I haven't done juice before but

[BigTony]

I'm 18 m and will take juice but should I wait longer. I read that it will stunt your growth. i'm 6' I am looking at deca and sustanon 250. A good stack for size and mass. What do I do at the end with clomid and HCG ?
I was looking @ the stack in the beginner area it says 400cc of Deca and sustanon but my cosin really experienced said to use 200cc of deca
I know this is alot of questions but where else could I ask them
Will I get thinning hair caus the only reason I'm taking juce is for apperence and if i loose my hair then that would defeat the purpose! what do you think will happen with me doing 1 cycle of that stack i'm 99% sure i'm gonna do it anyways I'm just trying to get advice because i've rechearched alot i know what it says I'm not a pussy I just want to know what people w/ experience here think.

[BigTony]

ps this site kicks ass it is so damn thorough. and i'm glad to see that "cool" people can make a good site not dorks it has been the most helpful I found! It is great to see something this helpful on this subject.

[Billy Boy]

Yeah you should wait longer how long have you been training? What is your diet like? What are your current stats?

A "Beginners" cycle for mass using Deca and Sust is

Deca 400mg wk 1-8
Sust 250 500mg wk 1-8
Clomid 50g/100g/50g

I would strongly recommend that you train naturally for at least 2 years first and have a very good understanding of diet.Even with AS if your diet is poor you will not get the results you require.Diet is very important

Billy

[BigTony]

thanks billy is that you shit,
i've been training since 15 i once weighed 173 now nothing i broke my wrist and i'm just starting all over again 156 lb. I have a friend who is 16 and took D-bol tabs and blew up like shit I kinda know I should wait and get big on creatine but I'm so eager. I know all about how important diet is when i'm training I got nitro tech 2 grams per lb
i actually read the anabolic diet. So I know that you got to eat a shit load of stuff like protien and calories/ carbs.

[Billy Boy]

Hey Tony

If you are referring to the pic nope thats not me thats Dorian Yates previous Mr O and he,s from the UK

I personally would train hard and get back to your old weight as your body remembers that size and you will easily pack it back on.That way it will give you more time to research and learn about AAS and and really need to be 100% sure that what you are doing is RIGHT for you.

I have always trained naturally I,m 27 and 188 at 5,10" you think I have not been frustated at not growing? I,ve trained for 8 yrs on and off and have always been of small build and I am only now thinking of doing AS

I know you don,t want to read this but hold off gain your "old" weight and work from that.

Billy

[BigTony]

Billy shit

I should of known that's Dorian yates duh!

And You're right about both. I don't want to hear that and that would make me more confortable to get back to my old wieght and know like the back of my hand what i'm donig! i could really pass 200 i was 17 when I got 173 lb on creatine. ATP serum and protien shakes. All my friends take juice and cosin uncle their all big If anyone has any input about the above I would really like to hear it!

[BigTony]

I will probally take that stack. Before i'm 19 or 19 yrs

[Billy Boy]

I,m no one and it is only MO but taking AAS ain,t like having a beer or two and just b,c friends juice up don,t mean you have too.I have friends who have done them but I never felt that it was right for me at that time

If you are gonna do the stack - good luck with it but please do your research read about what you are going to use - be safe

Billy

[pureanger]

Everyone needs to listen to Billy very careful to many kids are to eager to start pushing the pin. The only thing I would add to his cycle would be
400 deca
500 test
and 600 of Equip. ( i really love eq)
If your family has inherent bladness then watch out for it because test speeds the process up if you have the genes to be bald just be careful if your worried about it. when im cycling and not taking deca i eat proscar like it going out of style.

[Mike]

Damn Pure - you LOVE EQ dont ya?

Alright bud - i like your sttitude you're very open minded - please listen to me when I tell you that starting now could be pretty harmful to you. Think bout it and wait a couple years - atleast as long as you can - start experimenting with your routine and diet and see if you can switch it up and play around with it till you cant grow anymore - then start. The only problem with AS too young is NOT stunting your growth contrary to popular belief. I started when I was 16, had a heart attack at 24 (am 28 now), have had severely high blood pressure since I was 16 that seems to be uncurable - medicated it is about 190/115, no meds it is resting at about 215/135, I have done extensive tests - had an MRA done, protein analysis, blood panel, urine tests...everything. Never came up with anything - it was steroid provoked hypertension - doc says if it doesn't come down 30 doesn't seem like an attainable age for me. Trust me - you gotta be safe brother - research lots and when you're ready to cycle - hit me up if you want to - I will set ya straight. Not trying to scare you just give you unbiased information so you can see ALL sides of the story.

