First cycle, eq and test

**crf250rider** · 01-04-2011, 12:30 PM

Ok guys I've been doing some research and trying to figure out my first cycle and this is what I have come up with. Let me know what you think.

Weeks 1-12 equipoise 400mg/week
Weeks 1-14 test enanthe 500mg/week
Weeks 11-14 hcg ??
Weeks 16-20 nolva 20mg/day

I am a little confused on the hcg because I have read in many different places all different amounts to take. I did see on here that it said 500iu ed or 1000iu eod, is that still accurate because I saw that thread was from a while ago? Also do I need to take an AI with nolva or will the nolva be enough? Any other ideas would be appreciated.

**MBMETC** · 01-04-2011, 12:34 PM

please post full stats
age
weight
height
bf%
yrs training
planned pct
goals for this cycle

**SlimmerMe** · 01-04-2011, 12:38 PM

Welcome! stats please so you can get personalized help

**crf250rider** · 01-04-2011, 01:01 PM

I'm 22, 5'10 185 lbs, 11% bf and I've been training for about 3 years. For pct I am going to take 20 mg nolva for 4 weeks. Does nolva need to be frontloaded or is it fine just taking the same amount everyday? That's all I have planned for pct but I know I'm missing something in it, that's why I posted my cycle info before I started. My goal on this cycle is to bulk up mostly but I also want to lose some bf.

**MBMETC** · 01-04-2011, 01:03 PM

sorry this board tries to keep a higher standard and does not recommend the use of aas to persons under 25

**DIRTYMAX** · 01-04-2011, 01:06 PM

understanding... but if he IS going to do it.. you might as well help him out and educate him on correct and incorrect ways of doing things. Safety is a concern with a lot of this and younger guys sometimes taking "locker room" advice which could be no further from the truth at times.

**carp123** · 01-04-2011, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by MBMETC

sorry this board tries to keep a higher standard and does not recommend the use of aas to persons under 25

so your not willing to help anyone over the age of 25? lol i fond that very starnge indeed.

to the op ,leave the eq out and run a simple test e cycle

weels 1-12 500mgs test per week

14 days after last injection start pct

nolvadex 40/40/20/20

clomid 100/50/50/25

have nolvadex on hand for gyno problems on cycle ,if you see/feel gyno comeing start nolvadex at 20mgs every day untill its settled down and then 10mgs every day right upto pct...

easy..

**carp123** · 01-04-2011, 01:10 PM

Originally Posted by DIRTYMAX

understanding... but if he IS going to do it.. you might as well help him out and educate him on correct and incorrect ways of doing things. Safety is a concern with a lot of this and younger guys sometimes taking "locker room" advice which could be no further from the truth at times.

totaly true and a great attitude..

**PistolStarta** · 01-04-2011, 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by carp123

so your not willing to help anyone over the age of 25? lol i fond that very starnge indeed.

to the op ,leave the eq out and run a simple test e cycle

weels 1-12 500mgs test per week

14 days after last injection start pct

nolvadex 40/40/20/20

clomid 100/50/50/25

have nolvadex on hand for gyno problems on cycle ,if you see/feel gyno comeing start nolvadex at 20mgs every day untill its settled down and then 10mgs every day right upto pct...

easy..

You mean under the age of 25 I think, and yea most people on this board dont.

**MBMETC** · 01-04-2011, 01:11 PM

i gave him help, i have seen too many posts about guys his age complaining the cant get a good hard-on 6 months or a year after using. his best alternitive is eat, sleep, train and whey protien, creatine and maybe some no

**carp123** · 01-04-2011, 01:12 PM

Originally Posted by PistolStarta

You mean under the age of 25 I think, and yea most people on this board dont.

yes sorry under the age of 25 ...

**marcus300** · 01-04-2011, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by crf250rider

I'm 22, 5'10 185 lbs, 11% bf and I've been training for about 3 years. For pct I am going to take 20 mg nolva for 4 weeks. Does nolva need to be frontloaded or is it fine just taking the same amount everyday? That's all I have planned for pct but I know I'm missing something in it, that's why I posted my cycle info before I started. My goal on this cycle is to bulk up mostly but I also want to lose some bf.

