2nd cycle - Test Prop and NPP - Dosages and duration?

[Choppers]

Well I am set and ready to go but have a few questions about my proposed cycle, dosages and duration.

Lets firstly get the vitals out of the way.....

Age: 32
Height 5' 7"
Weight 83kg / 182.5 lbs
BF: Around 15% (not tested) but instinct tells me its dropping due to new cardio regime.
Training: 4 years
Cardio: 5x 45 min a week (recently increased from 3 per week)
Weights: 5 x 45 mins a week. (2 on 1 off but occasionally 5 straight)

Diet: Approx 4 x 5oz piece of chicken breast/steak per day. Nil shakes, 5 small meals a day, 2 complex carbs in meals either side of training, green veggies. Note: I don't count my calories.

Previous cycle: One. 1-12 500mg Test E (2 x 250mg E3D)
Comment: Good gains in weight and moderate strength gains. Initially 18 lbs but held onto 12 pounds post-cycle.

Sides: Did get some mild acne on back, shoulders and chest and noticeable water retention hence decision to try a short ester this time for a comparison (hindered by the proposed NPP use perhaps). Did not use an AI last cycle. With hindsight, admittedly PCT was poor and Diet was perhaps not as tight as it should have been.

Moving on.....


2nd Cycle objective: To get to 90 kilos (if possible!). non-watery LBM gains, maintain cardio, drop some BF and generally get bigger. Planning to begin an aggressive cut for Aussie summertime.
Longer term objective: Down to 10% BF

Proposed cycle:

1-10 125mg Test Prop EOD
1-8 125mg NPP EOD

PCT: Nolva: 40 40 20 20
Clomid: 100 100 50 50
Prami/caber ???

Anyone got an general comments on this cycle? Any improvements

Questions:

Do I need to be counting my calories on my cycle/training generally?

Has anyone run a similar cycle and what kind of gains did you get and dosages did you use?

Is the dosage of the Prop and NPP too similar? Does one need to be higher than another? (I was thinking of considering the Prop dosage at 600mg a week?)

Is the cycle too short? I thought short ester cycles tend to be shorter anyway?

Is Prami/caber absolutely necessary? What will happen if not used?

If I needed an AI would it matter which product it was?

As you can see I've got a few loose ends to finalise before I start and any feedback would be greatly valued.

thanks guys,

[crazy_rocks]

Is the dosage of the Prop and NPP too similar? Does one need to be higher than another? (I was thinking of considering the Prop dosage at 600mg a week?)

theres nothing really wrong with the doses being the same as far as i know but people have reasons for their preference. you do not need to have the test higher than the nandrolone although people on this forum will tell you that it does in order to fight erectile dysfunction. they are wrong. some people choose higher nandrolone because it has less rate of sides than test and they let the nandrolone do most of the work. the nandrolone only suppresses your bodies natural test production, not the test you are injecting.

Is Prami/caber absolutely necessary? What will happen if not used?

not a bad idea to have caber because erectile dysfunction can happen even though your backing up you nandrolone with test. the nandrolone can rise prolactine which can lead to ED. the caber started working for me after taking for over a week. some people maybe sooner. until then i was playing with a soft penis to my internet porn. ejaculating was tricky. just get the caber to be safe. ive heard 0.25 mg every 2.5 days as well as half a mg every fourth day. i tried both and it felt the same.

[Choppers]

bump

[scotimus]

excellent choice for a second cycle. was my choice as well. im doing 140mg prop and 105mg npp EOD. halfway through my 4th week and im up approx 18 lbs. strength up,bloat is not so all is good. your timeline looks good although if you wanted you could run your npp a week or two longer than you have planned as it will exit your system at the same time approx as the prop.

you dont HAVE to count calories. i mean if you are serious about it and want 100% out of it then ya count them but all i did was count them for a day or two and get an idea of what you bring in and then eat the same shit every day lol

just have prami/bromo and liquidex/stane on hand, they may not be necessary but it wont hurt to have them just in case

[t-gunz]

^^ what are your goals mate whilst doing this cycle?

have you notice a bf% drop at all whilst on this cycle?

[Choppers]

T-gunz - If you're asking me, I start tomorrow.

Crazy rocks - I didn't think of having the NPP higher and letting it do the work. As it aromatizes less it should mean less sides as you point out and to be honest a high sex drive is not something I'm familiar with since school days.