[Mike]

BUMP

for capolars and others thinking bout starting - just thought ya'll should read up oin how steroids at an early age )or any age for that matter) can effect you beyond growth stunts

[pureanger]

Your body really hasnt stopped growing you should train natural for a little while longer. I would love to be your age and have a that natural test in my system.
By the way Mike I live for Eq LOL

[BigTony]

thanks alot guys I really want to take it but... ya'll makin me think!

[EXCESS]

I agree that you should wait for a bit. Work your ass off and eat properly until you're at least 20. Then just imagine how far you could get. GOOD LUCK BRO!

[Sicilian30]

Don't forget about the damage to the liver and all other things that juice does to you. Course most don't care and want to look good, but for what price. Train, diet, and take suppliments, make sure you body is getting what it needs. I would stay away from the Dbol pills, I have heard some bad things with them. If anything, once you do decide and are older I would definatley recommend injectables. Pills will hurt you more. By no means am I pushing and saying you should start, but if you decide take Mikes advice is it worth it?

[BigTony]

I know I should wait but I don't want to. I have so many friends who doo it now. And i don't want to get left behind. I'll wait two and a half months. If i gain as much that makes me happy mabey. Longer we'll see i'll keep u posted!

[Billy Boy]

Let,s put it really simple

Faster muscle growth now Vs ireversable side effects for the rest of your life?

I mean no dis-respect but fuck bro that is one hell of a choice to make did you read Mikes post thats scary and he,s offering you advice from exp

Fuck your friends and what they do what are you a sheep blindly following what they do if they shot some guy would you do the same as not to be left out? No you would,nt unless your a stupid MoFo and that you are not.

It is upto you and I think your making a mistake when you get a lot of guys here offering you serious advice and concerned about your health and welfare more so than you are I can,t help but wonder why are you really on this board?

Billy

[BigTony]

Well you can wonder. I was taking in advice my cosin takes them my uncle takes them pro-football players take them 3 million N usa takes them most are fine there many websites out there. And you said you have never taken them. Consider the source!

[pureanger]

Your probly to young to start right now if your worried about stunting growth your not ready. If your still want to try AS go with
500 mg per week of sust
400 mg per week of deca
either add an oral like Dbal 40mg per day or go with 600 mg per week of Eq

[Billy Boy]

I considered the sauce a long time a go and made an intelligant decision based upon much research that it was the wrong thing for me to do.I had friends who were doing it but that method of improvement was not for me.I wanted to train and know what I was doing was from fucking hard work and a good diet and if I,m honest I was not into BB in a huge way.

I have considered AAS and it is now right for me to do this but only after much research time and the patience and integrity to learn about something that could potentially harm me as well as help me.

3 million users and most of them are fine hmmmm do you know that as fact?

I don,t want to get in a pissing match with you just really wish you would listen to the advice being offered.

I wish you all the best and I hope that you do not regret doing your cycle later in life

Billy

[pureanger]

Billy Boy is right again people need to relize that this will effect you for the rest of your life and the desicions you make now will play a major role how you grow older. There are more important things than going to the beach and looking big.

[peaker]

I agree with billy, i've been training a few years on and off, i would love to be big, who doesn't? Being 20 i know that there is plenty time for me, i'm 5'10" ~200lb and i know i can put heaps of size on, but what's the point doing them so young man. Not trying to knock you or anything but you are still young like myself.
Fuck your friends if they are getting bigger quicker than you, doesn't mean that they wont regret it when they are older and it might catch up to them.

Take advise from some of the more experienced guys on the board, same have taken the juice some haven't, all for different reasons but, bro, don't do it because your friends are.

No point in looking big at the risk of your health.
(Not knocking any boys on the shit). I have not taken any supplements in my time, except hitting the protein powders and creatine in the past few months.

But wait it out and see what nature does for you first

Everyone always wants to be bigger and better than what they are at the moment, that's what makes us BB's tick

Peaker

[Mike]

careful there......3mil users and they are fine......


quote sources if you are gonna cite statistics - otherwise dont make them up - cause that isnt true and I dont want some 16 year old reading this thinking - well hell if half of the country is juicing and not affected - so can I - BS

ALL of us sit here and talk about using AS. I use them - plain and simple. But I challenge any vet here to honestly say there is no health risk with them. Part of the game is minimizing that risk - people that believe there is NO risk are just plain ignorant and are lying to themselves.

