My First Cycle

**dmk327** · 01-18-2011, 08:17 PM

So I will be starting my first cycle within a week or so and am psyched yet a little weary at the same time. I will be doing a cycle of test and tren and not really sure what doses but my source knows. How bad will my natural test fall at the end of the cycle? I will be using nolvadex for pct. I have a somewhat moderate level of experience in researching AAS, other than that my only similar experience came in 2003 when I was in hs and took Andro which was legal back then. I do also worry about roid rage as I am usually easy to set off with my temper normally, would this be a problem and is there any way to avoid such effects?

**dec11** · 01-18-2011, 08:27 PM

oh dear, no. do not eevn attempt it. you clearly have no idea what you are doing and your source is a muppet for suggesting you do tren .

what age are you and what are your stats?

**dmk327** · 01-18-2011, 08:33 PM

why exactly is the issue with me doing it? I am 25, 6'0", 190 lbs 10-11% bf, lifting for years and just sick of getting nowhere and want some gains already.

**ufc8581** · 01-18-2011, 08:51 PM

whats ur diet like bc i bet that has alot to do with everything .. try posting ur diet in diet section and get help there thats the first step i think ... AAS isnt a miracle drug even adding it to ur regimen now if ur diet is perfect or almost perfect it could hurt u more than help you IMHO

**dmk327** · 01-18-2011, 09:08 PM

I am on a cutting diet with intentions of trying to add bits of lean mass. I consume about 1800-2100 calories a day right now. About 200-250 grams of protein throughout the day, less than 120 grams of carbs a day and usually very low GI carbs except post workout for the IGF effect. I try to get adequate amounts of good fat throughout the day and supplement with 3500 mg tribulus and 10 grams of arginine and take a supplemental anti-aromotase before my workouts to prevent any aromatization. I am decently getting to the cut up look I wanted but my arms got alot smaller in the process. I feel running this test/tren bulk cycle with a clean bulking diet with 350 grams protein a day and 3500-4000 calories would easily put a good lean 15 lbs of muscle on me from what I've been told.

**ufc8581** · 01-18-2011, 09:17 PM

ok ur LBM is 172lbs so you need 2580 cals to maintain LBM .. which the 2100 would be ok for a cutting cycle with min cardio bc ur already below ur maintence cal .. and ur carb intake should be a lil higher IMO ... With this being a first cycle i would stick to jus the test bc you will se great gains from that alone .. and running two things at once if u start to develop side you wont know which one is giving them to you .. and tren is definetly not for a first cycle IMO and everyone here will agree... stick to the test alone and ull be g2g i think

**Tigershark** · 01-18-2011, 10:51 PM

You need to do more research. I can't even count the amount of posts on here of somebody saying they "have a buddy" who knows what they are talking about. Then a month later they are posting about how they messed up.

And why are you using tren on a first cycle when you don't even know how your body will take the test. Tren can be pretty harsh on some people and without already knowing how your body will be affected what you are planning is a bad idea in my opinion.

**Blacksrt42004** · 01-19-2011, 08:33 AM

I say do a little more research first and stick with a Test only cycle for your first one.

If you want to get the gear so you don't lose your source, fine. But don't start using it until you do some more reading.

**dmk327** · 01-19-2011, 10:40 AM

I am not trying to sound cocky or overconfident when I say this but I have done my research. I have been studying and researching everything about AAS since 2009 and have a good understanding of how different hormones work and are advantageous in our bodies. My dosing will be .75 cc tren and .25 cc test every day which would allow me to do an extra .25cc of test at the beginning of each week to be getting around 500mg of test a week. As far as diet, I have been cutting for a long time so this being, in most opinions, a bulking cycle I am going to ****ing eat like theres no tomorrow and get as much of my keys macros as I need. I even have scenarios played out in my head for maybe getting back to the cutting diet towards the end of the cycle when gains start to dwindle anyways.

**eyepoker** · 01-19-2011, 12:15 PM

Theres a lot good advice on this thread.

