4th Cycle Setup (Any Suggestions?)

[BJJ]

1st Cycle: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=403234
2nd Cycle: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=424412
3rd Cycle: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...NPP-EQ-DBOL%29

Results: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...es-%28DEXAs%29

FRONT-LOAD (21/03/2011 - 27/03/2011)
Week 0 Somatropin 8 iu ed [Early Morning, Post WO]
Week 0 Testosterone Suspension 30 mg ed [Morning]
Week 0 Testosterone Sustanon 540 mg [Morning, m/th] {Acetate/Propionate /Phenylpropionate/Isocaproate/Decanoate}
Week 0 Mesterolone 200 mg ed [Morning, Evening]
Week 0 Boldenone Undecylenate 1 g [Morning, m/th]
Week 0 L-Thyroxine 100 mcg ed [Early Morning]
Week 0 rMelanocortin Peptide Alpha-Melanocyte Stimulating Hormone 500 mcg ed [Evening]

CUT (28/03/2011 - ??/??/2011)
Week 1-4 rMelanocortin Peptide Alpha-Melanocyte Stimulating Hormone 500 mcg ed [Evening]
Week 1-7 Testosterone Propionate 100 mg ed [Morning]
Week 1-7 Oxandrolone 70 mg ed [Morning, Evening]
Week 1-7 Drostanolone Propionate 100 mg ed [Morning]
Week 1-7 Boldenone Undecylenate 800 mg ew [Morning, m/th]
Week 1-7 Growth Hormone Releasing Hexapeptide 150 mcg ed [Before Bed]
Week 1-7 Exemestane 12.5 mg e3.5d [Evening, m/th]
Week 1-7 Human Chorionic Gonadotropin 250 iu e3.5d [Evening, m/th]

BRIDGE (??/??/2011 - ??/??/2011)
Week 8-10 Testosterone Sustanon 270 mg ew [Morning, m/th]
Week 8-10 Mesterolone 100 mg ed [Morning, Evening]
Week 8-10 Growth Hormone Releasing Hexapeptide 300 mcg ed [Post WO, Before Bed]

BULK (??/??/2011 - ??/??/2011)
Week 11-16 Testosterone Propionate 150 mg ed [Morning]
Week 11-16 Nandrolone Phenylpropionate 50 mg ed [Morning]
Week 11-16 Mesterolone 150 mg ed [Morning, Evening]
Week 11-16 Exemestane 12.5 mg e3.5d [Evening, m/th]
Week 11-16 Cabergoline 0.25 mg e3.5d [Evening, m/th]
Week 11-16 Human Chorionic Gonadotropin 1500 iu 1stw - 250 iu e3.5d [Evening, m/th]
Week 16 Somatropin 4 iu ed [Early Morning]
Week 16 L-Thyroxine 100 mcg ed [Early Morning]

PCT (??/??/2011 - ??/??/2011)
Week 17-20 Clomiphene Citrate 150/100/50/50 mg ed [Morning]
Week 17-22 Tamoxifen Citrate 40/20/20/20/20/20 mg ed [Morning]
Week 17-26 Somatropin 4 iu ed [Early Morning]
Week 17-26 L-Thyroxine 100 mcg ed [Early Morning]
Week 23 Human Chorionic Gonadotropin 250 iu eod [Evening, m/w/f]
Week 23 Human Menopausal Gonadotropin 75 mg eod [PG] [Evening, m/w/f]
Week 23 Exemestane 25 mg eod [Evening, m/w/f]
Week 23 Cabergoline 0.25 mg eod [Evening, m/w/f]
Week 24 Glutathione 1200 mg ed [Evening]

TOTALS:
rHGH 364 (56 iu) - GHRP-6 13650 (35000 mcg)
Testosterone Suspension 210 (3000 mg) - Testosterone Propionate 11200 (6000 mg) - Testosterone Enanthate nil (1000 mg) - Testosterone Sustanon 1350 (6400 mg)
Nandrolone Phenylpropionate 2100 (0 mg)
Trenbolone Acetate nil (1600 mg)
Oxandrolone 3430 (2000 mg)
Drostanolone Propionate 4900 (3000 mg)
Mesterolone 9600 (5000 mg)
Boldenone Undecylenate 6600 (6000 mg)
Exemestane 400 (875 mg) - Anastrozole nil (20 mg) - Letrozole nil (50 mg)
Cabergoline 3.75 (20 mg)
T4 9870 (15000 mcg)
T3 nil (1250 mcg)
HCG 8250 (10000 iu) - HMG 225 (0 iu)
Clomiphene Citrate 2450 (5100 mg) - Tamoxifen Citrate 980 (1160 mg)
Finasteride nil (150 mg)
α-MSH 17500 (30000 mcg)
GSH 8400 (0 mg)

