Help me sort out my 2nd cycle

[gbrice75]

What's up people. I'm toying with the idea of running another cycle. A little info:

Age: 35
Height: 5'11
Weight: 192lbs
BF%: 12% - 13%
Cycle History - 1 cycle, 12 weeks 500mg test e/week + dbol @ 30mg ED, weeks 1-4. Standard PCT Clomid 100/50/50/50, Nolva 40/20/20/20.

Here's the deal. IF I decide to run another cycle (and if I get the blessing from all of your collective feedback), I want it over and done with before the summer hits. I am not gonna want to be eating and feeling big and bloated throughout the hot months, and I know from experience that it's a bad idea to cut during and right after PCT. SO, I am looking at running something shorter this time. Ideally, i'd start at the beginning of March and be finished with the cycle by the end of April, so roughly 8 weeks is as long as i wanna go. That leaves May for PCT, and then the summer is JUST beginning and i'll have the time to cut a bit later in June and going into July (if even necessary). Enanthate is obviously out. Here is my proposed cycle - again this is a 'rough draft':

Weeks 1-8 - Test Prop, 100-150mg EOD
Weeks 1-8 - NPP, 100-150mg EOD
Weeks 1-4 - Dbol , 40mg ED (not sure about this yet)
Adex on hand

PCT - I can obviously run the same standard PCT I ran in my first cycle, but it might be a little weak. Open to further suggestions.

I'd appreciate your opinions on this cycle. I have no experience with Nandrolone and am a little nervous about the whole 'deca d!ck' thing (although that may apply much more to deca durabolin specifically?), but I will also have Cialis on hand to deal with that, and i'm hoping the test keeps it evened out.

I should also note that I am not dying to run this cycle, so if you don't think the timing is right (with the whole summer situation, etc), or you simply don't feel i'm ready for any other reason, let me know but be specific please!

All opinions welcome, but i'd love to hear from Marcus, Swifto, and any other HOF'ers / Vet's. Thanks guys!

[cro]

no liver support.

What's up people. I'm toying with the idea of running another cycle. A little info:

Age: 35
Height: 5'11
Weight: 192lbs
BF%: 12% - 13%
Cycle History - 1 cycle, 12 weeks test e + dbol @ 30mg ED, weeks 1-4. Standard PCT Clomid 100/50/50/50, Nolva 40/20/20/20.

Here's the deal. IF I decide to run another cycle (and if I get the blessing from all of your collective feedback), I want it over and done with before the summer hits. I am not gonna want to be eating and feeling big and bloated throughout the hot months, and I know from experience that it's a bad idea to cut during and right after PCT. SO, I am looking at running something shorter this time. Ideally, i'd start at the beginning of March and be finished with the cycle by the end of April, so roughly 8 weeks is as long as i wanna go. That leaves May for PCT, and then the summer is JUST beginning and i'll have the time to cut a bit later in June and going into July (if even necessary). Enanthate is obviously out. Here is my proposed cycle - again this is a 'rough draft':

Weeks 1-8 - Test Prop, 100-150mg EOD
Weeks 1-8 - NPP, 100-150mg EOD
Weeks 1-4 - Dbol , 40mg ED (not sure about this yet)
Adex on hand

PCT - I can obviously run the same standard PCT I ran in my first cycle, but it might be a little weak. Open to further suggestions.

I'd appreciate your opinions on this cycle. I have no experience with Nandrolone and am a little nervous about the whole 'deca d!ck' thing (although that may apply much more to deca durabolin specifically?), but I will also have Cialis on hand to deal with that, and i'm hoping the test keeps it evened out.

I should also note that I am not dying to run this cycle, so if you don't think the timing is right (with the whole summer situation, etc), or you simply don't feel i'm ready for any other reason, let me know but be specific please!

All opinions welcome, but i'd love to hear from Marcus, Swifto, and any other HOF'ers / Vet's. Thanks guys!