[sfour_tay]

I've ran two cycles of npp before.
Prop 600mg a wk
Npp400 mg a wk
No adex and no prami
Terrible sides
Pinned eod

Second one I switched it up
Prop 350mg a wk
Npp 700mg a wk
Adex at .5 eod
.25 prami Ed
Pinned Ed


I realized I get bad sides from test but not npp so I just let the npp do the work.

I get bad estro sides so I loaded up on the adex 2 weeks before and did the same with the prami and ran it through out the whole cycle n

I figured with a dose of npp like that. I was
Going to have prolactin sides.

I love npp and will use it for my next blast winter bulk. I'm goin to use 1grAm for 4-6 weeks with prami at .5 Ed

I'm also going to use it with some winni and var next summer

Gl

[Choppers]

thanks Sfour. Out of interest what was your BF% when you did the cycle with the bad sides? Also what kind of results did you see off the 2 times you ran NPP?

Just ordered some Prami and Adex earlier so lets hope it gets here quickly.

I did a search for NPP threads on here and there were a few people who loved it and swore by it hence my my choice for 2nd cycle. I'm a bit worried about the Prop pain that you hear about but until I inject I won't know.

[sfour_tay]

both cycles were lean bulks so the first one i would say around 11-13%
second one was prob the same maybe a little higher

the first cycle i ran the test higher so i think the gains were about half from test and half from npp.

the second cycle i ran the npp for 6 weeks at 700mg and got awesome results. like i was a monster and wasnt really bloated.

i also like pinning ed, i feel it keeps sides down. but thats just me and you could deff do eod. it all depends on how your body reacts to the drug.

as far as prop pain, what is your stuff dosed at ??? i ran a sust cycle my first cycle and it crippled me.

my next stint with prop was a home brew and i made it at 100mg/ml and it was painless and i didnt even use eo.

thats also why i like ed pins less, short ester in a shot to me means less pip.

gl

[Choppers]

Interesting. I had a couple of tough injections off Enanthate last time in the quad so moved to glute only and had zero pain and corking. damn quad pain hurt like a mofo.

Prop is a reputable Aussie UGL dosed at 100mg/ml and EO based. NPP is 100mg/ml also.

So far I'm preferring EOD for both but either way its going to end up being about a 3ml injection.

Out of interest how does it work with the combining lower dosage anabolics and injections.\? Do you just inject 150mg of each in 2 separate injections or can you mix it into one injection of 3ml? IS there likely to be more pain with the 3ml injection?

My Enanthate last time was 250mg/ml so very different affair and obviously my cycle was single compound only


I think I'm going to stick with the 500mg per week of the Prop and NPP for this cycle so I have a fair basis of comparison. If I can make lean gains I'll be very happy indeed after last times bloat.

I'm just hoping my AI's and Prami get here before any sides do.

cheers.

[sfour_tay]

O YOU WILL MAKE GAINS NO DOUBT.

i mix all my oil based gear in one shot. no problems

my first run with prop npp and mast i shot eod and had crazy post injection pain. second cycle i pinned ed and had no pain not even once.

the first cycle i shot like 3.25 ml and the second cycle i shot about 2.75 so idk is that .5 made the difference.

my first run with sust i pinned quads and i have never done it since. id rather pin bi's or chest any day.

gl and keep us posted. i think you will be able to tell the npp apart from the test. it always just makes me look so full. i love the shit.

[Choppers]

Did my first injections last night into each quad. 2 x 125mg of each compound. and will stick with that EOD. Been hobbling around a bit today and both quads are a bit tender. I used a 23g needle (like last cycle) but accidentally bought some 25g also so they look good for other body parts which I'll rotate as I need my legs for my cardio sessions.

How long did it take for your cycle to kick in? I did a search and some people said 1 week others 2-3 weeks? What about the sides when did they kick in?

I actually went to a supplements shop the other day and he talked me into buying some mass gainer as I said I want to gain 12 lbs. Got home and read the label and noticed it was 45% sugars. Do you think this will cause any fat gain when it kicks in? I eat clean normally and do cardio regularly (when quads allow it!)?

[sfour_tay]

For me half way through the second week is when instant to feel the gains.

I don't get any sides other than crazy sex drive and a little aggression. Other than that I'm fine.

As far as the shakes I would try and take one in the morning and one post workout.