[BJJ]

Question for the Vets:

Do you think the amount of Sustanon in the bridge section to be appropriate?
Thank you

[pavlenko]

wow that's a shit load of juice...unless you a professional athlete or pro bb i think your over doing it by a long shot

[Duckhombre]

I don't know if it was just an error, but there is no GH mentioned in 'Bulk Phase 1?' I don't get the reasoning behind choosing sust for such a short bridge? It has been my experience that mesterolone give better results being spread out, avoiding that wake up bloated thing.

[BJJ]

wow that's a shit load of juice...unless you a professional athlete or pro bb i think your over doing it by a long shot

I do not think that 4 compunds are "a shit load of juice" but I respect your stained opinion.

[BJJ]

I don't know if it was just an error, but there is no GH mentioned in 'Bulk Phase 1?' I don't get the reasoning behind choosing sust for such a short bridge? It has been my experience that mesterolone give better results being spread out, avoiding that wake up bloated thing.

No error since there is no GH at all during the cycle and in the bridge is mentioned just to hold more easily what accomplished in the bulk 1 period. In the frontload I want to create an anabolic environment before starting.
The reason for sust is that I can inject it twice a week to rest from ed pinning and since I already tried cyp I wanted to figure out how I react on such a mix of esters.
Regarding mesterolone, in my experience there is no difference if I spread it during the day or take it all in the morning, in spite of its half life.

[baseline_9]

Its defo a big cycle

Well at least IMO it is

I will be watching this one, im sur 3.25 grams of gear a week will make u grow just a bit

U will have no blood in ur system, u will just be running on oil from the gear LOL

What are ur current stats

[Dukkit]

I dont see the point of lowering the EQ dose during the bridge. It takes so long to reach stable levels and to kick in that I would just keep it at 600-800 the entire time. Its a weak compound so it wont make much of a difference during the bridge whether its lowered or stays the same. And from experience I see no greater results when its ran over 600.

Also what time is your workout/training? I would shoot the Test Suspension before workout. Seems to make the most of it that way since it kicks in so quick. Really gives great aggression and strength if scheduled in a such a way.

Food for thought

[Dukkit]

Also... 100mg-150mg a day of Mesterlone? (proviron )

Def not needed.

The compound isnt good for muscle gains. Its best used for its synergetic affect with other compounds, for its AI properties and to free up Free Test. But all the info Ive come across doesnt show any increased benefits over 50mg a day really.

Just think its overkill. Maybe 75mg a day tops.

[marcus300]

To much for a 4th cycle,
Your complicating things by designing it like you have,
The bridge isnt good, to high amount and to short,
Dosages to high and ran for to long,
No need for the frontload, if you require an anabolic environment from the start of the cycle prime before you start and this will open the growth window straight away,
You need to calm down your approach, you dont have to be so aggressive.

[BJJ]

Its defo a big cycle

Well at least IMO it is

I will be watching this one, im sur 3.25 grams of gear a week will make u grow just a bit

U will have no blood in ur system, u will just be running on oil from the gear LOL

What are ur current stats

37 yo
6'1 feet
220 lbs
10% bf

[Dukkit]

What is your reasoning for taking T4?

[BJJ]

I dont see the point of lowering the EQ dose during the bridge. It takes so long to reach stable levels and to kick in that I would just keep it at 600-800 the entire time. Its a weak compound so it wont make much of a difference during the bridge whether its lowered or stays the same. And from experience I see no greater results when its ran over 600.

Also what time is your workout/training? I would shoot the Test Suspension before workout. Seems to make the most of it that way since it kicks in so quick. Really gives great aggression and strength if scheduled in a such a way.

Food for thought

Good food lol, I was thinking the same for EQ, after having reviewed what I wrote.
Regarding test susp, I like to shoot it before my leg workouts and before my bjj sessions, so 3 times a week.

Also... 100mg-150mg a day of Mesterlone? (proviron )

Def not needed.

The compound isnt good for muscle gains. Its best used for its synergetic affect with other compounds, for its AI properties and to free up Free Test. But all the info Ive come across doesnt show any increased benefits over 50mg a day really.

Just think its overkill. Maybe 75mg a day tops.

In my experience mesterolone works @ 100 mg ed but I also noticed a little improvement @ 150 mg ed. I also went up to 200 mg ed but the only thing was a crazy libido and the possibility to have sex more than twice.
In any case, I see your point.

