I need some intelligent advice from experience user. Please help me.

[testinthecity]

Hello everyone,

I am very new to this forum, so take it easy on me!

I have been training intensely for the past 2 year, and I have always been very active prior to that. I train in between 4 to 5 days a week, every week, no exceptions. My diet is in check, very lean modest carbs, low sugar, low sodium etc.. Lots of chicken, fish, red meat, vegetables and proteins. Now, I am 26 years old and I weigh 165 with around 13% body fat and i am 5"11.

I have been doing a lot of research and I have decided to try a cycle and i would love your input on my choices. Which I think are some of the safest compounds for a beginner cycle. My goal is to lean out a bit while gaining muscle definition and a bit of mass.

Week 1-2 Sustanon 250 @ 750mg (3 injections of 250 m/w/s)
Week 3-12 Sustanon 250 @ 500mg (2 injections M/T)
Week 1-4 Anavar 50mg ed
Week 8-12 Anavar 60mg ed
Amiradex when needed

Need help with pct (I have the following items at my disposal: Chlomid, 1000 iu of hcg and amiridex)

PCT
week 13 HCG @ 100iu ed
week 15-16 Chlomid @ 100mg ed
week 17 chlomid @ 50mg ed

?????????

Where would I include Amiridex and for how long and what dose?


So, overall, does this seem like a decent first cycle? The reason I am taking 3 shots of Sust for the first 2 weeks is to take advantage of the prop ester which is only at 30 mg (and with 2 shots of 250 a week that would only give me 60 mg of prop witch I think is a bit weak) Or should i simply stick to 2 250mg shots a week to start off? Keep in mind that I want to do this in a safe and thought out way.

YOU INPUT PLEASE!!!! And thank you very much in advance.

Read more from the MESO-Rx Steroid Forum at: http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/stero...#ixzz151wbhZ00

[vettewreck]

You wanna run 750mg/wk THEN 500mg/wk THEN add a second compound on your very first cycle?? Are you kidding me?? You say your diet is in check but youre 26y/o and only weigh 165lbs. Dude you have alot of research to do.

[vettewreck]

Bro, you need to gain some size before you start AAS. Youre not even a lean 165lbs. The only thing I would even say to do would be do .75ml on monday and thursday weeks 1-10. Thats it. That puts you at 375mg/wk and thats plenty for a first cycle. But you really need to do more research man.

[testinthecity]

You wanna run 750mg/wk THEN 500mg/wk THEN add a second compound on your very first cycle?? Are you kidding me?? You say your diet is in check but youre 26y/o and only weigh 165lbs. Dude you have alot of research to do.

Actually, I am a lean 165 pounds. I never wanted to have a bulky look, and I still don't. And the second compound I am adding is a very mild steroid at a relatively low dose. A good beginner cycle is something along the lines of Test 10 or 12 weeks with d-bol for 4 weeks. Actually if you look at the "beginner cycle" on this forum you will see that recommendation. I am only switching d-bal for Anavar (which is a lot less toxic to the liver and less side effects) Remember, i don't want to bulk, but get cut.

I have done research and no I don't know everything about roids but I am trying to do this in a safe and responsible way. This post is also part of my research, I am open to suggestions and constructive feedback.

If you think 750 mg is too much for the 2 weeks I will take that into consideration and would consider changing it to 500 mg for 12 weeks.

Thanks

[testinthecity]

I would never want to go over 205 lbs. I don't liked the bodybuilder/bulky cut look, I simply want a modest muscle/cut look. From what I have looked at anavar is a great cutter and sust would help me put on a bit of size.

[vettewreck]

165lbs at 13% is not lean.

A beginner cycle and a FIRST cycle are two different things. Hence do more research.

You need to stop thinking you know more than you do. You asked for exerienced user advice, I am. I told you 375mg for 10 weeks and you said you would "consider 500mg for 12 weeks"... bro gtf out of here.