[Bertuzzi]

I like your cycle a lot but I personally wouldn't use the Dbol , but thats just me... problem I see is the EOD pinning.... You're gonna be pinning 2 to 3ml in one inject site, or are you planning on pinning the prop in one spot and the NPP in the other?? I would just go with ED injects 50mg NPP and 75mg Prop ED.... (Unless you have Prop 200 and NPP 200 then you'll be ok with EOD injects)

I got the diet under control now and running pretty much that exact cycle and loving it.... I love pinning ED... but maybe I am just sick in the head

Hope this helps, good luck my friend

[gbrice75]

no liver support.

Like I said, I haven't decided whether or not i'll even be running the dbol . If I do, i'll pick up UDCA or some other comparable liver protectant.

I like your cycle a lot but I personally wouldn't use the Dbol, but thats just me... problem I see is the EOD pinning.... You're gonna be pinning 2 to 3ml in one inject site, or are you planning on pinning the prop in one spot and the NPP in the other?? I would just go with ED injects 50mg NPP and 75mg Prop ED.... (Unless you have Prop 200 and NPP 200 then you'll be ok with EOD injects)

I got the diet under control now and running pretty much that exact cycle and loving it.... I love pinning ED... but maybe I am just sick in the head

Hope this helps, good luck my friend

Thanks Bert. Ideally i'd like to pin the test and NPP together all at once, but I hear you about potentially 2-3mg per pin... I'm a fan of pinning the quads, not much into the ass and haven't tried the delt yet. I suppose if i'm going to be pinning EOD or ED (God forbid!), i'm gonna have to get comfortable with alternate injection sites.

Glad you got the diet under control bro, I knew you'd come around! =)

Anybody else? Any feedback regarding PCT?

[gbrice75]

BUMP!!!

C'Mon guys! Not for nothing, but I give so much of my time over in the diet section, and I do it with pleasure.... but once in a while I need some support too! It's a little disheartening when I can't get more then 2 replies in the busiest section of the forum.

Is my cycle such absolute perfection that it requires no critique? Doubtful. If it IS, can I at least get a gtg?

[marcus300]

Week 1-8 - Test P 100mgs ED
Week 1-7- NPP 75mgs ED
HCG - 250ius 2 x weekly throughout the cycle
standard pct

I always prefer to drop the 19 Nor a week from your main compound even though its fast acting, in the past ive always recovered better doing this. Dbol is optional to your goals, if you want to put on some water weight and addED mass then stick some in if you dont leave it out.

[BJJ]

I would pin ed getting used to inject all over the body.
Also, I would not run DBOL but TBOL, I am not a fan of unnecessary water weight.
HCG is now a must for me, I understood the difference with and without on my own skin.
Least but not last, I would use exemestane and not anastrozole with HCG.
Good Luck

[MBMETC]

i like the cycle and in fact i would run the same, your gonna like nandralone its an impressive compound imo although i ran decaonate. dont stress the deca dick it's overblown. pct is gonna need to be strong consider extending to 5 weeks or going
clomid 100/100/50/50
nolva 40/40/20/20
hcg if you can get it, run it
d-bol is your choice but remember your adding bloat in a cycle that uses esters to limit bloat.
i agree with bert on the pinning situation but i guess knowing what your compounds are dosed at would help
delts are painless for me and my preferred goto site.
im jelouse, you have put in a shit ton of hard work on your cut and this cycle is gonna complete the long raod of your transformation and i wish you nothing but the best of luck. i also expect to see pics..


now can you give me feedback on my question in my last post in my cut log...

[gbrice75]

Week 1-8 - Test P 100mgs ED
Week 1-7- NPP 75mgs ED
HCG - 250ius 2 x weekly throughout the cycle
standard pct

I always prefer to drop the 19 Nor a week from your main compound even though its fast acting, in the past ive always recovered better doing this. Dbol is optional to your goals, if you want to put on some water weight and addED mass then stick some in if you dont leave it out.

Thanks for your feedback Marcus. Btw, I apologize if I sounded pissy earlier. It was 5:30am, about 11 degrees out, and I was on my way to the gym and not in the best of moods, lol!

