Cycle Questions - please help

**10InchMember** · 02-26-2003, 12:46 AM

Hey guys,
Fairly new member here, starting first cycle ever. I have posted this message on a couple other boards also to get the most feedback possible. Please bear with me

I have done a lot of research, but still have a few questions. All the info here is current, and I will not be starting my cycle for at least 3 weeks (thats what I have questions with - see below)

First lets start with my cycle:

Testoviron Depot - 400mgs per week for 10 weeks
D-bol - 35mg per day for 4 weeks then off
Clomid - Going to begin therapy 3 weeks after last injection, 300mg day 1, 100mg next 7 days, 50mg last 7 days

My lifting schedule is like this: (3 day split) My usuall workout time is around 7pm (mentioning this to help with my questions below)

Monday: Back and Chest
Tuesday: off
Wednesday: Legs
Thursday: off
Friday: shoulders, bis, and tris
Saturday: 0ff
Sunday: 0ff

My cardio schedule right now:
HIIT training on treadmill, usually 15 mins a day. Every day.

My Diet
I am taking in around 2000 calories a day right now, and close to 200 grams of protein.

Some of my stats:
Age: 22
Weight: 190
Height: 5'10"
Bodyfat: around 18% (going by look, and a 1 point caliper test)
Cycle History: None, this is my first

My Goals:
To put on at least 20 lbs of muscle, and shed as much fat as possible.

My Questions:

1) I am looking to add mass, and lose bodyfat with this cycle. Can I achieve both?

2) How should I modify my cardio to get the most out of this cycle?

3) How should I modify my lifting routine to get the most out of this cycle? Should I be lifting daily, or stick with a 3 day split?

4) What time of say should I take the d-bol? Should I split it up or take all 35mg at one time?

5) How should I administer the test? How much, what times, what days, etc?

6) Injection sites.. I plan to use mainly my quads... will this be ok or do I need to pick a few different injection sites and rotate? I wasn't sure if scar tissue would be a problem, because I am unsure on how often to inject.

7) Diet: Right now I am taking in 2000 or so calories, and 200 grams of protein. How should I modify this during my cycle to get the results I want? I planned to up the calories quite a bit, but how much is too much if I still want to lose body fat?

Thats it for now.... I am constantly thinking up new things, so if anything comes to mind I will ask.

Thanks in advance for any help you can offer.

**10InchMember** · 02-26-2003, 12:58 AM

Also here is my picture to give everyone a better idea.

**RON** · 02-26-2003, 01:11 AM

Wow all that info and still I have a question for you. What is your lifting history? IE How long? Consistently?

**10InchMember** · 02-26-2003, 01:14 AM

Off and on for 6 or so years. Just started getting real serious about it this last year.

Please no lectures

**monstercojones** · 02-26-2003, 01:22 AM

personally, i cant possibly work until full failure on two large muscles in one day. chest/back on the same day will not put you in a sufficiently catabolic state for substantial growth to occur.

i would suggest....

day 1- chest
day 2- bis, calves, abs
day 3- legs, shoulders
day 4- tris, abs
day 5- back
day 6- off
day 7- back to day 1

that works well for me. it allows me to get a good workout for each muscle and work it hard enough to shock it into growth about every 6 days. i think your schedule doesnt allow you to really punish your muscles, you wont get the most out of your gear with your schedule IMO.

**RON** · 02-26-2003, 02:19 AM

Originally posted by 10InchMember
Off and on for 6 or so years. Just started getting real serious about it this last year.

Please no lectures

OK since you know its coming I guess you must already have heard what I was about to say. So I would bring up that you have more to gain naturally still.

If you are gonna go on a cycle (even though i think you should wait) Don't short change your gains by trying to cut and bulk at the same time. Bulk now cut up later

Some people split up the dbol but I have found by trial and error that it works best (for me) if I take it all 30 min before my work out.

split the test into 2 shot of 200mg twice a week evenly spaced.

For this cycle I see nothing wrong with quad only for the injections.

As for the rest of your questions. They depend on if your cutting or bulking.

**KunipshunFit** · 02-26-2003, 06:25 AM

My Questions:

1) I am looking to add mass, and lose bodyfat with this cycle. Can I achieve both?

2) How should I modify my cardio to get the most out of this cycle?

3) How should I modify my lifting routine to get the most out of this cycle? Should I be lifting daily, or stick with a 3 day split?

4) What time of say should I take the d-bol? Should I split it up or take all 35mg at one time?

5) How should I administer the test? How much, what times, what days, etc?

6) Injection sites.. I plan to use mainly my quads... will this be ok or do I need to pick a few different injection sites and rotate? I wasn't sure if scar tissue would be a problem, because I am unsure on how often to inject.

