Second cycle questions.

**pwnflow** · 12-12-2010, 08:51 PM

Hey guys.

I will be starting my second cycle on Wednesday. Here it is.

Week 1-12= 100mg test prop EOD
Week 1-12= 100mg npp EOD
1mg propecia ED

I need help with pct and AI. I have clomid, nolva and asin on hand. How do I use them? Will I also need HCG ? Also, should I add creatine?

**songdog** · 12-12-2010, 09:35 PM

I personally like HCG .But there is a section on PCT.Check it out bro.

**pwnflow** · 12-13-2010, 04:13 AM

Originally Posted by songdog

I personally like HCG.But there is a section on PCT.Check it out bro.

Thanks bro. The pct forum cleared most of my doubts. What's the verdict on creatine use?

**Bonaparte** · 12-13-2010, 04:49 AM

Hold on!
Using Finasteride with nandrolone will have the opposite effect you're looking for (it will make the NPP much more androgenic and harsh on your hair and prostate). This is because nandrolone itself is pretty androgenic, though most of it converts to dihydronandrolone (especially in the skin and prostate), which is much less androgenic.
Therefore you cannot use nandrolone alongside a 5a-R inhibitor if your goal for using the nandrolone is to avoid androgenic sides.

**pwnflow** · 12-13-2010, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by Bonaparte

Hold on!
Using Finasteride with nandrolone will have the opposite effect you're looking for (it will make the NPP much more androgenic and harsh on your hair and prostate). This is because nandrolone itself is pretty androgenic, though most of it converts to dihydronandrolone (especially in the skin and prostate), which is much less androgenic.
Therefore you cannot use nandrolone alongside a 5a-R inhibitor if your goal for using the nandrolone is to avoid androgenic sides.

I thought that was a myth. I got conflicting results when I did researched about it. Here is an example.

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...mbo-4-hairloss

**Bonaparte** · 12-13-2010, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by pwnflow

I thought that was a myth. I got conflicting results when I did researched about it. Here is an example.

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...mbo-4-hairloss

Did you actually read that thread?
It is 4 years old, and the only vet to post in it stated that it WOULD, in fact, keep the nandrolone in its more androgenic form. The other opinions were just a handful of guys who said "I did it and didn't lose too much hair", but did not even specify whether they were prone to hairloss anyway (nor did anyone mention what doses of which compounds they were using). Sure, personal experiences will vary, but there is a very valid scientific reason why using nandrolone with a 5a-R blocker will drastically increase nandrolone's androgenic effects.
If you're worried about your hair but still want to use nandrolone, drop the finasteride and just lower the dose of test. You can also add in a topical product.
Either that or keep using the Finasteride with a good dose of test, but just avoid Nandrolone.

**pwnflow** · 12-13-2010, 01:56 PM

Originally Posted by Bonaparte

Did you actually read that thread?
It is 4 years old, and the only vet to post in it stated that it WOULD, in fact, keep the nandrolone in its more androgenic form. The other opinions were just a handful of guys who said "I did it and didn't lose too much hair", but did not even specify whether they were prone to hairloss anyway (nor did anyone mention what doses of which compounds they were using). Sure, personal experiences will vary, but there is a very valid scientific reason why using nandrolone with a 5a-R blocker will drastically increase nandrolone's androgenic effects.
If you're worried about your hair but still want to use nandrolone, drop the finasteride and just lower the dose of test. You can also add in a topical product.
Either that or keep using the Finasteride with a good dose of test, but just avoid Nandrolone.

Interesting. I have been on Finasteride for 3 years for MPB so I'm not gonna risk hair loss by stopping it. I might have to replace NPP with primo or eq. Thanks for the heads up.

Btw how exactly would increasing deca 's androgenic effects lead to hair loss? I was under the assumption that dht is the culprit when it come to hair loss, which propecia keeps under check.

**TheMemoryRemains** · 12-13-2010, 02:19 PM

If you got clomid+nolva... this is a clean PCT

week 1-2 clomid 50mg/ed, tamox 40mg/ed
week 3-4 clomid 25mg/ed, tamox 20mg/ed

Creatine is fine, helps most definitly.

HGC, bump for vet info.

GL

**Bonaparte** · 12-13-2010, 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by pwnflow

Interesting. I have been on Finasteride for 3 years for MPB so I'm not gonna risk hair loss by stopping it. I might have to replace NPP with primo or eq. Thanks for the heads up.

Btw how exactly would increasing deca's androgenic effects lead to hair loss? I was under the assumption that dht is the culprit when it come to hair loss, which propecia keeps under check.

Because it doesn't convert to DHT. It converts to DHN, which is LESS androgenic . So if you keep it in its original form, you are using a more potent androgen than most users.

**pwnflow** · 12-13-2010, 08:50 PM

Originally Posted by Bonaparte

Because it doesn't convert to DHT. It converts to DHN, which is LESS androgenic. So if you keep it in its original form, you are using a more potent androgen than most users.

Damn frustrating to know I won't be able to use deca as I looking forward to a great bulk cycle over the winter. Will have to resort to eq and go with slow gains. /end rant.

Thanks anyways.

**Bonaparte** · 12-14-2010, 12:29 AM

No problem. But EQ is worthless for bulking, unless you just need it for the appetite boost (which I never got anyway).
I would just increase the test dose a bit higher than you were planning and shovel down the carbs.
Low dose Dbol for a month would make a good kickstart as well. It is less androgenic than test and more anabolic , after all.

**pwnflow** · 12-14-2010, 01:21 AM

Originally Posted by Bonaparte

No problem. But EQ is worthless for bulking, unless you just need it for the appetite boost (which I never got anyway).
I would just increase the test dose a bit higher than you were planning and shovel down the carbs.
Low dose Dbol for a month would make a good kickstart as well. It is less androgenic than test and more anabolic, after all.

I plan on incorporating deca /eq/primo/var in every cycle for joint help. I have been having nagging pain in knees and elbows and they help with collagen so that's the main reason to include eq. My liver enzymes are still high from anavar so I plan on skipping orals till the levels stabilize. Plus I will be using prop ester so I should feel it within days.

**Bonaparte** · 12-14-2010, 03:44 AM

Originally Posted by pwnflow

I plan on incorporating deca/eq/primo/var in every cycle for joint help. I have been having nagging pain in knees and elbows and they help with collagen so that's the main reason to include eq. My liver enzymes are still high from anavar so I plan on skipping orals till the levels stabilize. Plus I will be using prop ester so I should feel it within days.

Ok. In that case I would highly recommend Primo over EQ if you're looking to see results from it. I've run both at 600mg/week and was far more impressed by the Primo (though it obviously costs a lot more).

**pwnflow** · 12-14-2010, 08:16 PM

Originally Posted by Bonaparte

Ok. In that case I would highly recommend Primo over EQ if you're looking to see results from it. I've run both at 600mg/week and was far more impressed by the Primo (though it obviously costs a lot more).

Been thinking between primo and eq. I did eq for first cycle and I'm not sure how much I really felt it. I ran it for 10 weeks and most vets say eq should be run at 16-20 weeks at 800 to really feel it. I think I will try my luck my primo at 500 per week. But it's gonna triple my cycle cost!!! This better be worth it. How was your experience? I'm looking for lean solid gains. Secondary goal is strength gains.