So based on your recommendation above, i'm looking at 700mg test p/week - you don't think that's a bit high considering it's only my 2nd cycle? You'd know better then me obviously, just asking. No prob. dropping the NPP a week early, and i've decided against the dbol mainly because I cannot get tabs from my guy and don't trust the liquid crap after my last experience with it. These 2 compounds should be plenty anyway, and with the faster ester I probably don't need much of a kick start anyway.

I have to try and get my hands on HCG, i'm wondering if I can get a dr. to prescribe it? That may be a tough one. As for standard PCT - what I ran in my 1st cycle is gtg in your opinion?

Thanks again bro!

I would pin ed getting used to inject all over the body.
Also, I would not run DBOL but TBOL, I am not a fan of unnecessary water weight.
HCG is now a must for me, I understood the difference with and without on my own skin.
Least but not last, I would use exemestane and not anastrozole with HCG.
Good Luck

Thanks BJJ. Yea, if i'm pinning ED I will absolutely have to pin all over the body. I'm fine with delts (never have, but no issues with trying it) and quads. I don't like the glutes simply because I can't see. I'm wondering if I can get away with the 4 mentioned muscles and just use different inject sites per muscle, all relatively close?

If possible, i'd like to pin the test and nandro together to keep injections to a minimum. Any issue with this? Just use 2 different draw pins obviously to avoid cross contamination.... anything else? This would allow me to pin the same site (or near it) every 4 days. I'll work on getting HCG and will look into Aromasin vs. Adex, thx!

i like the cycle and in fact i would run the same, your gonna like nandralone its an impressive compound imo although i ran decaonate. dont stress the deca dick it's overblown. pct is gonna need to be strong consider extending to 5 weeks or going
clomid 100/100/50/50
nolva 40/40/20/20
hcg if you can get it, run it
d-bol is your choice but remember your adding bloat in a cycle that uses esters to limit bloat.
i agree with bert on the pinning situation but i guess knowing what your compounds are dosed at would help
delts are painless for me and my preferred goto site.
im jelouse, you have put in a shit ton of hard work on your cut and this cycle is gonna complete the long raod of your transformation and i wish you nothing but the best of luck. i also expect to see pics..


now can you give me feedback on my question in my last post in my cut log...

Thanks MB! As mentioned above i'll probably drop the dbol/tbol idea and just stick with these 2 compounds. I have no problem running a heavier PCT if that's the majority vote. I'll be finding out shortly what my compounds are dosed at, and then can detail the plan. I'm hoping you're right about this cycle... I don't think it'll complete the road but if it gets me a bit further down it in terms of adding some quality LBM, i'll be very happy. I wish they could synthesize a compound that targets specific muscle groups!!! (not talking about Synthol here). I'd be all about delts and lats!

[Bertuzzi]

GB, when I pin ED.... I go with delts, Triceps, Pecs and Quads. Tris are just like doing delts, even if they seem worse and pecs are easy.... you can see everything you're doing perfectly. 8 spots will do you fine for ED pins.

Good Luck!

[gbrice75]

GB, when I pin ED.... I go with delts, Triceps, Pecs and Quads. Tris are just like doing delts, even if they seem worse and pecs are easy.... you can see everything you're doing perfectly. 8 spots will do you fine for ED pins.

Good Luck!

Thanks Bert. Pecs seem weird to me (sensitive) but worth a shot. Beats an infection or being overly sore.

So far, nobody's recommended me against this cycle for any reason, which i'm happy about. When i say 'this' cycle, I mean cycling in general right now.

[scotty51312]

Good to see this thread GB, Pecs are actually easier than you might expect, just as long as you dont' get to close to the front delt and the shoulder joint. I seem to have some dense veins in that area.

[MACHINE5150]

it's tough to recomend a dosage when you did not say how much test e you ran your first cycle.

i think 75mg test prop ED (525mg/week) and 50mg NPP ED(350mg/week) would give you good results.. no need for an oral kickstart since you will feel the prop right away.

run HCG at 250iu (or more) 2x a week.. or even EOD if you wanted to.. it is hard to over do it.


