Preparations for first cycle need help with soem decisions.

**Finalforce** · 12-13-2010, 06:31 PM

Hey Ive been preparing for my pinning cycle now for awhile. At first was gonna stack 500mg Test E with Deca 400mg. I was told to only run Test because it is a good choice for a first cycle but I am worried about my shoulder pain I have now and was considering throwing in 250mg of deca a week. I would be doing 12 weeks of Test E at 500mg and 10 weeks of Deca at 250mg. I would split them up two doses a week 1 cc of test and .5cc deca at each pin. I considered doing just Test and kickstarting with Mdrol but I feel I will not be able to lift at my maximum potential if i have joint issues. Also for AI on cycle would low dose letro be alright was considering .25 or .5mg eod. Thanks alot

**MACHINE5150** · 12-13-2010, 06:35 PM

alot of vets on here will say to run test only but all my friends and myself included did a test and deca combo and no one i know has ever had any problems with it as long as they ran at least 1.5x as much test as deca.. I would say you will be fine with that.

If you have joint problems may i recomend Glucosamine.. it is cheap and effective (for me anyways) it will help with soreness, but not injuries

**Matt** · 12-13-2010, 06:35 PM

If your having problems with your shoulder then i would get that fixed before touching aas....

**Finalforce** · 12-13-2010, 08:28 PM

im using glucosamine as we speak the pain comes and goes and is gettin better. Would running the deca at only 250mg a week do much at all, I want it to help with joint pain and increase gains. Overally my cycle goal is to gain as much lean weight as possible while keeping it after pct. My mind is already set on the cycle its jsut a matter of if I should add the low dose of deca.

**MBMETC** · 12-13-2010, 08:43 PM

As Matt advised wait on the cycle till the pain is gone, the last thing you want is to push too hard and injure yourself mid cycle it would be a waste. Did you ever have a diagnosis on the shoulder?

**pwnflow** · 12-13-2010, 08:46 PM

Deca is a strict no for first cycle. 19-nor steroids are very suppressive and have a different array of effects. If you want to add something for join support then look into eq, primo or anavar . My first cycle was test and eq and I loved it.

**Finalforce** · 12-13-2010, 08:57 PM

isnt eq just as harsh as deca , and I would def need HCG with it? You guys think even if i run only 250mg of deca it will be a bad idea for a first cycle? Do you mind if you tell me what doses you ran for your first cycle pwnflow and how your results were? Like I said I wanna put on good mass and be able to keep most of it.

**markdbg** · 12-13-2010, 09:14 PM

from personal experiance eq isnt as harsh as deca as alot of ppl get more unwanted sides from deca compared to eq. id stick with test for your first cycle although i cant talk seeing as my first cycle was also test and deca, and dont worry about mass, test will blow u up as long as u shovel down the food like ur suppose to and keep away from most the dirty foods.

**Finalforce** · 12-13-2010, 09:26 PM

My diet is good and im starting with a pretty solid base im 202-205lbs 5ft9 11-12%bf(caliper checked) how high of a dosage did u run deca ? If i do run a 2nd compound it will be a low dosage like I said prob just 1 cc a week, in this case which would you guys recommend then eq or deca? If I run straight test I will kick start it with mdrol.- Just been reading up on some eq, and seems like the results are more desirable not as much gains but stil lgood gains and leaning and better for maintaing, would 10 weeks at 250mg benefit at all and would it help with joint lubrication at all? Also do i need to throw in any other ancillaries originally planned to run low dose letro during and regular pct of nolva 40-20-20-10

**pwnflow** · 12-14-2010, 01:31 AM

Originally Posted by Finalforce

isnt eq just as harsh as deca, and I would def need HCG with it? You guys think even if i run only 250mg of deca it will be a bad idea for a first cycle? Do you mind if you tell me what doses you ran for your first cycle pwnflow and how your results were? Like I said I wanna put on good mass and be able to keep most of it.