Forget about the tren for a first cycle. You dont know how your body will respond to aas and tren could screw you up for life.

**Dukkit** · 01-19-2011, 12:24 PM

I am going to agree with the above posters....

do not run the tren .

If you are hell bent on cycling.... then just run Test.

And you state in a reply that you take a "Anti-aromatase" before workouts to prevent any aromatization??
Do you even know what that means? .
What sort of Anti are you taking? Over the counter?
Why would there be any aromatization from a workout?
Only way anything can aromatize is if there is an over abundance of estrogen due to compounds/steroids or normal hormonal imbalances.

So there is no need for an anti.

You may think you know enough to cycle now.

But you clearly do not.

We are not saying these things to degrade you or make fun of you..

We say these things because we are looking out for you. We know the results of poor cycles and have been in this game for years.

Post up your diet and I guarantee that I or others can tweak it 100% better for you to gain more naturally first.

**dmk327** · 01-19-2011, 12:46 PM

Yes I know what it means. I take Arimatest to basically allow greater free natural t levels run bc I do take trib right now. What is so bad about tren that everyone is dead set against it. Its five times more active than test and allows for great gains.

**Dukkit** · 01-19-2011, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by dmk327

Yes I know what it means. I take Arimatest to basically allow greater free natural t levels run bc I do take trib right now. What is so bad about tren that everyone is dead set against it. Its five times more active than test and allows for great gains.

I love how you are just repeating things from what you have read.

When all of us who have USED tren are saying no.

So who would you listen to? hmmm?

Tren IS strong. Very good. But it also has alot of sides. That are not fun.
But that is not the issue.
The issue is... YOU DO NOT NEED TREN.... YET.

Test with correct diet and training will do wonders.

**Dukkit** · 01-19-2011, 12:52 PM

Also... you say you are taking this Anti in order to have more free test.

Sorry to tell you but anything over the counter that you can buy isnt going to make that much of a difference.

Also... an anti wont give you more free test. It will lower or block estrogen.

But guess what.... you NEED some estrogen for muscle growth.

So in all honesty... you are probably hindering your own gains.

Bummer dude

**dmk327** · 01-19-2011, 12:53 PM

So can I still do test every day at .25 cc and maybe add the tren later...???

**Dukkit** · 01-19-2011, 12:55 PM

Tren should be added in maybe your 4th cycle

So many other compounds out there that are easier and safer and can give you just as good of gains

**dmk327** · 01-19-2011, 01:03 PM

alright thanks man...

**RaZr** · 01-19-2011, 01:05 PM

I'm so glad I found this site

**cerealkiller326** · 01-19-2011, 01:20 PM

Originally Posted by dmk327

alright thanks man...

Don't be bummed man, just search a bit more and learn from it. Mean while get your diet in check, diet is more important that the stuff you inject. Post it in the diet section bro. Your getting good advices from all above, thank them you didn't just hop into the cycle your buddy suggested.

**dec11** · 01-19-2011, 03:18 PM

Originally Posted by dmk327

Yes I know what it means. I take Arimatest to basically allow greater free natural t levels run bc I do take trib right now. What is so bad about tren that everyone is dead set against it. Its five times more active than test and allows for great gains.

dont waste your time and money on these. if you want a good natural test support produce, buy some zma

**dmk327** · 01-19-2011, 04:11 PM

what is your personal experience with zma?

**pstacks** · 01-22-2011, 12:20 AM

I've only been taking it for a couple months, but I definitely agree with dec. I've taken all kinds of different OTC "test boosters", and I like this the most. It seems like I get better quality sleep with it too. Not to mention that the ingredients/combination in ZMA has actually been shown to be effective, unlike most of the supp store products.

**ijbickerdike** · 01-22-2011, 01:51 AM

Read this for sides of Tren , you may find it interesting and will prob make your mind up for you.