If you were feeling a bit daring i would say perhaps doing Tren Acetate instead of NPP.. since you already have a shreaded look, i think it would work wonders on your physique, and then you won't have to worry about cutting into summer.. if anything you will probably drop to 9% BF.

Tren is by far the best steroid out there.. it burns fat and builds muscle better than anything. I personally have not used it yet as i have only recently been able to get my hands on it and will be running 100mg prop and 75mg tren my next cycle starting in april.

[MACHINE5150]

also.. there is no reason you couldn't inject in the same muscle two times a week.. i have done it before with no problems.. so you can cycle left/right delts and quads and be fine

[gbrice75]

Good to see this thread GB, Pecs are actually easier than you might expect, just as long as you dont' get to close to the front delt and the shoulder joint. I seem to have some dense veins in that area.

Thanks for the info brotha!

it's tough to recomend a dosage when you did not say how much test e you ran your first cycle.

i think 75mg test prop ED (525mg/week) and 50mg NPP ED(350mg/week) would give you good results.. no need for an oral kickstart since you will feel the prop right away.

run HCG at 250iu (or more) 2x a week.. or even EOD if you wanted to.. it is hard to over do it.


If you were feeling a bit daring i would say perhaps doing Tren Acetate instead of NPP.. since you already have a shreaded look, i think it would work wonders on your physique, and then you won't have to worry about cutting into summer.. if anything you will probably drop to 9% BF.

Tren is by far the best steroid out there.. it burns fat and builds muscle better than anything. I personally have not used it yet as i have only recently been able to get my hands on it and will be running 100mg prop and 75mg tren my next cycle starting in april.

Ugh, i'm a bonehead. I edited the post to include test e dosage, sorry. It was 500mg/week, pinned 2x/week.

At the risk of sounding retarted, I guess i'm a bit 'scared' of tren? I've always felt like it might be for a bit more of an advanced cycle, not a 2nd. Maybe i'm wrong. I'll research it for sure.

also.. there is no reason you couldn't inject in the same muscle two times a week.. i have done it before with no problems.. so you can cycle left/right delts and quads and be fine

I'd like that!

[MACHINE5150]

the sides seem to be similar to the sides you experience on clen .. i.e. sweats, sleeplessness etc.. some experience a cough similar to a smokers cough.. i would say that probably only 1/3rd of the guys i know that have done it have ever said that it was bothersome.. most just say it is noticeable, but they all say that they will never do anpther cycle with out tren being a part of it. Some of these guys are 10 cycles deep and some only their second cycle.

let me know what you end up doing, be nice to follow your progress.

[gbrice75]

the sides seem to be similar to the sides you experience on clen .. i.e. sweats, sleeplessness etc.. some experience a cough similar to a smokers cough.. i would say that probably only 1/3rd of the guys i know that have done it have ever said that it was bothersome.. most just say it is noticeable, but they all say that they will never do anpther cycle with out tren being a part of it. Some of these guys are 10 cycles deep and some only their second cycle.

let me know what you end up doing, be nice to follow your progress.

Hmnmm.... now you've really got my wheels turning. DAMNIT Machine!!! I had my cycle all worked out and you fvcked it up! Lmao, jk bro, you know I appreciate any and all feedback/suggestions.

[BJJ]

Thanks BJJ. Yea, if i'm pinning ED I will absolutely have to pin all over the body. I'm fine with delts (never have, but no issues with trying it) and quads. I don't like the glutes simply because I can't see. I'm wondering if I can get away with the 4 mentioned muscles and just use different inject sites per muscle, all relatively close? I would not do that but use at least also the gluteus (in front of a mirror) and chest or lats (raising your arm).

