Comments on first cycle, questions on when to use HCG, etc

[Shroud83]

Hi guys, just looking for a little feedback on my first cycle as well as confirming some things that I've been researching.

First off I'm 27, 5'5" 185lbs, muscular build (not sure of my exact bf%), been working out for 10 years intermittently. Currently have an excellent support system in place for my workouts and nutrition.

I'm obviously new to the forum but I have read nearly all of the stickies and educational threads and other articles online. However I have found some conflicting information and have a few questions.

I have a "friend" who has quite a bit of experience using gear that has been giving me advice. However after doing my own research I'm concerned about some of the things he's told me. For example he has recommended using EQ and Deca together with no Test. Based on my research this doesn't make much sense. EQ and Deca are normally stacked with Test, which is what I would prefer to do.

Secondly I've seen different advice about HCG . Some say to use it with your PCT to get the testes back up and running, and others say to use it during the cycle to prevent them from shrinking in the first place, but DISCONTINUE it at the end of the cycle because it is suppressive to your natural LH production. This makes sense to me and is part of my plan but I would like some verification.

I am planning on have Nolva on hand in the event that symptoms of gyno present, and using Clomid for PCT. However if I can't find Clomid I should be fine using Nolva for PCT instead (correct?).

Now in regards to the Nolva, some say to keep it on hand in case symptoms show up and use ~20mg/day until symptoms go away, others say to run it during the entire cycle. I plan on the former but tell me if I'm wrong.

Finally, here is my cycle plan, including PCT, this is of course based on the previous comments so if something is obviously out of place, speak up.

Week 1: 200mg EQ
Week 2: 200mg EQ, 250mg Test E
Week 3: 200mg EQ, 250mg Test E, 250IU twice a week of HCG
Week 4: 200mg EQ, 250mg Test E, 250IU twice a week of HCG
Week 5: 200mg EQ, 250mg Test E, 250IU twice a week of HCG
Week 6: 200mg EQ, 250mg Test E, 250IU twice a week of HCG
Week 7: 200mg EQ, 250mg Test E, 250IU twice a week of HCG
Week 8: 200mg EQ, 250mg Test E, 250IU twice a week of HCG
Week 9: 200mg EQ, 250mg Test E, 250IU twice a week of HCG
Week 10: 200mg EQ, 250mg Test E, 250IU twice a week of HCG
Week 11: 250mg Test E, 250IU twice a week of HCG
Week 12: nothing
Week 13: 200mg/day Clomid
Week 14: 100mg/day Clomid
Week 15: 50mg/day Clomid

If that's too many subjects for one thread let me know and I'll split it up!

-Shroud

[PK-V]

Hi guys, just looking for a little feedback on my first cycle as well as confirming some things that I've been researching.

First off I'm 27, 5'5" 185lbs, muscular build (not sure of my exact bf%), been working out for 10 years intermittently. Currently have an excellent support system in place for my workouts and nutrition.

I'm obviously new to the forum but I have read nearly all of the stickies and educational threads and other articles online. However I have found some conflicting information and have a few questions.

I have a "friend" who has quite a bit of experience using gear that has been giving me advice. However after doing my own research I'm concerned about some of the things he's told me. For example he has recommended using EQ and Deca together with no Test. Based on my research this doesn't make much sense. EQ and Deca are normally stacked with Test, which is what I would prefer to do.

eq can be run with deca
a 19 nor and test derivative
but test would be better
well it depends on your goals really

Secondly I've seen different advice about HCG . Some say to use it with your PCT to get the testes back up and running, and others say to use it during the cycle to prevent them from shrinking in the first place, but DISCONTINUE it at the end of the cycle because it is suppressive to your natural LH production. This makes sense to me and is part of my plan but I would like some verification.

good question
hcg on cycle starting two weeks in up until 2 weeks into pct is where it's at
the problem with using hcg into pct is desensitization but it's not an issue at 150-250iu e3d during first 2 weeks of pct

I am planning on have Nolva on hand in the event that symptoms of gyno present, and using Clomid for PCT. However if I can't find Clomid I should be fine using Nolva for PCT instead (correct?).