You shouldnt cycle at your age, you can do alot more naturally at your age with your natural testosterone . Your HPTA isnt fully developed yet and by shutting it down you can cause yourself some serious problems what you wished you never had in your 20's, you will never have such high amounts of natural test in your body so use it and understand how to build muscle naturally with foods and training rather than thinking the answer is within an injection or pill.

The isnt a correct way to cycle at your age, the correct way is do it naturally for another couple of years and build more of a base.

**carp123** · 01-04-2011, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by MBMETC

i gave him help, i have seen too many posts about guys his age complaining the cant get a good hard-on 6 months or a year after using. his best alternitive is eat, sleep, train and whey protien, creatine and maybe some no

yes that maybe true but in the real world 99% of people dont look at it like this so why not guide him in the best possable way ?

**PistolStarta** · 01-04-2011, 01:15 PM

Originally Posted by carp123

yes that maybe true but in the real world 99% of people dont look at it like this so why not guide him in the best possable way ?

Pretty much anyone who uses this website for research can learn the proper way to cycle by investing alittle search time. The members making the choice to not answer questions for anyone under 25 (even though I see 24 and sometimes 23 slide) is not one I see as wrong. All he had to do was head over to PCT section to see his very lacking there, and a search of EQ will show mixed results on any of its uses.

**DIRTYMAX** · 01-04-2011, 01:18 PM

I can understand your reasoning for that. Im not going to lie, I'm 23. However i have been very careful w my cycles and pct, never giving me any problems with sex drive or getting hard. I suppose it's really just dependant on the person and attention to detail with what they are doing. Personally i've been trying to get into bodybuilding and do a show or two to see how i like it. And you and i both know that "all natural" trainging gains can only go so far...

**MBMETC** · 01-04-2011, 01:19 PM

[QUOTE=carp123;5479107]yes that maybe true but in the real world 99% of people dont look at it like this so why not guide him in the best possable way ?[/QUOTE]

well you've seen fit to already do that i hope your around in a 6 months when he wants help getting his junk working again

**marcus300** · 01-04-2011, 01:23 PM

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...ids&highlight=

**carp123** · 01-04-2011, 01:25 PM

[QUOTE=MBMETC;5479115]

Originally Posted by carp123

yes that maybe true but in the real world 99% of people dont look at it like this so why not guide him in the best possable way ?[/QUOTE]

well you've seen fit to already do that i hope your around in a 6 months when he wants help getting his junk working again

bro no offece but dont parroit that stuff ,if he runs a correct pct and keeps everything in order there is no reason he will get limp dick ,come on your saying becasue someone is over 25 they wont get limp dick? lol

**marcus300** · 01-04-2011, 01:31 PM

[QUOTE=carp123;5479123
bro no offece but dont parroit that stuff ,if he runs a correct pct and keeps everything in order there is no reason he will get limp dick ,come on your saying becasue someone is over 25 they wont get limp dick? lol[/QUOTE]

I am sorry but you don't know what your talking about, no matter if he runs a proper pct it still doesn't mean he will be fine, the risk is greater seeing that his HPTA isn't fully developed yet and hasn't established its patterns yet.

**Matt** · 01-04-2011, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by marcus300

I am sorry but you don't know what your talking about, no matter if he runs a proper pct it still doesn't mean he will be fine, the risk is greater seeing that his HPTA isn't fully developed yet and hasn't established its patterns yet.

BTW this post was ment for carp123 and not MBMTEC

**PistolStarta** · 01-04-2011, 01:34 PM

theres two sides to each coin. I did prohormones at 22 and couldnt maintain an erection for 4 months. You cant just assume proper pct saves everyone.

**carp123** · 01-04-2011, 01:35 PM

everyone has there own opinian ,i used steroids at 20 and while i ddi suffer some sex drive problems becasue i dident do pct i found educating myself and understanding how to recover fully helped alot ,never had a problem since..

