What kind of gyno?

[KyleJumpjets]

25 - 5 yrs training
5'10 12%
past cycles- m1t 3 times, dbol only once
winny only once

I got slight gyno 4 years back taking dbol @ 25mg ed. The gyno came up 2 weeks in on the dbol. Nolvadex did not do a thing for me. Left me with some adipose tissue on my chest.

Fast forward 4 years and taking a winny only cycle with my body fat @ 9%


I was doing 50mg winny ed + natural test booster for 6 weeks. Seemed to kill any old psuedo gyno that I had. Great lean muscle gains, no shutdown. Great sex drive. I added 50mg anavar ed. After 3 days gyno began to form. started taken nolva 40 mg ED with no relief of symptoms. Got my hands on some liquid letro. Tapered up to 2.5mg ed for well over a month with zero reduction and a killed sex drive. The gyno seemed to naturally stabilize so I decided to taper off of the letro and alleviate myself from the sides.

Letro rebound!!!!!

I tapered down slowly and came off with reg dose of nolva but still had bad gyno rebound...

Can anyone help me and tell me what the hell went wrong?

[323K137]

You've got to run Letrozole again to reverse the gyno then taper down the Letrozole. Finish it off with Nolva for a week to bring everything back to normal, this should help you avoid a rebound.
How come you weren't running oils and an AI during the cycles instead?

[KyleJumpjets]

The letro didnt work in the first place.

I didnt run any test cause truthfully I didnt do enough research, and no AI during cause i believed winny could not convert to estrogen in the first place.

[323K137]

My mate followed what I just mentioned though it was pharmaceutical Letrozole and it fixed up his gyno 95% - he had gyno rebound as well thats why he needed it (from a previous cycle, not Letrozole)
Read here: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...now-about-GYNO.

Letrozole followed by Nolva is the only way I've seen gyno reversed personally.

[KyleJumpjets]

Can you explain to me the the root reason why i got gyno from winny?

[Bonaparte]

Can you explain to me the the root reason why i got gyno from winny?

There is no way that Winstrol caused gyno while you were taking it. The only way it could have done this was post-cycle from having low test and estrogen rebound.
Same with your "anavar", which makes me think that it wasn't var.

[MrGreen]

The only way it could have done this was post-cycle from having low test and estrogen rebound.

So in theory to this if someone never had gyno issues before and cycled again before their test levels where back to normal gyno could occur or would be more likely? I gathered from Magic that its the human bodies balance between test and estrogen which combats natural gyno. Throwing extra test in the mix and the body not being able to balance it out with the proper amount of estrogen would cause gyno.

Now if someone cycled several times and never had an issue but suddenly gyno did occur could it be due to the body not being fully recovered??

[Bonaparte]

So in theory to this if someone never had gyno issues before and cycled again before their test levels where back to normal gyno could occur or would be more likely?
No, since they would have an androgen in their system.

I gathered from Magic that its the human bodies balance between test and estrogen which combats natural gyno. Throwing extra test in the mix and the body not being able to balance it out with the proper amount of estrogen would cause gyno.
Again, no. As long as you have an androgen in your system, you should not have gyno issues unless estrogen gets really high.

Now if someone cycled several times and never had an issue but suddenly gyno did occur could it be due to the body not being fully recovered??
You need to read more on this subject, since you're pretty confused. This gyno scenario is possible anytime the body has an excess of estrogen and not enough androgens to antagonize the estrogen. It is basically impossible to encounter gyno on a non-aromatizing, non-19-nor cycle, (such as the cycle run by the OP) since DHT derivatives also crush estrogen levels. Any gyno is going to come after the cycle ends, assuming that you don't run a proper PCT to get your estrogen and test levels rebalanced

answers in bold.

[MrGreen]

Ok I am confused even more now. Your body will produce more estrogen on cycle of test to balance out. Once your cycle stops and your test levels drop if your body doesnt quit making the larger amounts of estrogen then you have a possibly case of gyno?

Hence if you do not recover fully and start another cycle your body is all out of wack trying to figure out what to do to balance it out right? Maybe I am leading more into it then needed but from my understandings this is what I have gathered. I will read a bit more about it and see if I can clear up some of my confusion.

For anyone who skims this and doesnt read the entire thread I am confused and this may or may not be true. Its simply a statement of my idea on the subject in hopes to get a response correcting me if I am understanding wrong.

[KyleJumpjets]

So what happened to me was....... Even though i felt like i had no shutdown whatsoever, my natural test levels were low and estrogen was high... resulting in gyno? I had great results and no sides from the winny all the way up until i popped the var. 3 days in i started to get bad sides(water retention, burning nips etc.)

Strange tho cause my buddy took the same batch of var for 6 weeks with zero negative side effects.

I know im suuper sensitive to gyno (2 weeks of low dose dbol = telltale signs of estrogen)

[Bonaparte]

Ok I am confused even more now. Your body will produce more estrogen on cycle of test to balance out.
The male body does not MAKE estrogen. It converts some of the test in your body to estrogen via the aromatase enzyme. Obviously if you dump a bunch more test in your body and have far more free test, your aromatase enzymes will have more test on hand to convert, and they will do so. The same goes with DHT and 5a-r.

Once your cycle stops and your test levels drop if your body doesnt quit making the larger amounts of estrogen then you have a possibly case of gyno?

Hence if you do not recover fully and start another cycle your body is all out of wack trying to figure out what to do to balance it out right? Maybe I am leading more into it then needed but from my understandings this is what I have gathered. I will read a bit more about it and see if I can clear up some of my confusion.

Again, your logic is flawed because you're thinking that your body is producing more estrogen to regain homeostasis. The aromatase and 5 aplha-reductase enzymes serve to rid the body of excess test, but they are operating independently of the HPTA and aren't really working overtime to accomplish this goal. It is just that if you have more test, you will have somewhat proportionately higher levels of enzyme activity.

For anyone who skims this and doesnt read the entire thread I am confused and this may or may not be true. Its simply a statement of my idea on the subject in hopes to get a response correcting me if I am understanding wrong.

bold again.

[Bonaparte]

So what happened to me was....... Even though i felt like i had no shutdown whatsoever, my natural test levels were low and estrogen was high... resulting in gyno? I had great results and no sides from the winny all the way up until i popped the var. 3 days in i started to get bad sides(water retention, burning nips etc.)

Strange tho cause my buddy took the same batch of var for 6 weeks with zero negative side effects.

I know im suuper sensitive to gyno (2 weeks of low dose dbol = telltale signs of estrogen)

Again, this makes me think that you were sold something other than Anavar. Perhaps Anadrol...