(BTW - pro football players aren't 18 years old.....none that I know of anyway)

[pureanger]

Mike I agree buit there are health risk in everything you do smoking drinking hell the preservatives in the food you eat all or none of which will kil everyone here. I dont smoke, drink go out party anything i go to the gym and i do AS noone can say what effect tahts going to have good bad or indifferent. it all depends on a role of the dice. Look at Kieth Richards im suprised hes able to talk or walk he did so much drugs its all body makeup. I hope that people relize the bad effects of AS and make an educated guess on what to do.

[Mike]

There's n way I would disagree with that bro - there are absolutely risks - and everyone reacts differently - there are people who will get gyno at the drop of a hat then people who will never.....same with other health issues - I am not saying that using AS is a death sentence - just said that there is a RISK there and to deny it is silly - to say that there are 3 million steroid users and they're all fine...thats absurd...

[Sicilian30]

I got a question for you Mike, (maybe I need to put up a post for this), but if you have mild Gyno, which we know Gyno is fatty tissue behind the skin of the chest, would AS get rid of this, the fat I mean? I know the greatest risk is after AS, cause you body is not producing Test anymore, I guess my question, is for someone who has light gyno, would taking AS, that build muscle, it should make it go away am I correct? Just when you come off the "gear" is when it is dangerous? Am I wrong about this?

[Fast Results]

Dont do it!!

But I know how its like to not listen to shit and go about it anyway.
do a 10-12 wk cycle something like this

1-8 wks 400 mg deca a week

1-7 wks 500 mg sus a week

wk 6 & 7 3500 iu's HCG a week, total of 7000 iu's

wk 5-10 50 mg winny everyday

On the 10th day after your last shot or intake of AS start clomid for 3 wks 100mg/50mg/100mg that will be 7/7/7.
Now if you just have this itchy sensation on your nipples rub them with sand paper so you dont have to bother with them, actually that'll probaly work but instead keep Nolvadex on hand to get rid of it (bitch tit) (gyno)

dont forget to use a liver d-tox like milk-thisle or Tyler liver d-etox which I think works the best
Dont eat everything thats not nailed down, be smart and watch your diet ... then again your diet shouldnt be that important since you probaly dont even have a license to drive ... just kidding. Just a little note that your at a point in your life when your body is producing more test then ever and chances are that you might have a couple of inches to go in height. you might not want to risk it. I hope you listen to what the vets on the board are telling you ... Good Luck

Fast R

[Nathan]

I think you should wait a few more years. You'll be glad you did. Also, Mike I'm very sorry to hear about your bad luck. I've heard stories like this before about starting while too young, but do you know what makes the difference at such a young age? I'm still not really clear on why this is and was hoping for some more insight.

[Mike]

Nathan - I have actually been researching this to some extent for a couple years - I KNOW for a fact that chronic and seemingly uncureable hypertension is created in youth by AS usage - I am NOT saying all youth that use juice will get it - not at all - but what I am saying is that had i started a few years later - about 3-5 years or so I seriously do not believe I would have ever had the same problems with bp - at least not to the severity that I do now - I will keep you posted if interested in what I find about the links to age and steroid uses effect on the body at that time

[Billy Boy]

Hey Mike please keep us posted i would like to learn more about the effects on youngsters and as Nathan said bad luck to hear what you said bro is there really no way of reducing your B/P?

And as for the other comments AS do pose a threat to your health but that is why we research and find out what we can do to reduce those effects and I,ve said it before everybody is different and have different reactions.
Just hope everyone "plays" safe using AS

Billy

[Mike]

No worries Billy - it's not as big of a deal as it probably sounds - as for if there is something I can do to lower the BP - not yet - but yes I really think there is - I am looking into some things currently with the endocrine system, adrenal glands etc etc - I am not out of options - and to be perfectly honest I think its pretty damn interesting LOL when my docs get all worried I laugh and get excited - I go to the university and start researching more! Anyway, yes I plan to actually put something together one of these days as I think whatever I discover out of this will be very useful for newbies and youth looking to juice up

[shawnwiz]

check out the post i put out about propecia. Onebody has replied yet but i think that if your worried about hair loss propecia could help while your juicing. Lets see what replies we get from some of the knowledagable people on this board.