**MBMETC** · 01-04-2011, 01:35 PM

op stick around long enough and read there are plenty of posts from young guys who messed themselves up if not permanently, long enough to scare them away for a long time

**Matt** · 01-04-2011, 01:37 PM

[QUOTE=carp123;5479123

bro no offece but dont parroit that stuff ,if he runs a correct pct and keeps everything in order there is no reason he will get limp dick ,come on your saying becasue someone is over 25 they wont get limp dick? lol[/QUOTE]

carp, here at ar we advise people under the age of 25 not to cycle and most of the time they listen, if your not happy with this advice given then there are many other boards out there for you to join...

There are also many threads on here explaining the heightened risks of cycling under the age of 25...

**Superhero d-bolman** · 01-04-2011, 01:42 PM

i think this whole 25 rule is getting ridiculous, I understand someone not wanting to give advice to an 18 year old or something. But this kid is 22, for one the hpta is still just a theory not a fact, i never heard of this hpta not being fully developed side effect being listed on the national institute for drug abuse for one. I understand that you should discourage someone from taking steroids till they are 25 but refusing to give him help unless hes at 25 if hes gonna do it anyways is ****ing stupid, anyways aren't we forgetting that someone who is a 22 year old is old enough to make his own decisions?

**carp123** · 01-04-2011, 01:43 PM

my point is the world we live in now is so fast paced that youg guys want fast gains ,yes waiting and building a good solid base with a good diet is the key most of us know that but the matter of the fact is alot of people wont listen and if they dont get the advise on how to cycle in the right manner they ill more or likely go and listen to some clueless guy down the gym who will recomend a very bad cycle and the user will end up alot worse of than if he was given the right info from the likes of this forum ,thats all am pointing out..

**carp123** · 01-04-2011, 01:45 PM

yes i would like to see this solid info telling us that the HPTA isn't fully developed yet and hasn't established its patterns untill past the age of around 25 ?

**vettewreck** · 01-04-2011, 01:52 PM

Why does every noob insist on taking multiple compounds for a FIRST cycle???? This is your FIRST cycle!!! Use ONE compound.. TEST... Then go from there!!!

**marcus300** · 01-04-2011, 02:00 PM

seeing that some younger guy missed clicking the link i provided here it is in full text.

Due to the recent number of PM's ive been receiving regarding age and steroids I thought i'd write this thread to try and help some of our younger members. Ive also been having a conversation with my Endocrinologist who may give a more profession opinion on the subject:

There isn't an exact age were we all stop developing and growing because this is determined by our genes and DNA, we are all genetically programmed individually and we inherit our genes from our parents. To give an exact age we stop growing would be incorrect because everyone's genetic blueprint is different.The main development of our bodies is up to the age of 21yrs of age but this can vary between individuals. There are parts of our bodies what carry on developing and adjusting slowly up until the age of 25yrs old, an example of this is the brain. The Endocrine system is a part of the brain what is very complex and keeps our bodies in a homeostasis state. Our testosterone levels start raising and roughly peak around 25yrs old and then start to slowly decline, so even though some of us may have stopped growing at the age of 21yrs old, others may still be developing up until the age of 25yrs old.

I have recently spoken to my Endo regarding this matter and he tells me that the HPTA is very sensitive and as many pathways how it regulates the human body, he states steroids disrupt the normal balance of hormones in the body which can cause reversible and irreversible changes at any age but risks are far more if you administrate exogenous androgens during development, this will put you in a very unnatural environment at a crucial time and your hormones should be treated with care especially in the early stages of maturity. The adverse effects can be erratic behaviour of the HPTA and potentially therapy when your older.

I did ask him what age he would think would be the safest as far as risk to damages and he said many endocrinologist suggest full maturation is reached by 25 years of age and this would also give the HPTA time to be established with your natural hormone balance and patterns. I personally feel 24-25yrs old would also be ideal starting point to get bloodwrok drawn to see exact what your natural levels are before starting any kind of cycles and waiting till you have reach your testosterone peak would be a good starting point, for me there is to much evidence over the forums and what I've seen personally over the last 25yrs I've been bodybuilding. Obviously it isn't going to be all 19- 21yr old bodybuilders who suffer side effects what are irreversible but I am edging on the side of caution what age I advice to the newbies.

**MBMETC** · 01-04-2011, 02:00 PM

maybe i should have not spoke on behalf of the board so let me be more clear iv'e decided i wont offer advice to anyone under 25.