[testinthecity]

Everywhere I look I read that 250mg per week is the lowest dose recommended for sus. The ideal dose is 500 mg per week. But you are the first to suggest anything lower to be honest. And I don't think I know more than I do or you do. I beleive I actually wrote that in my post. Hence, I am on a msg board asking for advice. I really do appreciate your advice but I would like you to explain to me why sust at 500 per week with anavar is a bad first cycle? And relax with the "gtf out of here" if this is to much for you simply don't reply. I am doing everything i can to learn and I am treating this very seriously so I don't make a terrible mistake

[GetEmRock]

I personally think that cycle is ok except for a few things. Forget about the running the frontloading shit. just going to give you unstable blood levels. I like the var and it was exactly what I did for my first cycle and it was the best one I'v ran.
I did this and it worked great.

1-12 Sust 500mg ( M,Thurs)
1-5 Var 50mg/D

wait 18 days after last shot of Sust and run
clomid 50/50/50/50
nolva 20/20/20/20

I didn't use HCG and recovered very fine and fast on that cycle and have bloods to prove it.

[testinthecity]

Wow,

I really appreciate the reply. I think I will use that exact cycle, sounds simple and affective. What were your results? Any suggestions?

Also, do you think it could be beneficial to run the var again near the end of the cycle to lean out some more?

[sixoner]

dude you say youre looking for intelligent advice ...then some guy with 2 posts comes out of nowhere and just throws a cycle on your lap and you say wow wee!! man thats great i'm doing that exact cycle. did you ever stop and think that results may not and probably will not be the same. there are a lot of other variables to consider

are you serious???

[testinthecity]

I am serious. I was already thinking of taking anavar and sust... the cycle described is simple. I am aware that result will obviously vary, but I was curious to hear what his results were. Also, a persons number of post do not reflect his experience with cycles. And i did say "I THINK I will do that exact cycle" it's pretty much the cycle I originally thought of doing if you look at the first post, with a few tweaks...

[vettewreck]

some guy with 2 posts comes out of nowhere and just throws a cycle on your lap and you say wow wee!! man thats great i'm doing that exact cycle. are you serious???

LOL thats exactly what I was thinking lol

[vettewreck]

. Also, a persons number of post do not reflect his experience with cycles. ..

True, but a join date is a good rule of thumb to determine how long someones been in the game for.

[Skyler]

I think you need to listen to the experienced advice, and not just whoever tells you the closest to what you want to hear. As the last guy pointed out, someone comes out of nowhere, and tells you that you can basically do exactly what you want to do, with just a slight tweak, and you are all smiles, no complaints etc. The guy who knows what he is talking about tells you what you actually NEED to hear, but its not what you WANT to hear, and you make it clear that his replies just aren't good enough for you.

You are very similar to thousands of other newbs. You say "I want experienced advice" when in reality you are really just looking for the experienced guys to tell you what you want to hear.

Do what you want. You seem to know everything you need to know, and will not be swayed.

[testinthecity]

Look, you can be helpful or you can simply add nothing to my first cycle. If you feel like I am missing something, don't be an ass, simply point me in the right direction. Very simple.

[sixoner]

right on, handle your business then...I was just pointing out how ignorant that sounds to ask for intelligent advice then it seems to all go out the window as soon as you hear what you want to hear...whatever maybe its just me

my apologies if I offended

[testinthecity]

right on, handle your business then...I was just pointing out how ignorant that sounds to ask for intelligent advice then it seems to all go out the window as soon as you hear what you want to hear...whatever maybe its just me

my apologies if I offended

The last message was not directed at you. I am definitely not offended i appreciate you input, I really do. I simply haven't heard any suggestions, just criticism without suggestions. Actually someone did suggest to lower the sust dose... other than that nothing.

[vettewreck]

Actually someone did suggest to lower the sust dose... other than that nothing.

Thats bc thats all you need for a FIRST cycle. What do you not understand about that? Thats why youve gotten "nothing". You dont need anything else.

