
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