If possible, i'd like to pin the test and nandro together to keep injections to a minimum. Any issue with this? Absolutely not, it is wise to do so. Just use 2 different draw pins obviously to avoid cross contamination yes.... anything else? yes, if you use HCG, remember to ingest exemestane the same day you inject. This would allow me to pin the same site (or near it) every 4 days. I'll work on getting HCG and will look into Aromasin vs. Adex, thx!

Good Luck

[MACHINE5150]

yes, if you use HCG, remember to ingest exemestane the same day you inject.

never heard of this before.. what does this do BJJ?

[scotty51312]

I've always used one draw needle for two different vials and as long as you sterilize both of the rubber stoppers first i wouldn't worry about cross contamination, My last cycle i shot test and EQ in the same barrel and the EQ definitley stopped the injection pain and acted the same as something like grapeseed oil would,

Prop can be painfull for some people but i've not read many threads about pain from NPP, with that being said I would think it would be bennificial for you to inject both compounds together.

Even on an EOD pinning schedule even if you use both delts and quads, you won't be pinning the same muscle twice in a week. I find that either of those sites for me can handle 2.5cc's of oil easily. Or use glutes and get the wife to help ya out. If she's anything like mine she'll enjoy the idea of using you as a human dartboard.

[BJJ]

never heard of this before.. what does this do BJJ?

An AI is necessary to avoid estrogens raise.

[gbrice75]

So the question now becomes.... NPP or Tren Ace? I can get my hands on either one without a problem. The more I research and talk to people about Tren, the more interested I become. Then again you have the test + nandro cycle which is pretty much a staple.

What to do, what to do? My goal is (probably like 99% of other people here) to add as much QUALITY lean mass as possible while at least maintaining bodyfat. If I can LOSE bodyfat in the process (Tren?), that's a huge bonus and may wind up giving the edge to one of the compounds.

[MBMETC]

So the question now becomes.... NPP or Tren Ace? I can get my hands on either one without a problem. The more I research and talk to people about Tren, the more interested I become. Then again you have the test + nandro cycle which is pretty much a staple.

What to do, what to do? My goal is (probably like 99% of other people here) to add as much QUALITY lean mass as possible while at least maintaining bodyfat. If I can LOSE bodyfat in the process (Tren?), that's a huge bonus and may wind up giving the edge to one of the compounds.

I'm gonna say from what I understand tren will do remarkable things when single digit bf is in place. I to like the allure of tren but just wouldn't consider running it until My bf was low. Jmo

[gbrice75]

I'm gonna say from what I understand tren will do remarkable things when single digit bf is in place. I to like the allure of tren but just wouldn't consider running it until My bf was low. Jmo

So at around 13% you think it might not be worth it?

Any other opinions on this? Machine, you mentioned how I have the 'shredded look', but truth be told i'm above 10% for sure, so maybe not as cut as you think. Would you still recommend Tren ? Have you seen others with higher BF use it, and if so what were the results?

[jimmyinkedup]

Weeks 1-8 - Test Prop, 100-150mg EOD id do 75-100 ed
Weeks 1-8 - NPP, 100-150mg EOD id do 100ed
Weeks 1-4 - Dbol , 40mg ED (not sure about this yet) up 2 u - dont see great benefit in relationship to ur stated goal
Adex on hand Id use it....25ed or .5 eod - thats just me
Standard pct
Id also stick with npp for 2nd cycle..good intro to 19 nor...there will be time for tren ....

[baseline_9]

Test p 75mg ED weeks 1-8
NPP 75mg ED weeks 1-7
Dbol 20mg ED weeks 1-8

HCG 200 IU EOD weeks 1-8
Arimidex 0.5 mg EOD weeks 1-8

PCT

Nolvadex 40 20 20 20 20
Clomid 100 50 50 50 50
Liv 52 DS 4 caps, 2 caps, 2 caps, 2 caps, 2 caps, 2 caps


Im sure u would respond well to that m8

U may wanna run the test a little higher, up to you TBH

If u run an AI like that u will not bloat on Dbol

I have also read that running a low dose of dbol for longer is more efective...