[sixoner]

lean out a bit, definition and a bit of mass..why do you need gear again??

reason I ask is I got you by 11years, I'm 5in shorter and weigh the same and can pull that shit off with no gear... if you're scared.. say you're scared

[testinthecity]

So a cycle of sust only would be preferable? My only question to that is why is Anavar a bad idea with that cycle? My goal is to lean out while gaining some mass... Sust would help with muscle mass only, wouldn't it?

I am not trying to disagree with you, I simply would like to understand.

[GetEmRock]

may have just registered on this forum, but that doesn't give anyone a good grasp on how long I'v been in the game for. But regardless I haven't been in the game very long. Only a couple of years of using gear now, so I'm no expert by any means, but I mean is the cycle I listed really that tabboo for a first cycle?? In my opinion 500mg is a very good base to judge how your body will respond, and var is a very mild oral that will help with collagen systhesis, and isn't a bad oral for the look this guys going for.
As for vette's recommendation of 375mg per week, how come you recommend that dose? I see you;ve been around a while and if that's you in your avi, looks like you've been doing the right thing, but don't you think he might be a little better off with 500mg. check this article. I was very happy with the dose I ran.
http://www.************.com/forum/an...tosterone.html

[testinthecity]

lean out a bit, definition and a bit of mass..why do you need gear again??

reason I ask is I got you by 11years, I'm 5in shorter and weigh the same and can pull that shit off with no gear... if you're scared.. say you're scared

I have tried to gain muscle mass in the past year with little result. I have a hard time gaining muscle, and yes I do eat enough to do that. For some reason, my body is quick to increase body fat even when eating lean. I have had enough of working out so hard and seeing little results regarding muscle gains. I have tried many different diets to support muscle gains with little results.

[bdzemske]

have you tried just eating food? 5'11 165 is not enough of a base to start AAS no matter if your 1 percent.

just eat...at your weight you shouldnt even worrying about dieting, just eat a lot of lean meats and good sources of carbs

[sixoner]

so post up your typical daily diet and your training routine then..let these guys have a look there's some very knowledgeable guys on here that may be able to help you out. everyone always turns to gear as the be all that ends all and that is just not the case if everything else isn't in check

[bdzemske]

amen brotha.

if i were you, OP, i would save my money and get some Xplode or somethin

[testinthecity]

Breakfast
Regular oatmeal with Peanut butter toast on 12 grain bread
1 spoonful of omega 3 fatty acid
1 glass of vegegreens (6 portions of vegetables)

10:00
Proteine shake (60 g) fruits

Lunch
Chicken/tuna/egg whites omelette/ chicken caesar salad (depending on the day)

Snack
Trail Mix with Protein shake (60 mg) &

Diner
Steak/Pasta/chicken /salmon Always with vegetables

Snack
Protein shake (60 g)

[MACHINE5150]

i read the first 5-6 posts and just started getting too pissed off.. first off.. do not take the advixe of someone that has 4-5 posts.. that guy has no idea what he is talking about..

Second off.. taking Anavar for five weeks is pointless.. if you are going to do a cycle, do ten weeks at 500mg.. that's it.. but i read nothing about your proposed PCT or anything.. also.. 5'11" and 165lbs?? you are a toothpick. i am not trying to talk shit, but why are you going to do steroids?? even if you are an ectomorph you can naturally get up to 205lbs.. which i see you do not want to ever get that big??

my brother is 6'0" and 165lbs and he is a cocaine addict... i am 5'10" 250lbs.. the difference (it's not genetics) is my diet..

To sum it up man, you will gain 30lbs on 500mg a week, but you will lose it all in 10 weeks after your cycle because your diet is obviously not up to PAR.. You can get to 185lbs naturally in about a year with no need of touching AAS if you just got your diet in check.. post your diet in the Diet section, and we will show you how to obtain your goals and keep them with no need of doing any steroids.

[sixoner]

so 6 meals and 3 of them are shakes....ziiiiiiiiiiinggggg!!!!