**carp123** · 01-04-2011, 02:06 PM

Originally Posted by marcus300

seeing that some younger guy missed clicking the link i provided here it is in full text.

Due to the recent number of PM's ive been receiving regarding age and steroids I thought i'd write this thread to try and help some of our younger members. Ive also been having a conversation with my Endocrinologist who may give a more profession opinion on the subject:

There isn't an exact age were we all stop developing and growing because this is determined by our genes and DNA, we are all genetically programmed individually and we inherit our genes from our parents. To give an exact age we stop growing would be incorrect because everyone's genetic blueprint is different.The main development of our bodies is up to the age of 21yrs of age but this can vary between individuals. There are parts of our bodies what carry on developing and adjusting slowly up until the age of 25yrs old, an example of this is the brain. The Endocrine system is a part of the brain what is very complex and keeps our bodies in a homeostasis state. Our testosterone levels start raising and roughly peak around 25yrs old and then start to slowly decline, so even though some of us may have stopped growing at the age of 21yrs old, others may still be developing up until the age of 25yrs old.

I have recently spoken to my Endo regarding this matter and he tells me that the HPTA is very sensitive and as many pathways how it regulates the human body, he states steroids disrupt the normal balance of hormones in the body which can cause reversible and irreversible changes at any age but risks are far more if you administrate exogenous androgens during development, this will put you in a very unnatural environment at a crucial time and your hormones should be treated with care especially in the early stages of maturity. The adverse effects can be erratic behaviour of the HPTA and potentially therapy when your older.

I did ask him what age he would think would be the safest as far as risk to damages and he said many endocrinologist suggest full maturation is reached by 25 years of age and this would also give the HPTA time to be established with your natural hormone balance and patterns. I personally feel 24-25yrs old would also be ideal starting point to get bloodwrok drawn to see exact what your natural levels are before starting any kind of cycles and waiting till you have reach your testosterone peak would be a good starting point, for me there is to much evidence over the forums and what I've seen personally over the last 25yrs I've been bodybuilding. Obviously it isn't going to be all 19- 21yr old bodybuilders who suffer side effects what are irreversible but I am edging on the side of caution what age I advice to the newbies.

no offence buddy but thats hear say and proves nothing ,am talking about solid full reports that prove what you and others are saying ,the above is just one endo and his opinans ,for one of the largest steroid forums on the net to be based on one endos comments is just silly imo ,again no offece intened here .

**marcus300** · 01-04-2011, 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by carp123

no offence buddy but thats hear say and proves nothing ,am talking about solid full reports that prove what you and others are saying ,the above is just one endo and his opinans ,for one of the largest steroid forums on the net to be based on one endos comments is just silly imo ,again no offece intened here .

please go and check out for youself regarding when we stop growing, the brain stops around 25 yrs old and the hormones are regulated via the HPTA, ive spoken to many endo's and doctors regarding this subject. Everyone knows there isnt a set age for when we stop growing its an indivdual thing but the brain is the last thing what developes and many studies and article claim its around the age of 25yrs old, do a google search and do some research.

Its strange how its the young who think its great to cycle, no offence buddy but your to young to understand how your body recats and recovers to know a dame thing, ive seen many many young guys on hrt due to starting to young and this forum is littered with threads, go and check out the HRT section and see how many 20 odd yr olds are in there crying!!

No offence but you dont know what your saying or doing but in time you will understand, take your blinkers off and learn to listen to people who know, ive probably been cycling longer than you have been alive, best of luck to you!!

This forum tries and explains the risks involved in starting steroids before you have fully developed, the risk is greater if you do start taking hormones before you have fully developed, some of us would rather not advice someone to increase this risk of damage,

**Matt** · 01-04-2011, 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by carp123

no offence buddy but thats hear say and proves nothing ,am talking about solid full reports that prove what you and others are saying ,the above is just one endo and his opinans ,for one of the largest steroid forums on the net to be based on one endos comments is just silly imo ,again no offece intened here .