[BJJ]

Somatropin is known to lower the TSH values, in my case I have seen this happen with BW on hand; this is the reason for it.

[Dukkit]

Somatropin is known to lower the TSH values, in my case I have seen this happen with BW on hand; this is the reason for it.

I missed the Somatropin. Gotcha!

[BJJ]

To much for a 4th cycle, Respectable opinion
Your complicating things by designing it like you have, You know my brain is quite complicated lol
The bridge isnt good, to high amount and to short, I can work on that but the length I think to be correct, 4 weeks
Dosages to high and ran for to long, I can work on that too
No need for the frontload, if you require an anabolic environment from the start of the cycle prime before you start and this will open the growth window straight away, You say to prime and that is what that frontload is about, no?
You need to calm down your approach, you dont have to be so aggressive.

Thank you for your words, always taken into account.

[CMB]

double...

[CMB]

I agree w/marcus

And second, why are you using twelve compounds? Too much man... Not to mention its 20 weeks long. I would re-think this cycle. That is a cycle some professional BB would use or a professional athlete.

[Necrosaro]

Again I tell you this is way too many compounds you are using and also gives the appearance that using more gets you more to new and intermediate users on this forum. Also if I remember as well you just got off of a cycle not that long ago. Even though people are telling you that you are using too much and still going through it gives those same users the idea that it is ok to ignore the highly experienced users on here as well!!!

[fig]

Thank you for your words, always taken into account.

The Prime explained before cycling

[fig]

wow that's a shit load of juice...unless you a professional athlete or pro bb i think your over doing it by a long shot

I agree w/marcus

And second, why are you using twelve compounds? Too much man... Not to mention its 20 weeks long. I would re-think this cycle. That is a cycle some professional BB would use or a professional athlete.

I believe he is a pro athlete

[BJJ]

Again I tell you this is way too many compounds you are using and also gives the appearance that using more gets you more to new and intermediate users on this forum. Also if I remember as well you just got off of a cycle not that long ago. Even though people are telling you that you are using too much and still going through it gives those same users the idea that it is ok to ignore the highly experienced users on here as well!!!

Do not play with me.
I am not ignoring advices otherwise I never would have started a thread asking for suggestions.
Also, I already lowered the doses of test prop and eq and regarding new users, I wrote the link of my previous 3 cycles not to confuse anyone, lol.

Regarding my previous cycle which was over in December 2010, I am just setting up the new one and I do not plan to commence it right away.

[BJJ]

I agree w/marcus

And second, why are you using twelve compounds? Too much man... Not to mention its 20 weeks long. I would re-think this cycle. That is a cycle some professional BB would use or a professional athlete.

I see the reason why you agree with marcus but all the compounds mentioned, except for HMG, were already used before.

[Far from massive]

Regarding BJJ's cycle and its affect on begginers and intermediates. I for one enjoyed reading BJJ's last cycle log, it contained a myriad of information in offered an insight into the complexities of running a long multi-compound cycle. Does that mean I will try to use a simalar one myself to convert myself into a BJJ fighter LOL? No no more likely than if I would attempt a risky escape from an armbar after watching a BJJ match. The point is that some will always make poor decisions based on emulation with disregard to common sense. For the rest of us to be penalized for this would be shame as these threads have a lot to offer to anyone who is willing to take the time to read the great detail and information contained.

Just my 2 cents,

FFM

[Far from massive]

Double post

[BJJ]

Regarding BJJ's cycle and its affect on begginers and intermediates. I for one enjoyed reading BJJ's last cycle log, it contained a myriad of information in offered an insight into the complexities of running a long multi-compound cycle. Does that mean I will try to use a simalar one myself to convert myself into a BJJ fighter LOL? No no more likely than if I would attempt a risky escape from an armbar after watching a BJJ match. The point is that some will always make poor decisions based on emulation with disregard to common sense. For the rest of us to be penalized for this would be shame as these threads have a lot to offer to anyone who is willing to take the time to read the great detail and information contained.

Just my 2 cents,

FFM

Exactly!

[Necrosaro]

We are clearly missing the point here with my post. You went from Mesterolone, Clenbuterol cycle to a rHGH, TEST P, EQ, OXANDROLONE, MESTEROLONE cycle then a huge jump to rHGH, rHuEPO, TEST SP, TEST P, DBOL , NPP, EQ, DP, PROVIRON , and now wanting to go even higher. What happened to just a test cycle of 500mgs, then a Kickstart of some sort&Test 500mgs cycle, then a jump in test after that with maybe just one more compound? With all the compunds you are using you will evenually need more and more to the point you will never gain anything unless you are on a cycle. This unfortually reminds me of a addiction you are developing! Sure there are users who enjoy your logs but really in all honesty this is too much. All I am saying is done do it!

