PLEASE! question for the experienced? (Third cycle input needed)

[VA703]

Im 25, 238lbs, 18%bf.

First cycle was 50mg var ed and 500mg eq weeks 1-12
2nd cycle was test-e 250mg x2 per week for 12 weeks.
I am planning to start next cycle when I get my bf% a little lower. when I do I want to run my cycle as follows

week 1-12 test-e 600mg per week
week 1-6 test-p 150mg eod
week 1-4 dball at 40mg per day
week 1-12 arimidex .25mg per day
week 8-12 hcg 500iu's per week

week 14-18 clomid and nolvadex

I cant run them for longer then these lengths as this is all the gear I have. My main question is at this arrangement my test is boosted at the beginning, then tapers down after week 6. Would it make more sense to run more like this?:

week 1-12 test-e
week 1-4 dball
week 4-12 test prop at 100mg eod

1) I feel this way my test levels are higher towards the end of my cycle, would this make more sense or be better?

2) should I run arimidex at .25 eod instead of every day? I want to keep the bloating down a little but I dont want it to take away from my gains. I do have letro also If gyno get un managable.

Please help me run this cycle as ifficiant as possable, Thanks bros!

[vettewreck]

So you say you want to keep bloat down but yet youre running Dbol . Kinda one or the other on that one buddy ya know. Dbol gives bloat. I embrace it as it only makes me stronger and I can gain better mas with it overall. I dont understand why you wanna run the prop with the test-e? Im guessing as a kick start? IMO, if youre gonna run prop at all, Id run it at the start to kick start but then again thats what the dbol is for so Im kinda confused. Maybe just not use the prop at all bc to me, it has no place in this cycle.

[VA703]

I really dont care about the bloat honestly. Originally I was going to run the prop as a kick start because I want gains throughout my cycle. Last cycle I didnt really feel the test-e in me till about 5-6 weeks in. by the time I saw the gains I was looking for my cycle was over.
I came accross some d-ball and thought I would throw it in this cycle in hopes that it would really boost my weeks 1-4. Then it accured to me that I would see if anyone ran prop and enanth together allmost like taking a sust blend. This might sound pretty ignorant but I feel like in this case the prop and enanth together will only be better, I mean really why not? I feel it would only help and thats why Im trying to figgure if I should use d-ball and prop as a kick start or run the d-ball as a kickstart and finish on the prop an enanth together.

[vettewreck]

Drop the prop. Look at it this way. This is your 3rd cyle. You certianly dont need 900mg/1050mg a week of test. Test is test no matter the ester. Even after last injection you still should be gaining 2-4 weeks after. It takes that long to get in, its long before its out. Just b/c you stop at week 12 doesnt mean you stop gaining then. If youre gonna run the prop at all, only run it for the first 2 weeks with the dbol and stop the prop at week 2, but continue the Dbol till week 4. It will basically be like front loading. (front loading is using a higher dose for the first week or 2 only)

Weeks 1-12 Test-e
Weeks 1-4 Dbol
Weeks 1-2 Test-p

[Duckhombre]

I would do the second one, except run the prop out to week 14 or 15 so it will coincide with the end of the enanthate and you can get a better switch from cycle to pct, if it that makes sense. You won't have to go through that awkward tapering down time when there is still enough to suppress you, but not enough to be anabolic , you know what I mean?

If you're gonna do vettewreck's thing, don't frontload prop and bol at the same time, do the bol after, you will be blown away with what bol will do to you if you are allready at good test levels! I sometimes throw it in to get over the mid-cycle stick, and it never disappoints!

Prop can find a home a home in any cycle. Either a kick start, plateau jumper, or closer, it has a place.

[vettewreck]

I would do the second one, except run the prop out to week 14 or 15 so it will coincide with the end of the enanthate .

No way. Thats still 800/900mg a week of test for a 3rd cycle. No fkn way.

[Far from massive]

I have read several people post that using Prop to kick start/front load an E or C cycle is a bad idea as the huge increase in blood levels weeks in a case like your in wks 5-6 followed by a huge drop in wk 7 will often cause sides to appear.

My thought would be to run the prop in steadily decreasing doses (opposite to the build up of the long estered test be it C or E) to try to achieve a steady state of active test through out the cycle. Say in your case 90ed wk1 80ed wk2 70ed wk3 55ed wk4 35 ed wk5 35 eod wk6.

It seems the drug companies feel this approach has merit as they front load single doses of long esters the same way with various esters in the sustanon type products.

I have yet to see anyone explain why this would not be a better approach than just kickstarting/front loading with a constant dose of either an oral or prop.

PS I agree on the amount of the dosage being too high for a 3rd cycle the example given above is just for comparison to the original 150 eod and should be reduced by 33% just like the dosage of the Test E should.

[VA703]

Damn now what? I quess I will listen to whos bigger, duckhombre or vettewreck... I dont know vettewreck is pretty jacked....
Just kidding, I do apreciate both of your guys input.
Hey vettewreck, whats with your concerns of that being to much test for a third cycle? Im running a good pct and have gyno preventitive ready to go. Is it just dangerous? I am a pretty big guy and up the dose on anything because of it.

[Duckhombre]

I was going to say listen to who's been around longer, but damn, I didn't realize he's been around the block for a while, too... I agree with vettewreck that the proposed dose is too high, but I still like the clean finish prop will give you. It's allot a test, but only for a short duration. You better have your AI and serms on the ready if this your fate of choice.

[VA703]

they are ready, Im going to run .25 arimidex ed, and hcg while on cycle. I have letro if needed and Im running clomid and nolva pct. Lets just say it may not be a good idea to run this much and lets just say if I was going to anyway, what would be the best way to run all these compounds duckhombre? Thanks for your help bro!

[The Titan99]

As far as the AI is concerned, I've run Aromasin on cycle before and hated it. After that I've run Proviron and it is definitely the ticket. Acts as a mild AI for heavier Test/Deca type cycles, controls bloat, super libido blaster and instead of possibly inhibiting gains, it acts as a Test enhancer. I use 100 mg ed with every cycle from now on. I'd also run HCG from the start. Also, I've never done it, but I was considering switching to the whole prop thing at the end of this Test/Deca cycle just to coordinate the whole exact PCT thing (21 days Deca, 18 days for Sust seems like a long and vague timing as opposed to 3 days for prop) For instance stop the Deca 4 weeks from PCT, 3 days later take the last Sust. shot, 9 days later start prop eod for 3 weeks, three days after last shot, PCT!!! I've been thinking about this a lot, but since I've never done it I would appreciate any comments at all on it. Hope it's not hijacking, it just seems appropriate to the Op's, OP.

[The Titan99]

Damn!! Double post...

[yungone501]

Im ridin' with Vette on this matter.

There's qbsolutely NO reason to run this much test with ur experience. The 2 wk prop jump start is not a bad idea if u just gotta run it. Otherwise, like vette says, prop has no place in this cycle.

[vettewreck]

I understand what Far From Massive is saying. To avoid complications, imo, just drop the prop. You will always find a home for it in another cycle, just not this one.

As for running too much test, theres just no reason to. Higher doses does not always mean more gains... at least if your bodys not ready for it. Your body basically eventually builds up a tolerance to test/gear. You want to maximize every dose while you can with the time you have at that dose while its working. Make sense?