Common Side effects
Out of all the injectable steroids available, trenbolone is the one that should be used with extreme caution and only after plenty of research into its side effects and common cycles have been carried out. Trenbolone side effects can be very bad to many users, so much so that they will not use it despite its very positive effects on the body and strength. Firstly, as trenbolone is so androgenic , all side effects that are seen with strong androgens can be expected (if prone) with trenbolone. If one is prone to male pattern baldness (MPB) than trenbolone will likely speed this up. Some users find acne on trenbolone worse than when on any other steroid . Certainly Trenbolone is not recommended for female users due to its strong androgenic properties and the common side effects that manifest themselves in females who use strong androgens.

Despite the fact that trenbolone cannot aromatise, due to the progesterone route it can cause things like gynecomastia , but this will only really happen in the presence of estrogen. This does happen though in many users, as trenbolone is usually stacked with a testosterone , which obviously can and will convert to estrogen. Gynecomastia from trenbolone can be quite bad many will find, however if you do not suffer from this than other estrogenic side effects should not be of worry, as trenbolone does not cause any water retention or similar, but in fact often gives a hardened look and feel to the muscles.

Trenbolone also seems to give many users poor sleep patterns and insomnia. In addition, it can cause severe sweating in many, both during the night time and also just from doing the smallest of activities such as walking up stairs, etc. It also can impair to a certain degree, cardiovascular function, which means that it is not ideal for use in those who regular partake in such sports or activity that require a decent level of cardiovascular fitness.

Trenbolone also increases blood pressure in many users, some to such a degree that they have to cease using it. Thus it is recommended that one who wishes to use trenbolone, invests in a blood pressure monitor so they can regularly measure their blood pressure and keep an eye on it throughout the cycle.

Many people claim that trenbolone has a negative effect on the kidneys. There are many of these claims certainly across the Internet since its use has become more widespread. However, there is no real evidence for these claims, and certainly I have seen many long-term users of trenbolone have kidney function tests that are well within the normal range. Perhaps the reason for this theory is the fact that when using trenbolone, many find that their urine can become a much darker more orange-brown colour. However, this is due to the fact that trenbolone undergoes very little modification or breakdown and is excreted as a rust-coloured oxidised form in the urine. In addition to this, any damage to kidney may not even be directly due to the trenbolone, but more to do with the increased sweating and water loss from excessive body heat whilst on trenbolone, without the sufficient addition of water intake. Thus it is recommended if running trenbolone to keep the water intake high.

As trenbolone is such a strong steroid, it is very harsh on the HTPA axis and will shut down the body's natural testosterone production very easily and, for many, very harshly. It is comparable to 'deca dick' that people can experience with deca, and longer cycles may need to include the use of HCG to restore one's own natural production of testosterone. Recovery from cycles containing trenbolone is not easy, and requires a very well thought out and stringent PCT routine and diet.

It has also been suggested through research that trenbolone actually (although aiding slightly in fat loss) reduces endogenous T3 levels. Thus some advocate the use of 25mcg T3 throughout a trenbolone cycle. This writer does not personally think that this is necessary; however it is something that users may wish to consider when using trenbolone, especially if their natural T3 production is on the lower side of the normal range. It is a very good idea to get blood work done both before and after any cycle including trenbolone.

Tren cough
The so called 'tren cough' or 'Fina cough' is well known amongst many tren users. Some users seem to get the cough following every injection; others never or extremely rarely will get the cough. Usually it is manifested upon injection, with a tightness in the chest, and a metallic taste in the back of the mouth, followed by an uncontrollable violent cough which can be quite frightening, as anyone who has experienced it will tell you, whether it's for the first time or not. There have been some very elaborate theories about the reasons for getting the cough from trenbolone, some of which have had mechanisms involving molecules that only trenbolone affects resulting in bronchioconstriction, etc. However, the fact remains that many users have also experienced the same cough from steroids such as equipoise and testosterone cypionate . In addition, these mechanisms that are proposed are highly unlikely to occur immediately upon injection, as that is too fast a timescale for the proposed mechanism. Thus it must be the result of something entering the blood stream and traveling to the lungs for the cough to be manifested that quickly.