It WILL make you stronger which will help you gain size IMO


Just throwing my opinion out there, i know there are lots already

Glad to see u changed ur mind on test e and deca (wasnt that what u said u were guna run)

[BJJ]

Considering the possible sides of tren , and considering also it is your 2nd cycle, I would use only Test and NPP.

[gbrice75]

Ok guys, thanks for all of the suggestions. I'm going to drop the Tren for now and save that for a possible 3rd cycle. Here's what i'm looking at now:

Weeks 1 - 8: Test Prop 75mg ED (700mg/week might be a bit much for me for a 2nd cycle, so sticking within the 500mg/week range this time)

Weeks 1 - 7: NPP 75mg ED (taking Marcus' advice here as recovery is very important to me)

Weeks 1 - 8: HCG 250iu's split 2x/week - I may not be able to get my hands on this

Weeks 1 - 8: Adex .25mg ED or possibly .5mg EOD. This is if I cannot get HCG. If I can, I will look further into Aromasin.

Dropping Dbol as my guy no longer deals with any orals whatsoever. No biggie.

PCT - with my first cycle (test e), I waited 2 weeks before starting. Obviously I won't be doing that now with the shorter esters, but how soon to start? Immediately? 1 week after?

Clomid: 100/100/50/50
Nolva: 40/40/20/20

I'd rather run a heavier PCT vs. a longer one (I don't want to PCT for 5 weeks if I don't have to).

So looking at my latest proposal, what do you think? Other then a few loose ends I need to tie up, am I gtg?

[BJJ]

GTG to me.

For PCT wait 48/72 hours since the last prop pin and start it.
For the AI, my suggestion for Aromasin was due to personal experience but many will tell you that Adex is fine too.
I advise you to study both compounds with their own particularities and then choose.

[jimmyinkedup]

Ok guys, thanks for all of the suggestions. I'm going to drop the Tren for now and save that for a possible 3rd cycle. Here's what i'm looking at now:

Weeks 1 - 8: Test Prop 75mg ED (700mg/week might be a bit much for me for a 2nd cycle, so sticking within the 500mg/week range this time)

Weeks 1 - 7: NPP 75mg ED (taking Marcus' advice here as recovery is very important to me)

Weeks 1 - 8: HCG 250iu's split 2x/week - I may not be able to get my hands on this

Weeks 1 - 8: Adex .25mg ED or possibly .5mg EOD. This is if I cannot get HCG. If I can, I will look further into Aromasin.

Dropping Dbol as my guy no longer deals with any orals whatsoever. No biggie.

PCT - with my first cycle (test e), I waited 2 weeks before starting. Obviously I won't be doing that now with the shorter esters, but how soon to start? Immediately? 1 week after?

Clomid: 100/100/50/50
Nolva: 40/40/20/20

I'd rather run a heavier PCT vs. a longer one (I don't want to PCT for 5 weeks if I don't have to).

So looking at my latest proposal, what do you think? Other then a few loose ends I need to tie up, am I gtg?

looks good to me....

[MBMETC]

gtg i like..

[Pac Man]

Nice looking cycle. Keep us posted on gains

[tjax03]

Does anyone think it might be wise to have something like caber on hand in case of prolactin sides?

[BJJ]

^^^
Prolaction should not be an issue during that type of cycle but it could be an issue after PCT.

[sadukar]

last bit of advice: Find the HCG . It isn't that hard to find. not that expensive either. It is worth it. It will make PCT go super smooth.

[Swifto]

Looks fine, but go 5-6 weeks with PCT, not 4 weeks. SMaller doses over a longer peroid are best IMHO.

[gbrice75]

Thanks all! I'm gonna try and do this right, but it will take longer to accomplish (getting HCG , etc). I will also be running a longer PCT as Swifto and some others above suggested. I don't want to, but of course will do whatever is in the best interest of my recovery.

[MBMETC]

Looks fine, but go 5-6 weeks with PCT, not 4 weeks. SMaller doses over a longer peroid are best IMHO.

Kinda what I thought when I mentioned a 5 week pct, good looking swifto