7) Diet: Right now I am taking in 2000 or so calories, and 200 grams of protein. How should I modify this during my cycle to get the results I want? I planned to up the calories quite a bit, but how much is too much if I still want to lose body fat?

um i'll try to keep this in order

1. With that cycle, it will be hard. Dbol will make you hold water, and you will have to up the cardio to shed that. but the point of dbol is to make you hold water, so you can increase the strength...I'd add EQ into the mix @ 400mg Wk 1-12

2. No flame, but you have not reached your genetic limit...I'd up the cardio to 30X5 per week, and keep increasing with proper diet until you stopped losing weight and then hit 45X5

3. I like Rons advice on the training split...personally i do.
Cardio 6am empty stomach
M- Shoulders
T- Bi's and Tri's
W- Chest
Th- Back
F-Hams or Quads "alternating with saturday"

4. I took 35mg Split through the day... Worked better for me... I'd take 1 in the am, 1 2 hours later, 1 2 hours after that 1 2 hours later 1 again 2 hours later, 2 before training...

5. Typically if it's enanthate , it has a halflife of 5-7 days.. I'd hit Monaday @ 250mg/ml and Thursday @ 250mg/ml

6. Scar tissue will be aproblem...i've got some in my shoulders now from this Fina...Rotate...shoulders are easy, triceps well only 1cc at most in them...and it will sting a bit. Bi's are great, ass is the old standby...

7. typically when on a cycle, injest around 1.5g to 2g of protien per pould of body weight...but you have to becareful and you need your carbs

You look like you need to get your diet in order..trust me, my diet was shit my frist cycle...I puton 40 pounds, however 20 of that was water...and it SUCKED...

Get your diet in order... I'd cycle the carbs, and keep them around or above 200 per day (bulking) Protien on your high carb days should be lower than on your low carb days...

Honestly, you do not look like you've been lifting for 6 years...no flame bro none at all...

Diet is the key! I didnt realize it until i did my first cycle... I'll always keep my diet in check now..and always do cardio... I can put on the size easily.. but dropping the fat kills me... UP your cardio..and I'd personally give you another 12-16 weeks to lose some of the fat/build some more muscle then re-evaluate. You wanna be as lean as possible to bulk...that way it's all lean muscle. Afterall unless your a power lifter, you most likely want that MIKE XXL look.. (shameless plug for the pimp that he is) And honestly, cardio and diet are the keys...Steroids arent the end all cure all...

I hope this helps and I hope you take these words into consideration.. I mean no flame bro...I just dont want you to waste 400 dollars on a cycle, see some results, but then spend the next 4 months trying to do cardio and loose the water and gains...

K'Fit

**redrumkev** · 02-26-2003, 06:47 AM

I would throw some deca or eq in with the test and dbols.

**DADDYDBOL** · 02-26-2003, 07:27 AM

diet needs work. 500 carbs a day and double your body weight in protein. if your wanting to add mass id leave the cardio alone but i have an extremely high metabolism. eat clean. just because you need 6000 calories a day dosent mean you get them from hamburgers and ice cream. thats my hardest hill to climb - eating all day. the lifting is easy its just a bitch to eat when you are so full you have to gag each bite down. thats the key - food. oh yeh, workout another year to get better muscle development. just my .02.

**10InchMember** · 02-28-2003, 01:19 AM

Thanks for all the feedback brothers.

It is all appreciated. And I take critisism well, so no worries there.

As for adding EQ... I considered it, but that would add another couple hundred to an already expensive cycle. I was told that I would still see huge gains with what I have.

RON:

I have decided to just go ahead and bulk. If you want to add anything based off of that, feel free.

Thanks again

**RON** · 02-28-2003, 01:34 AM

If your gonna bulk then cut the cardio to 2 or 3 times a week at most. Up the calories and carbs.

Heres a sample of a Good work our split IMO:

day1 back
day2 chest/calves and abs
day3 bi and tri
day4 shoulders/calves and abs
day5 legs
day6 rest
day7calves and abs

I like to work calves and abs ed but alot of poeple think its too much. So 3x a week will do.

**10InchMember** · 02-28-2003, 01:46 AM

OK thanks again.

To everyone who replied,
My gear is already on the way so I can't stop it. But I do plan to hit the cardio and diet hard for another few weeks before beginning my cycle. I should probably wait longer, but I really want to give myself a jump start in my lifting career. This is a life long commitment I have made and I want to make the best of it.

Sure I could train for another few years before I use gear, but does it make a difference? My plan was to cycle and then go natural for a year or so and then do another cycle. I just want whats best for me because I get discouraged very fast. I figured if I could see some decent gains early, I would have the drive I need to keep at it.

Fucked up philosophy? Sure it is.

I am open to all feedback. Please don't tell me to go read though. I have been doing that for 6 months. If you have specific advice, I would love to hear it.

**KunipshunFit** · 02-28-2003, 08:16 AM

You said that you wanna jump start your lifting...well if you cycle now...your going to jumpstart it alright. but you will be limiting how far you can truely go

Think about it like this...

Take a few years...reach your genetic limit...Lets say that's 200lbs for an even number...

Ok, then at 200lbs you bulk up on your first cycle...and do it clean. We will say a good 20lbs, off of a 12 week'er..