[testinthecity]

as for training

Monday
Legs & Shoulders

Tuesday
Arms (bi & tri) & Abs

Wednesday
Off

Thursday
Chest & back

Friday
Forearms/Abs/neck

Saturday
Arms & Legs & Chest

[testinthecity]

Thank you, I appreciate that. I am willing to hold off on the gear and give a different diet a try.

[MACHINE5150]

your diet is garbage

[testinthecity]

If I eat more than that or less lean I gain fat.

[testinthecity]

your diet is garbage

What kind of diet would you suggest?

[Skyler]

You weigh 165? Consume 300+ grams protein a day, 600+ grams carbs a day, take amino acids in the morning and post workout, take a good multi vitamin, make sure as much of your nutrient intake is from real food, not shakes. Add some almond butter or peanut butter to at least three meals a day for good fats. Sleep 8 hours a night. You also need to aim for over 3000 calories a day.

I am 5'10", 202 currently, and have 6.7% bodyfat. Guess what? I am not trying to lean out. I actually start my contest prep diet monday. Until now, I have been doing a clean bulk, but my bodyfat stays low because I bust my f*cking ass nearly to death in the gym, and do 30 minutes cardio at 4:30am 3x a week, so my body uses everything I put in it. I take in 5000calories a day, 400 grams protein, 800 grams carbs, 10,000mg Amino Acids, Animal Pak Multivitamins 2x a day, etc etc etc

Train correctly and according to what YOUR body needs, eat a lot, sleep a lot, rest as aften as possible, etc.
If you are doing all these things correctly, your body has no choice but to grow.

[GetEmRock]

OP you need to spend some time researching your diet and get that in check before you start your cycle. Worst thing you could do is start a cycle with a crap diet becuase you won't be happy with the results..remember steroids aren't magic, they do help, but the other aspects need to be 100%, and no less..your rest, diet, and training. spend some more time researching on here and some other forums also. there's lots of good advice on the net, and I can't speak for this forum yet, but I know their are plenty of good guys willing to help you.

i read the first 5-6 posts and just started getting too pissed off.. first off.. do not take the advixe of someone that has 4-5 posts.. that guy has no idea what he is talking about..

To sum it up man, you will gain 30lbs on 500mg a week, but you will lose it all in 10 weeks after your cycle

First off, it's a pretty ignorant statement to say I don't know what I'm talking about from the one recommendation I made. Second, he will gain 30 pounds with the diet he posted? Looks like your the one that doesn't know what he's talking about bud..

[testinthecity]

You weigh 165? Consume 300+ grams protein a day, 600+ grams carbs a day, take amino acids in the morning and post workout, take a good multi vitamin, make sure as much of your nutrient intake is from real food, not shakes. Add some almond butter or peanut butter to at least three meals a day for good fats. Sleep 8 hours a night. You also need to aim for over 3000 calories a day.

I am 5'10", 202 currently, and have 6.7% bodyfat. Guess what? I am not trying to lean out. I actually start my contest prep diet monday. Until now, I have been doing a clean bulk, but my bodyfat stays low because I bust my f*cking ass nearly to death in the gym, and do 30 minutes cardio at 4:30am 3x a week, so my body uses everything I put in it. I take in 5000calories a day, 400 grams protein, 800 grams carbs, 10,000mg Amino Acids, Animal Pak Multivitamins 2x a day, etc etc etc

Train correctly and according to what YOUR body needs, eat a lot, sleep a lot, rest as aften as possible, etc.
If you are doing all these things correctly, your body has no choice but to grow.

I am willing to try what you are suggesting. My only concern is I will get fat... As I said before, my body is quick to increase body fat %. So you don't think thta would happen?

[BIG_GUNS_21]

Its most likely cause your metabolism is craped out cause of your much less than perfect diet. Use suppliments as such, a suppliment to an already good diet. Increase the amount of real food you eat and if you start to notice fat gain that you do not want then hit the cardio a bit. With the goals you have though I know you would be able to get that without aas use at all. Post your diet in the diet section and ask for help there cause that is going to make all the difference in your case.