[Duckhombre]

I am very curious how the GH frontload works out for you, I am considering 10-15 ius 3 days a week. In my experience GH has a delayed effect, and couple of studies show it has no effect on LBM or strength some 42 days after starting, something to consider. With Sust, you've got 40% deconate, test levels are going to be a bit goofy for a little bit. I would not try it just to try it, I think solid reasoning needs to the base of your decisions.

I don't mean to be rude, but if this is your fourth cycle, you are still a 'new user.' No other way to call it. But you seem well informed, and these are exciting.

Just to set the table for anyone reading this: This is allot of gear, this will cause cardiovascular stress, and likely shorten the users lifespan.

[Duckhombre]

After reading more into past logs, I cannot understand two things:
Why are you not growing more?
Where does lead in ten years? Four years even?

[BJJ]

We are clearly missing the point here with my post. You went from Mesterolone, Clenbuterol cycle to a rHGH, TEST P, EQ, OXANDROLONE, MESTEROLONE cycle then a huge jump to rHGH, rHuEPO, TEST SP, TEST P, DBOL, NPP, EQ, DP, PROVIRON, and now wanting to go even higher. What happened to just a test cycle of 500mgs, then a Kickstart of some sort&Test 500mgs cycle, then a jump in test after that with maybe just one more compound? With all the compunds you are using you will evenually need more and more to the point you will never gain anything unless you are on a cycle. This unfortually reminds me of a addiction you are developing! Sure there are users who enjoy your logs but really in all honesty this is too much. All I am saying is done do it!

Obviously, you did not read my threads at all, otherwise you would know the planned 4th cycle has less compounds.
I am not going higher but the opposite since I got rid of several drugs like NPP, DBOL and rHuEPO and kept what I believe is important for my target with minimal risks.
Regarding the length, there is a VET in this forum who started a thread about it. Perhaps you missed it.

Also, numbers and results should be taken into account and not words. Basically, science vs religion, lol.
Maybe you did not have the chance to see the results I had from my previous cycles:
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...es-%28DEXAs%29

In any case, I am not developing any addiction but you are talking nonsense.

[BJJ]

I am very curious how the GH frontload works out for you, I am considering 10-15 ius 3 days a week. In my experience GH has a delayed effect, and couple of studies show it has no effect on LBM or strength some 42 days after starting, something to consider. With Sust, you've got 40% deconate, test levels are going to be a bit goofy for a little bit. I would not try it just to try it, I think solid reasoning needs to the base of your decisions.

I don't mean to be rude, but if this is your fourth cycle, you are still a 'new user.' No other way to call it. But you seem well informed, and these are exciting.

Just to set the table for anyone reading this: This is allot of gear, this will cause cardiovascular stress, and likely shorten the users lifespan.

Cardiovascular stress commences with any AAS usage, lol.

[Dukkit]

Im still on the fence with you BJJ. lol

I understand your concepts. I like your cycles. I love how in depth you get with the logs. I know you are a highly competitive athlete and train hard in all you do.

But I have to compare this to something... so easiest is... me.

Youre on your 4th cycle. Ive done maybe 6 tops. And I havent used 1/3 the amount of compounds you use/have used. Nor have I used as high of dosages. Or as long of cycle lengths. Yet... we have the same body (Basically. Im 6'3. Your a touch shorter. Im 230, your a touch lighter. And we have same bodyfat) So for all these compounds, dosages, and lengths... why are you not bigger or more ripped then I?

Cuz you are over doing it.

Im not hating on or disrespecting you. We've both been on here a long time. Im just giving you my honest thoughts.

I think you can reach your goals with less. Simple as that. This is bodybuilding... its a lifelong journey.
Slow and steady wins the race.

But as always, I will follow your logs and support you and your goals.

-dukkit

[BJJ]

After reading more into past logs, I cannot understand two things:
Why are you not growing more? I did not want to grow more in my previous cycle even if I could because I could not roll properly. I decided to wait one more cycle to reach 230 lbs and hold there.
Where does lead in ten years? Four years even?

I do not understand your last question.

[BJJ]

Im still on the fence with you BJJ. lol

I understand your concepts. I like your cycles. I love how in depth you get with the logs. I know you are a highly competitive athlete and train hard in all you do.