Proper time off, then another cycle..this time you start at say 218 (2pound loss, due to diet) This time you gain another solid 20lbs...

2 cycles in, your 238..

now if you do it the way you wanna do it...

We will say your 180...because honestly in 2 years, you can put on 20lbs of muscle, espeacially if your just starting..

so you'll go from 180 your first cycle..and we will make it an even better cycle than if you reach your limit..and you gain an amazing 30lbs... Well your diet was not spot on, and you gain a lot of water...so post cycle you'll lose half of it.. so you gained 15... After 1 cycle, your at 195...

Proper time off, andyou jump right back on...again a great cycle..this time you gain 40lbs...but again, it's a lot of water..so half is lost post cycle, having to cut up to lose the water/fat gained... so from 195, plus 20lbs...and your sitting at 215...

How's that for a difference....

2 years, and 18lbs of muscle difference...and honestly these numbers are a lot lower than they CAN be...

My first cycle I gained 40lbs...but i lost 15lbs due to water gain and some fat gain...so my first cycle ever i walked away with 25lbs of kept gains...

well i started cutting from 216lbs...and currently i'm down to 196....at the same time last year, i was at 176 with the same body fat...

1 year = 20lbs of muscle *however i'm on a fina/winny cycle now*

My point - You want your best possible base to build upon... Think of it like a sky scraper... It can only go as high, as the foundation will support! Sure it takes longer to build a solid foundation, but in the end, you will be stronger, bigger, and better for it!

Just my .02

K'Fit

**DADDYDBOL** · 02-28-2003, 09:05 AM

if you get discourged easily this probaly isnt the thing for you. you never see yourself grow so you learn to live for those few comments of "wow youve been eating huh?" or "how did you get those veins?" its a slow, hard, long road. i was blessed with pretty good genetics and i played every sport i could growing up which kept me in the gym at least 4 days a week. im not saying dont but you really have to love this to trully benefit from it. as are hell on the body and if you think you might quit in a year dont start. well anyways i wish you the best.

**10InchMember** · 02-28-2003, 09:56 AM

So assuming I start my cycle right away, what stops me from going natural AFTER the cycle, and having similar results?

Why does it matter what order I do it in. Natural this year, cycle next year, or cycle this year, natural next year. What's the difference?

Also, from what I can see, the only long time side affect would be possible hairloss which I don't really care about. So what do I have to lose?

I guess what I am looking for is people to say its ok to go ahead with my cycle as long as I keep my diet in check. I have already bought the stuff, and why keep it around the house for another year when I can make some gains with it now?

**KunipshunFit** · 02-28-2003, 10:12 AM

Trust me, i understand that your looking for some conformation that it's ok to start...and that's up to you honsetly...

but to answer your question...

Your body will continue to grow until it reaches it's natural limit...once there, it will continue to grow...but not at a substantial rate where you could say add 50more pounds to your body.

What I mean is...if you lift for 2 more years, and get closer or even reach your natural limit...then the steroids will be that much more maximized.

If you start now..and honestly your not near your limit...then the steroids will SIMPLY and ONLY help you reach that limit faster than naturally... what you have to worry about is reaching your limit off of the first cycle, then you'll pretty much be fucked, naturally and have to stick with the roids.

So you'd have to run 2 cycles, to see what you could see by reaching your limit first, then running 1 cycle...

i'm not sure if that made sense..i hope it did..

**10InchMember** · 02-28-2003, 10:23 AM

It made perfect sense bro, and I appreciate it.

But basically the only difference is the money spent on the gear. Whether I reach this limit with or without sterioids, the period after that (limit) is going to take longer.

Sure the ideal situation would be to train naturally to see how far I can go. But there is no *real* benefit to doing it this way.

Don't get me wrong, im just trying to understand.

**KunipshunFit** · 02-28-2003, 10:43 AM

the real benefit

- You will save the 300 dollars on the cycle...now granted time is key with weight training..

EVERYONE and I do mean everyone, espeacially during this time of year gets impatient and wants "the beach body" for spring break, and the summer time. However, muscle looks better with maturity. Think about arnold.. it took YEARS to build that...YEARS

if you blow up 50lbs in 18 months, your body will not look near as good as if you put it on slower...HOWEVER, I can not say..dont juice... I just think you would be better suited to hold off with the roids..

your juice prolly will have a long exp. date...so just hold on to it for a bit...it wont go bad...and all you have is time.....

**Colt33** · 07-27-2003, 03:16 PM

..............

**RON** · 07-27-2003, 04:27 PM

Colt33 your suspended for a week. Read the rules next time

**iron4life79** · 07-27-2003, 05:32 PM

evryone in this thread gave this bro sound advice.
i have nothing yet so much to add.........

so i'll just give props to all who replied....nice job guys.

peace I4L

**chris1tr69** · 07-27-2003, 07:41 PM

If your trying to add 20 pounds off of 4 weeks of dbol with only 2000 calories is going to be immpossible, bump up the calories change gear and start to think more realistically of working out much moire the 3 days a week