[testinthecity]

Thank you. I appreciate everyones advice.

[Hazard]

Definately get your diet in check before you start any cycle. The guys in the diet section are always more than willing to help guys out.

As for a first cycle..... a simple test only will do. How much test is really up to you..... 350mg's a week will probably yield the same results as 500mg's a week for a first cycle. regarding the var..... I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing to have it in there but it sounds like you are counting on it to cut fat. Diet and cardio are the main factors in fatloss..... steroids are only aides.

Lastly..... you have 2 main goals for this cycle. #1 Put on some size and #2 Lean out..... I personally would try and stick to one and put 100% into it. If you want to add some size..... do a lean bulker with some test and your good to go. If you want to cut up..... fix your diet and up the cardio. Try to drop down to 10% and then start your 1st cycle and lean bulk. A lot of guys try to add mass and cut fat at the same time but more often then not..... they aren't happy with their end result. IMO - you just can't put 100% dedication into both.... however..... thats not to say it can't be done.

~Haz~

[testinthecity]

Definately get your diet in check before you start any cycle. The guys in the diet section are always more than willing to help guys out.

As for a first cycle..... a simple test only will do. How much test is really up to you..... 350mg's a week will probably yield the same results as 500mg's a week for a first cycle. regarding the var..... I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing to have it in there but it sounds like you are counting on it to cut fat. Diet and cardio are the main factors in fatloss..... steroids are only aides.

Lastly..... you have 2 main goals for this cycle. #1 Put on some size and #2 Lean out..... I personally would try and stick to one and put 100% into it. If you want to add some size..... do a lean bulker with some test and your good to go. If you want to cut up..... fix your diet and up the cardio. Try to drop down to 10% and then start your 1st cycle and lean bulk. A lot of guys try to add mass and cut fat at the same time but more often then not..... they aren't happy with their end result. IMO - you just can't put 100% dedication into both.... however..... thats not to say it can't be done.

~Haz~

I appreciate the reply. I definitely do alot of cardio. I do a minimum of 20 minutes every workout (most of the time its 25 to 35 minutes) And as for diet, I am going with this

7:45 250 ml of egg whites
2 small tortillas, mushrooms, fat free cheese & salsa
1 English muffin with no sugar added jam & peanut butter
15 gm of whey protein
25 gm of oatmeal

10:15 1 1/2 can of tuna
15 ml of flax seed oil

12:45 8 eggs & green onion & light mayo (makes an egg salad)
3 pieces of whole-wheat bread w/ ham
1 banana
15 gm of whey protein
1 yogurt

3:15 1 1/2 can of tuna
15 ml of flax seed oil

5:15 120 gm of steak
20 gm of whey protein
Mustard
50 gm of carrots
5 ml of flax seed oil

1 HOUR TRAINING START 6:00PM to 7:00PM

7:15 60 gm of whey
5 rice cakes (caramel flavored)
1 apple
2.5 ml of flaxseed oil

9:30 125 gm of cottage cheese
15 gm of whey protein
1 no sugar added fat free yogurt

TOTAL CARBS: 300 GM – 1200 calories
TOTAL PROTEIN 320 GM – 1280 calories
APPROX TOTAL FAT: 63 GM – 567 calories
TOTAL CALORIES: 3047 calories per day


After considering all my options, I decided to buy 3 vials of Sust & 250 (20mg) tabs of Anavar. My goal is simple, as i said earlier, I weigh 165/170 (depending on time of day) after a 12 week cycle, if I can maintain 180/185 I would be more than happy, hopefully I will have a dry/cut physique to go with it. I will keep posting to update my results.

So far, my glutes are killing me & i'm constantly tired. A friend said it might be sust flu... I did manage to go to the gym in the last 2 days. Today is break day.