[Choppers]

typical. here I was stressing about the pain from the Prop and in the end it was actually the NPP that crippled me! haha. I now remember why I aborted quad injections.

thanks for all the help.

[t-gunz]

good luck with the cycle mate. and keep us posted

[Choppers]

thanks T-Gunz. Not sure I'm brave enough to post before/after photos but there'll be a description for sure.

What has just saved my life was a packet of 200mg ketoprofen in my medical box....... Its nailed the swelling on the NPP quad (for now anyway). Bloody great stuff.

[baseline_9]

My opinion would be to run it shorter

6-8 weeks total

Test at 75mg ED
NPP at 50mg ED

HCG throughout

Remember that after weeks6-8 ur progress is drastically going to slow

Keep it short, recover well, rest and repeat

[sfour_tay]

I agree. I love 6 week cycles. I don't Think I'll ever go over 8 weeks again and sure as he'll won't use a long ester again.

As for the pain, on my first npp cycle I was pinning Eod and it was crippling. My second npp cycle with all the same compounds just more npp and less prop I pinned Ed and had no pain. Try out some Ed I jections and see where that gets you. I do delts, glutes and pecs and I'm fine.

Gl bro. You've given me the npp itch.

[baseline_9]

typical. here I was stressing about the pain from the Prop and in the end it was actually the NPP that crippled me! haha. I now remember why I aborted quad injections.

thanks for all the help.

Try chest shots, they are easy and u dont notice any pain because u dont use ur chest much in everyday life, unless you walk on ur hands

[Choppers]

I got the missus to do last nights in glutes and despite a bit of sting there was no discomfort. Will try chest next. Thanks for the advice.

I could always drop back to 8 weeks and up the dosage slightly. Currently on 125mg of each EOD.

I can seriously recommend Ketoprofen. Despite walking around like a 1 legged cripple yesterday I am running around today like Usain Bolt. Its like a different leg than yesterday.

[stevey_6t9]

I got the missus to do last nights in glutes and despite a bit of sting there was no discomfort. Will try chest next. Thanks for the advice.

I could always drop back to 8 weeks and up the dosage slightly. Currently on 125mg of each EOD.

I can seriously recommend Ketoprofen. Despite walking around like a 1 legged cripple yesterday I am running around today like Usain Bolt. Its like a different leg than yesterday.

you shud make a log bro, im interested in your results.

[sfour_tay]

i think npp works better at high dosages for short period of time vs long period of time at a lower dose.

[Choppers]

Good idea Stevey. I'm hoping with intense cardio and clean eating I should do well on this cycle. I'm naturally quite short and of a solid build so I'm really keen to see the effects of both a short ester Test and stacking it with another compound. Ideally I should have just done the Prop on its own but I saw the NPP and thought that the 2 seemd a perfect fit for each other.

But I'm really annoyed I got that mass gainer. All its done this week is add fat round my midriff and I'm fuming. Had to sell it to a mate actually to get rid of the bloody stuff. I'v learnt a very valuable lesson. Stick with what you know and avoid sugar at all costs....

First day back doing cardio today. Did an intense 40 mins cross trainer and 10 mins running. total calories burnt 497. As I missed my cardio sessions earlier in the week I've got four more to squeeze in before Sun to keep on track which I think is achievable.

I also think I really need to sit down and work out a proper calorie counted diet for this cycle as I'd hate to not maximize my gains. Gives me something to do over the weekend. Do you think 500 cals per day above maintenance is sufficient on this cycle?

I know what you mean about the last few weeks of a longer cycle. After about 8-9 weeks my weight levelled off last time so any more gear after that seems to be wasted.

Taking into account the points and suggestions people have made earlier in the thread how does this look?:

1-8 Prop 125mg EOD
1-7 NPP 150mg EOD
PCT as before

I like the idea of a higher NPP dose to reduce the sides off the Test. I did get minor acne last time but with no AI on hand. My Prami and Liquidex have yet to arrive but expect in the next week or so.

Whilst I am open to ED injections and reducing the dose accordingly, I think I would find it bothersome and although the glute pain was minimal, I prefer EOD. If the sides kick in bad then I may revert to ED but we'll see how I go. Its still early days and I'll need a very strict week next week calorie and cardio wise to lose as much fat as I can for the week after when I expect it to kick in properly.