My first cycle was 250mg test, 400mg eq, and 40mg var every week (var only first four weeks). Not the most traditional first cycle but my goal was to test the waters with steroids and not really to blow up in size. I put on 15lbs and kept it all. I likely should have used more test and use eq for longer period but loved the cycle anyways. Had no sides either, not even acne. I haven't tried deca yet but from what I have read, dht derivatives like primo, var are the mildest, test derivatives like test, eq are moderate, while 19-nor derivatives like deca, tren are the harshest. Better leave 19-nors alone for the first cycle.

**Finalforce** · 12-14-2010, 02:11 AM

Originally Posted by pwnflow

My first cycle was 250mg test, 400mg eq, and 40mg var every week (var only first four weeks). Not the most traditional first cycle but my goal was to test the waters with steroids and not really to blow up in size. I put on 15lbs and kept it all. I likely should have used more test and use eq for longer period but loved the cycle anyways. Had no sides either, not even acne. I haven't tried deca yet but from what I have read, dht derivatives like primo, var are the mildest, test derivatives like test, eq are moderate, while 19-nor derivatives like deca, tren are the harshest. Better leave 19-nors alone for the first cycle.

Interesting cycle I think im decided on running Test Eth 500mg 12 weeks and EQ at 375mg a week (1.5ccweekly) for 10 weeks. Like I said I wanna put on good clean mass while keeping as much as possible, plus the hardening and vascularity from EQ is another plus. What you guys think

**Bonaparte** · 12-14-2010, 04:39 AM

The main problem with incorporating a 19-nor into your first cycle is the instant and complete HPTA shutdown that they cause. This makes it rather bothersome if, like so many newbies who get in over their head, you decide after a few shots that steroids aren't for you or something. If it were test, you could just run a simple PCT and there would be no problem. With Deca , you have to wait 3 weeks then run a full PCT. And even then your recovery is going to be much tougher and require a better PCT.
So if you're going to run a 19-nor, you may as well use an effective dose and wait until you actually need it later on down the line, since 200mg and 500mg will both shut you down from the first shot.

**Finalforce** · 12-14-2010, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by Bonaparte

The main problem with incorporating a 19-nor into your first cycle is the instant and complete HPTA shutdown that they cause. This makes it rather bothersome if, like so many newbies who get in over their head, you decide after a few shots that steroids aren't for you or something. If it were test, you could just run a simple PCT and there would be no problem. With Deca , you have to wait 3 weeks then run a full PCT. And even then your recovery is going to be much tougher and require a better PCT.
So if you're going to run a 19-nor, you may as well use an effective dose and wait until you actually need it later on down the line, since 200mg and 500mg will both shut you down from the first shot.

Yes I have decided to completely rule out deca because it seems it is way to harsh for a first cycle, but how do you feel about my previous post on running test e 500mg 12weeks and eq for 10 weeks at 375mg(Considering running 500mg if you guys think it will be much more beneficial). EQ is clearly less harsh and provides all the results I desire quality lean mass and ability to retain it, and also I read it helps with joint pain alittle.

**Bonaparte** · 12-14-2010, 07:40 PM

Originally Posted by Finalforce

Yes I have decided to completely rule out deca because it seems it is way to harsh for a first cycle, but how do you feel about my previous post on running test e 500mg 12weeks and eq for 10 weeks at 375mg(Considering running 500mg if you guys think it will be much more beneficial). EQ is clearly less harsh and provides all the results I desire quality lean mass and ability to retain it, and also I read it helps with joint pain alittle.

I disagree with that. EQ sucks for musclebuilding, though it is good for your joints, ligaments, and vascularity.

**Littleirishman** · 12-14-2010, 08:14 PM

justt do the test and for you next cycle mix it up. .

**Finalforce** · 12-14-2010, 08:21 PM

Originally Posted by Bonaparte

I disagree with that. EQ sucks for musclebuilding, though it is good for your joints, ligaments, and vascularity.

well even if it doesnt give me a bonus to my musclebuilding the test alone should build more then enough, and the fact that it is helpfull for my joints and ligaments is a big plus for me would 500mg be to much?