Test E w/ frontload, just as same as Test Prop? :o

[Redial]

Just wondering, with Test Enanthate any gains are not seen usually before 5weeks or more. I have understood that this is because the total amount of hormone in bloodstream doesn't peak up until then, and because test generally does not do anything special in your body so quickly.


In example if we put regular 12week 500mg/w test e-cycle (2x 250mg shots monday and thursday) in the roidcalc.com, it shows that the peak (77) is on week 6.

However, if we add just 2x extra shots in the 2 first weeks (let's say mon/wed/fri 3x 250mg=750mg/w) we can see that the level will peak at very early stage, on week 2! And it actually peaks up higher, then settles down little by little to the correct one (77).

And as far as I know, that calculator shows the ACTIVE amount in bloodstream, which is released from the ester.


Now in the other hand, if we put there a regular test prop cycle with EOD shots and same amount of test (in this example 142mg/EOD which is almost equal to 500mg/w) - we can see that the level peaks up around week 3.. Later than with E!


So by this, it would be just the same thing to do a:
1) 8week TEST E cycle 500mg/w frontloading 750mg first 2 weeks
2) 8week TEST PROP cycle in similar dose, shot EOD


Is there something I'm not getting here? test is test, and that shows the released test in bloodstream, no matter if it's from prop, enanthate or cypionate.. So there should not be any difference to regular test prop cycle?


Another thing is that if ANY test cycle will do too much in just 8 weeks.. but I'm just comparing prop vs. e here, as people always says that you can do short propionate cycles, but not with enanthate.

Any REAL arguments why would it be true?

[stevey_6t9]

i dont see the point in trying to get fancy here, just run either enanthate or prop...front loading imo only gave me a big crash after 4 weeks and tons of sides that came with it.

both short and long esters reach peak conc. around week 3 regardless, so just stick to one compound.

[Redial]

Well the reason I'm thinking this, is because test prop doesn't seem to give me any good gains, I've tried it 2 times and it just makes me red and ridiculously sweaty, feeling ill and feverish all the time.

Test E seems to work pretty nicely, but I don't want to do any 10 or 12week cycle as the sides are too bad and hard recovery. Done that 2 times as well.

So I'd like to stick with Test E, but to keep it short, 8 weeks max.

So I'm just wondering why would it be any different to do 8week test cycle with e, than prop - as clearly it's possible to have the same amount of test in your bloodstream just as quickly with the Enanthate?
I don't see a point why prop would be REALLY any better for short cycle, only good thing is that it is OUT of your system more quickly..


So, Am I right that it's not after all about the ester, it's generally the fact that test works slowly no matter in which form it is, and it takes some time before gains are achieved?

btw, how about if doing 8week test cycle 500mg/w enanthate, first week 750mg -> by calculator it looks like this is not causing any kind of crash, it's just raising the levels to the peak 1-2weeks quicker?

[xeroxy]

Prop is better for short cycles because gains in strength and mass are realised quicker than they are with enanthate for example.
It's quite simple really once you realise the MOA of steroids, don't try to over complicated matters.
Steroids work by stimulation of receptor molecules in muscle cells, which activate specific genes to produce proteins. They also affect the activation rate of enzyme systems involved in protein metabolism, thus enhancing protein synthesis and inhibiting protein degradation.
This process happens faster with shorter esters because the decay rate is much faster which facillitates the above process in a shorter time frame.

[D7M]

Well the reason I'm thinking this, is because test prop doesn't seem to give me any good gains, I've tried it 2 times and it just makes me red and ridiculously sweaty, feeling ill and feverish all the time.

Test E seems to work pretty nicely, but I don't want to do any 10 or 12week cycle as the sides are too bad and hard recovery. Done that 2 times as well.

So I'd like to stick with Test E, but to keep it short, 8 weeks max.

So I'm just wondering why would it be any different to do 8week test cycle with e, than prop - as clearly it's possible to have the same amount of test in your bloodstream just as quickly with the Enanthate?
I don't see a point why prop would be REALLY any better for short cycle, only good thing is that it is OUT of your system more quickly..


So, Am I right that it's not after all about the ester, it's generally the fact that test works slowly no matter in which form it is, and it takes some time before gains are achieved?

btw, how about if doing 8week test cycle 500mg/w enanthate, first week 750mg -> by calculator it looks like this is not causing any kind of crash, it's just raising the levels to the peak 1-2weeks quicker?

I love prop, and it has always treated me very well.

If you're not getting gains off prop it means your diet/training sucks or your gear is bunk.

[Redial]

Prop is better for short cycles because gains in strength and mass are realised quicker than they are with enanthate for example.
It's quite simple really once you realise the MOA of steroids, don't try to over complicated matters.
Steroids work by stimulation of receptor molecules in muscle cells, which activate specific genes to produce proteins. They also affect the activation rate of enzyme systems involved in protein metabolism, thus enhancing protein synthesis and inhibiting protein degradation.
This process happens faster with shorter esters because the decay rate is much faster which facillitates the above process in a shorter time frame.

Yes, all you said is true - but a bit off the topic. As in the roidcalc program, it shows the active amount of test in the bloodstream after it's released from the ester (if the "show active" box is checked). Or am I wrong?

So I was talking about the actual TEST amount in bloodstream, after the ester is gone. And it seems to be the same and at same point of cycle with test-e + frontload than it is with prop.

So why prop would still make better gains quicker...? I can't understand.

[Redial]

I love prop, and it has always treated me very well.

If you're not getting gains off prop it means your diet/training sucks or your gear is bunk.

Gear was tested in lab, it was 100%. My diet and training were the exact same in both, prop and enanthate as those were in same cycle. First 8weeks of prop 100mg/EOD then upped to 75mg/ED, and test e was last 5 weeks 500mg/w.

8weeks of prop - Nothing but sweating, weight the same
Last 5 weeks of test E - Best size and strentgh gains so far, about 15lbs of weight gain.

Mostly I think this was because the prop made me feel so feverish and hot all the time, so the strentgh was missing big time.

But this is not the point - prop has too much sides for me, so after all the main question remains - why test e could not be run for 8weeks with tiny frontload, when prop can - as the actual hormone levels in bloodstream seem to be pretty much identical?