Training wise I am thinking of running a HIT type routine. 10 reps x 3 sets x 3 exercises per body part and seeing how hard I can push myself. I read a great log a couple of days back that got me thinking. The problem is I've been training of my own for a while now so now I've finally got a training partner so we can track the gains and hopefully he can push me out of my comfort zone that I've been in.

Normally I find it very hard to increase my lifts with the exception of my legs and as my weight has remained static I recognise I need to eat more calories and to up the complex carbs to provide energy in the gym. I think I also need to be more vigilant with my protein uptake and probably aim for 2g per LBM per day.

Anyway interesting times lay ahead for sure...... and thanks for the suggestions and comments. Its really got me chomping at the bit now.

I'll post a link to a log in due course probably within the next 2 weeks.

[sfour_tay]

As I said before I'm a big fan of letting the npp do the work sinuous revised cycle looks good. Also like
Seeing the test run a week after the npp. Really helps in recovery.


Is this the first short cycle you have ran? My last one was 6 weeks and I'll never
run any thing longer than 8 weeks

[sfour_tay]

As I said before I'm a big fan of letting the npp do the work sinuous revised cycle looks good. Also like
Seeing the test run a week after the npp. Really helps in recovery.


Is this the first short cycle you have ran? My last one was 6 weeks and I'll never
run any thing longer than 8 weeks

[Choppers]

Yep first short cycle and short ester. The Prop is actually ok. Its the NPP that hurts a bit. Did my delt last night and pecs before that. I am avoiding the quads after last time. Had a undisciplined weekend eating wise and a few drinks as had some visitors but will be dry now until the end of the Cycle and eating very clean.

is it kicking on yet? I'm starting to feel the pumps in the gym on Mon (day 7) and the very early signs of frustration at work so my aggression is increasing slightly. Haven't had the hunger increase yet but legs are very sore today after leg press and a run.

Interestingly I am trying out a HIT training plan this time as my weights have stagnated. So this time 2 warm up sets 8-10 reps and then 1 Super heavy set till failure then next exercise. I managed to get a new PB on incline leg press of 240kg. Puny I know but it was only 200 kg previously so its starting to work. Don't quite have the Super god feeling yet and boundless energy but the reports I read said 2 + weeks to really kick in so that should be next Mon onwards.

I'm really wanting to lose some BF and gain muscle on this so I'm a bit concerned diet wise how much I need to be eating to grow but not put down any fat at the same time. At the moment I'm aiming to eat 2g per pound of LBM and moderate carbs and low fat.

My cardio is back on track for 5 x 30-45 min sessions per week. low carbs on rest day.

I'm now at the stage where I ENJOY injecting as I know whats coming..........

[stevey_6t9]

Yep first short cycle and short ester. The Prop is actually ok. Its the NPP that hurts a bit. Did my delt last night and pecs before that. I am avoiding the quads after last time. Had a undisciplined weekend eating wise and a few drinks as had some visitors but will be dry now until the end of the Cycle and eating very clean.

is it kicking on yet? I'm starting to feel the pumps in the gym on Mon (day 7) and the very early signs of frustration at work so my aggression is increasing slightly. Haven't had the hunger increase yet but legs are very sore today after leg press and a run.

Interestingly I am trying out a HIT training plan this time as my weights have stagnated. So this time 2 warm up sets 8-10 reps and then 1 Super heavy set till failure then next exercise. I managed to get a new PB on incline leg press of 240kg. Puny I know but it was only 200 kg previously so its starting to work. Don't quite have the Super god feeling yet and boundless energy but the reports I read said 2 + weeks to really kick in so that should be next Mon onwards.

I'm really wanting to lose some BF and gain muscle on this so I'm a bit concerned diet wise how much I need to be eating to grow but not put down any fat at the same time. At the moment I'm aiming to eat 2g per pound of LBM and moderate carbs and low fat.

My cardio is back on track for 5 x 30-45 min sessions per week. low carbs on rest day.

I'm now at the stage where I ENJOY injecting as I know whats coming..........

bro can you make a log in the members cycle results. there has been zero logs on here using npp!

[Choppers]

Will do tonight after I get home from work. I'm hoping in 8 weeks time I'll be in good enough condition to post a post cycle photo.........

[Choppers]

Ok guys I've got a log going in the members cycle section.

SFour - At what day/week in your cycle did you notice the weight gains? So far I've been eating like a trooper and prob only put on maybe 3 pounds so far. I know my gear is ok as got ball shrinkage but was expecting something quite dramatic by now as using 2 short esters.