But I have to compare this to something... so easiest is... me.

Youre on your 4th cycle. Ive done maybe 6 tops. And I havent used 1/3 the amount of compounds you use/have used. Nor have I used as high of dosages. Or as long of cycle lengths. Yet... we have the same body (Basically. Im 6'3. Your a touch shorter. Im 230, your a touch lighter. And we have same bodyfat) So for all these compounds, dosages, and lengths... why are you not bigger or more ripped then I?

Cuz you are over doing it.

Im not hating on or disrespecting you. We've both been on here a long time. Im just giving you my honest thoughts.

I think you can reach your goals with less. Simple as that. This is bodybuilding... its a lifelong journey.
Slow and steady wins the race.

But as always, I will follow your logs and support you and your goals.

-dukkit

I like the way you expressed your thoughts.

To answer your question, simply because I do not want to.
I could have gotten bigger but I rewrote my diet not to let that happen. The reason? I practise Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and after a certain weight I cannot move anymore, I cannot raise my hip!

I consider myself an athlete, not a body builder and what I can perform on the rings or on the bar cannot be accomplished by a BB; and I want that to continue to happen, I want to have that ability.

Hope you understand my reasons now.

[marcus300]

I like the way you expressed your thoughts.

To answer your question, simply because I do not want to.
I could have gotten bigger but I rewrote my diet not to let that happen. The reason? I practise Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and after a certain weight I cannot move anymore, I cannot raise my hip!

I consider myself an athlete, not a body builder and what I can perform on the rings or on the bar cannot be accomplished by a BB; and I want that to continue to happen, I want to have that ability.Hope you understand my reasons now.

You need to listen to yourself here bjj, if your not a bodybuilder and you dont want the size us bodybuilders are trying to achieve you want to stop running serious cycles what most advanced bodybuilder would run, you seriously dont need to run something for so long at such a high dose and be shut down for so long for the goals you want to achieve,

[Duckhombre]

First, of coarse cardiovascular issues are going to arise with any use of androgens, but there is significant variance in the degree to which this can occur.

Second, I mean that in 4-10 years where your steroid use go? To what end. You are already near the top of the scale of drug use.

I used to be the big cycle thing, it works, it feels good, it allows you do more of what you like to do, and lest resting. I took about 18 months off due to injury, came back, gained 22lbs of LBM in 8 months, then strarted planning for my 'first' cycle. Was thinking 1g test, some (400)npp then (600)tren , with 75drol and 40bol to start. Some old timers talked to me into starting low, "just try it," they said, with less than 600mg test 200mg tren, and 20-60mg d-bol, I'm gaining almost a pound a day, in fact I've averaged o.41 kilos a day to be exact. I couldn't possibly grow any faster I'm sure. The point is, only do what you have to take, to get what you need, anymore is a waste, of your life, as well as drugs.

[BJJ]

You need to listen to yourself here bjj, if your not a bodybuilder and you dont want the size us bodybuilders are trying to achieve you want to stop running serious cycles what most advanced bodybuilder would run, you seriously dont need to run something for so long at such a high dose and be shut down for so long for the goals you want to achieve,

There is a reason for this cycle and it is the same reason why I ran rHuEPO in my third one, FIGHTS and related $$$.

[BJJ]

First, of coarse cardiovascular issues are going to arise with any use of androgens, but there is significant variance in the degree to which this can occur.

Second, I mean that in 4-10 years where your steroid use go? To what end. You are already near the top of the scale of drug use. I do not plan to use AAS in the future, maybe some test prop sometimes in the future but nothing more than that. I want to use mostly somatropin.

I used to be the big cycle thing, it works, it feels good, it allows you do more of what you like to do, and lest resting. I took about 18 months off due to injury, came back, gained 22lbs of LBM in 8 months, then strarted planning for my 'first' cycle. Was thinking 1g test, some (400)npp then (600)tren , with 75drol and 40bol to start. Some old timers talked to me into starting low, "just try it," they said, with less than 600mg test 200mg tren, and 20-60mg d-bol, I'm gaining almost a pound a day, in fact I've averaged o.41 kilos a day to be exact. I couldn't possibly grow any faster I'm sure. The point is, only do what you have to take, to get what you need, anymore is a waste, of your life, as well as drugs.

I took that into account since the beginning.

[number twelve]

it is good to see a thread where there is actually constructive conversation taking place.

[jamix2010]

I think I read somewhere above that you dropped the Epo. Does this mean it didn't work? Did your RBC's not go up?