shawnwiz

[Mike]

Originally posted by sk*
no offense but many of you sound like hypocrites

would you all stop taking anabolics if i was to find a case of an adult steroid use that led to death? ofcourse not, cause most of you know there are many cases out there

if one does his research meaning he is well aware of the possible side effects and the positives of anabolics then by all means he/she is ready

mike, it's unfortunate that you had a heart attack, but what was your cycle like? did you have heart problems before? did you take other medications? there are so many questions to be answered before restricting steroid use to those above 21
who came up with 21 anyways? there is no strict number that defines weather you are ready or not, it's your knowledge of it that should enable you to use it

there is no doubt that high school kids taking dbol for immidiete bulk is childish and shows adolescence (sp?) but if you have done the research ... then what's left?

Oh shit.......ok we're going to have to break this down a bit.....first off....where the hell did this post come from?! This was atleast 3 months old! LOL

SK - "if one does his research meaning he is well aware of the possible side effects and the positives of anabolics then by all means he/she is ready"

Hmmm....well in a way you are right. If one understands the bad and good about AS and is willing to accept any and all consequences and responsibilities then yup - he's ready. No matter what age. BUT the reason we sit here and write this kinda stuff for younger people trying to juice is because they DONT understand all the consequences. Most people at 16 think that steroids do two things -

1. You stop growing.
2. You get really big and laid.

And that's all there is too it. I can't believe this - the growth factor was the LEAST of my concerns and still is for anyone wanting to juice young - I never even bring it up - there are much worse potential consequences involved.

SK - "mike, it's unfortunate that you had a heart attack, but what was your cycle like? did you have heart problems before? did you take other medications? there are so many questions to be answered before restricting steroid use to those above 21
who came up with 21 anyways? there is no strict number that defines weather you are ready or not, it's your knowledge of it that should enable you to use it"

My cycle? By 24 I had had over a dozen pretty good cycles. Heart problems before steroids or heart problems before the attack? Before the attack yes - before steroids - No. And yes I took meds - I was on beta blovkers and other various hypertensives at the time.

Who came up with the number 21? I have no idea - you tell me. It certainly wasn't me....??? Don't know what you are talking about.

I like the last part best - "there is no strict age that define whether you are ready or not, it's your knowledge of it that should enable you to use it"

Well I am not going to pussy foot around that I am just gonna tell ya that's bullshit. Absurd even. You can have all the knowledge in the world, but if you're still an oily faced pimpled kid with a scratchy voice and a constantly changing hormonal status and less than completely developed internally and externally, physiologically and psychologically - You are NOT ready.

Tell ya what - for anyone that thinks that they are ready for steroids at a young age (let's HYPOTHETICALLY pretend that age would be anything under 20) then here are a couple questions for you.

What are the short and long term effects of introducing excessive amounts of synthetic hormones into a pubescent body on the HPTA and the adrenal system?

What are the long term effects of using hormonal supplements on the negative feedback system?

If you can answer these correctly and tell me what the effects would be in detail and back it up with case studies then by all means you're ready for steroids. In fact - I will even spend as much time as it takes helping you draft the cycle of your dreams for you.

I am taking this post very seriously so know that from this point on anything you state in this thread I will disect and analyze until I have picked every valid piece of information from it and THEN I will construct my rebuttle for that valid piece of insight based on my own credible knowledge. So if you are going to make any statements just be prepared to back them up....

[Mallet]

bro I think you should wait until you hit your twenties.
That's 2 years of training, you could easily get your body weight
up to 200lbs by then.

Everybody wants a quick fix! but you have to live with that body for the rest of your life.

But if you decide to go ahead with it anyways, I don't think you
need to do testo right away. save some playing room for later.
your body would probably respond quite well to Deca with either
d-bol or primo, or winnie.

Just so you know! I trained NATURALLY until I was 26 years old

Then my first stack was d-bol 30mgs a day and 300mgs of Primo
a week, I'm glad I saved the testo until later.

By the way at 26 years old my Stats were 6'1" 235lbs at 10%
body fat. and benched 315 for a single

[Mallet]

No bro that was not directed at you.

I was responding to big Tony

Thanx for the compliment though!

Peace

[PTbyJason]

thanks EXCESS, might as well bump it

Originally posted 08-29-2001 02:46 AM