This leads us onto the next theory suggested by many which is that trenbolone is produced by many UGLs, and as such is made with higher percentages of Benzyl Alcohol (BA) than pharma grade products are, and it is the alcohol that is causing the reaction. The only problem with this theory is that trenbolone is made by most UGLs with the same BA percentages as things such as testosterone propionate , and nandrolone decanoate. If it was purely the BA concentration, than we would expect to see the cough with these other products as well, which we do not. Thus, as we have eliminated the oil, solvents and carriers, it leaves us with the Trenbolone product itself as the potential culprit.

One thing that you notice about trenbolone is that it is often a golden-brown / rust colour when in oil solution. If the hormone powder is refined to greater than 99.5% purity or so, then the colour of trenbolone in solution actually gives a very light golden colour, much like other testosterone products; however, refining the hormone to this level of purity is extremely difficult. This is why there is colour variation from batch to batch with different underground labs; something as small as 0.1% purity can affect the colour of the final product.

As mentioned above when discussing kidney effects of trenbolone, the oxidised trenbolone is a rust colour – much like the colour seen of trenbolone in oil solution. What you also notice with steroids such as Equipoise and to a lesser degree, testosterone cypionate , is that these steroids too are hard to very highly refine and often a browny-rust colour, more so than products such as testosterone propionate , etc. It is very likely then that these oxidised particles get into the blood stream upon injection and this causes some sort of anaphylactic (allergic) reaction in the lungs as the particles react with the alveoli, perhaps. This seems to be confirmed by the fact that the darker the trenbolone is the more likely one is to get a cough (personal and general experience). The best way to try and avoid this is to firstly inject very slowly and not move the needle around after aspirating, and also mixing the trenbolone with another product such as test prop.

**StillBoostion** · 01-22-2011, 02:51 AM

Great info on the Tren ! Wish I would have read this before I started my cycle. This isnt what I read anywhere before.

I changed my diet and in 2 months I gain 14lbs and only went up 1% in body fat. You gotta eat bro to gain. if you just did your diet you are taking about you would see gains just from doubling your cals. If you listen to the pros on here you'ld gain even more.

**jfletcher** · 01-22-2011, 03:58 AM

Tren on your first cycle is a bit keen.... I'd personally drop the tren and just run your test which ever one you have available, sit at about 500mgs for 10-12 weeks and see how you go with that... I'd defiantly advise against the tren first time around!!

**bjohnson1968** · 01-22-2011, 06:38 AM

Originally Posted by dmk327

So can I still do test every day at .25 cc and maybe add the tren later...???

First you don't measure your doses in cc its mgs how do we know the concentration of your gear
You stated earlier .25cc a day with an additional .25 cc to equal 500mgs a week this sounds like your wanting to do test e or c
you do not have to injected test e or c everyday 2 shoots a week every 3.5 days is fine
I think you need a lot more research bro IMHO

**love the gear** · 01-22-2011, 06:55 AM

I think your source should just be a source! do not take his advice, tren is not for first cycles at all. you really need to take all the advice from the guy's on here and research alot more, good luck though

**dmk327** · 01-22-2011, 07:53 AM

I realize that there is not a general agreement to shoot test every single day. However I was thinking beyond conventional wisdom in the sense of getting .25cc every day as opposed to to 1cc every 3-4 days would eventually build up to a point of maintaining higher overall levels within a few weeks. And I am well aware the a cc or what some call 1 mL is a measure of volume and the concentration is in mg/mL and I have the math somewhere around here and would more than happy to show my calculations. This was under the assumption I was going to run the test with the tren but I am not running the tren and have been scared away from it like the plague.

One question is about androgenic side effects. I'm 25 and do not grow thick facial hair and would like to keep it that way. Would test cause more facial hair in a male?