This isnt science or wizardry, its a fact that ones hpta/endocrine system isn't fully developed in most adults males until the ages of 24/25, thats a fact.. So that said if your adding foreign compounds that shut down ones hpta and alter feed back loops messing with the endocrine system then cause and effect can and in often so many cases causes long term health issues.....

This wouldn't come under scientific study as we all know that no where in the world would they start injecting 18/23 year olds with aas for case studies. It would come under common sense... We know that smoking at a young age can cause growth stunting, this isn't because doctors decided to give cigarettes to 14 year olds......

**MBMETC** · 01-04-2011, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by Matt

This isnt science or wizardry, its a fact that ones hpta/endocrine system isn't fully developed in most adults males until the ages of 24/25, thats a fact.. So that said if your adding foreign compounds that shut down ones hpta and alter feed back loops messing with the endocrine system then cause and effect can and it in often so many cases causes long term health issues.....

This wouldn't come under scientific study as we all know that no where in the world would they start injecting 18/23 year olds with aas for case studies. It would come under common sense... We know that smoking at a young age can cause growth stunting, this isn't because doctors decided to give cigarettes to 14 year olds......

thats classic...love it

**MBMETC** · 01-04-2011, 02:29 PM

Yesterday 08:02 PM #1 cap20
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New Member
Join Date:Jun 2010
Posts:26erectile dysfunction,need help!plz
Hi everybody,
i am 22 years old iv done 3 cycles each or 3 months:1)sustanon 500 mg a week deca 400 mgs a week, 2)test e 500 mgs a week and tren 400 mgs a week,
3)test e 500 mgs a week equipise 600 mgs a week.
i did after every cycle about 6 weeks pct:clomid and nolv for the first 2 cycles,
3rd cycle did hcg 500 a week and armidex during the cycle and nolv and clomid after.
now to the sad part-when i have sex with my girl i have an eraction for like 5-10 mins and then i loose it,i get soft.and even the eraction i do have is not 100% strong.
i went to do some blood work and my blood work is fine,just my test levels r a lil higher then normal.so i dont even know what to do anymore.i finished my last cycle 3 months ago and there is no improvment!
them most ****ed up thing is i orderd calis and viagra from ar-r and the calis help to keep the eraction a lil longer but i still get soft,the viagra doesnt efect me at all,i dont feel any differentce when i use it,i get soft as quick as if i wouldnt use it.
my girl and me r geting frustrated,please help me!!!!!!!!
any suggestions or feed back is welcome!
thanks you so much guys!!!!!

p.s - all i know is ill never juice again or at list not for the followin 15 years!

.
.
.
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thats good enough for me

sorry for the copy and past i dont know how to insert links yet

**carp123** · 01-04-2011, 02:31 PM

did arnold use steroids ?

lol jokeing ,no guys am not saying anyone is right or wrong but i am yet to find or see a study showing that the hpta isnt fully developed untill the age of 25ish ,anyway been a nice thread nice to read all the comments.

**crf250rider** · 01-04-2011, 03:33 PM

Woah woah guys lol
I respect the fact that this board doesn't really give advice to people under 25 and I didn't know that. I'm not a noob around the eating and training aspect as 2 and a half years ago I weighed 145 lbs so I've done a lot naturally but for the last 8 months or so I've plateaued and nothing I do seems to help. I've done 2 a days, eaten up to 4000 calories a day (clean calories of course), changed workouts (several different ways), etc. I just wanted to take a cycle with mild side effects to help me get a jump back on things. Btw I've taken a cycle of prohormones with proper pct and have had no long term effects on my dick lol. I just wanted some experienced opinions to make sure I had a good grasp on the real stuff.

**cro** · 01-04-2011, 06:29 PM

like everyone basicaly said no one wants to recommend something that could possibly hurt you . until you have reached the your max natty growth. other than that good luck with your dicission...

**renjr70** · 01-04-2011, 09:32 PM

Originally Posted by vettewreck

Why does every noob insist on taking multiple compounds for a FIRST cycle???? This is your FIRST cycle!!! Use ONE compound.. TEST... Then go from there!!!

I think, and this was my case also because i am still researching my first cycle, that newbies don't think of test as a "steroid " and that it's not very powerful on it's own. They think that you need to add something to it. I certainly did before i started reading this forum.