I don't use clomid for possible ocular toxicity but you should be g2g with only nolva if ur using the hcg

Now in regards to the Nolva, some say to keep it on hand in case symptoms show up and use ~20mg/day until symptoms go away, others say to run it during the entire cycle. I plan on the former but tell me if I'm wrong.

correct unless doses are crazy (looking below) there not, you probaly not gonna even need it

Finally, here is my cycle plan, including PCT, this is of course based on the previous comments so if something is obviously out of place, speak up.

Week 1: 200mg EQ
Week 2: 200mg EQ, 250mg Test E
Week 3: 200mg EQ, 250mg Test E, 250IU twice a week of HCG
Week 4: 200mg EQ, 250mg Test E, 250IU twice a week of HCG
Week 5: 200mg EQ, 250mg Test E, 250IU twice a week of HCG
Week 6: 200mg EQ, 250mg Test E, 250IU twice a week of HCG
Week 7: 200mg EQ, 250mg Test E, 250IU twice a week of HCG
Week 8: 200mg EQ, 250mg Test E, 250IU twice a week of HCG
Week 9: 200mg EQ, 250mg Test E, 250IU twice a week of HCG
Week 10: 200mg EQ, 250mg Test E, 250IU twice a week of HCG
Week 11: 250mg Test E, 250IU twice a week of HCG
Week 12: nothing
Week 13: 200mg/day Clomid
Week 14: 100mg/day Clomid
Week 15: 50mg/day Clomid

If that's too many subjects for one thread let me know and I'll split it up!

-Shroud

cccc

[karlos]

as regards to hcg use it throughout if you want to have a set of balls then stop using after last shot

with the EQ mininum of 14 weeks if you want to see any real gains because it has such a long ester and takes weeks to eventually start working. you will get slow but good gains if you extend the cycle to 14 weeks

[PK-V]

i didn't know they lifted weights in tipperary
might as well on the gear lol

dublin here!

[Shroud83]

I forgot to put my goals in there, looking to bulk, trying to gain quality muscle mass. If Eq should be ran longer than 10 weeks, then maybe I should run a Test E/Deca 10 week cycle until I get more of the Eq.

Being my first cycle I'm looking to play it on the safe side. I'm in perfect health and plan on staying that way

[PK-V]

why not just test at 400-600 week

fuk adding a 19 nor on your first cycle (deca )

test all the way

I would have said add an oral... but you said you were looking after your health :P

start stacking compounds on your second....third.........etc

[ss135]

So can someone clear this up for me..
Do you include the 500iu/week HCG in the time between your last injection and PCT start? or do you stop HCG injections when you stop the Test injections?

[Shroud83]

My understanding is that you STOP HCG when you stop Test. So you inject your last test and HCG, then you have two weeks of nothing, then you begin PCT.

"At the end of the cycle, drop the hCG two weeks before the AAS clear the system. For example, you would drop hCG about the same time as your last Testosterone Enanthate shot."

[Shroud83]

Okay so as a few corrections to this cycle:

Week 1: 200mg EQ
Week 2: 200mg EQ, 250mg Test E
Week 3: 200mg EQ, 250mg Test E, 250IU twice a week of HCG
Week 4: 200mg EQ, 250mg Test E, 250IU twice a week of HCG
Week 5: 200mg EQ, 250mg Test E, 250IU twice a week of HCG
Week 6: 200mg EQ, 250mg Test E, 250IU twice a week of HCG
Week 7: 200mg EQ, 250mg Test E, 250IU twice a week of HCG
Week 8: 200mg EQ, 250mg Test E, 250IU twice a week of HCG
Week 9: 200mg EQ, 250mg Test E, 250IU twice a week of HCG
Week 10: 200mg EQ, 250mg Test E, 250IU twice a week of HCG
Week 11: 250mg Test E, last shot of 250iu HCG
Week 12: nothing
Week 13: 20mg/day Nolva
Week 14: 20mg/day Nolva
Week 15: 20mg/day Nolva

Any other comments?

[dec11]

eq worthless esp at tht miniscule dose and you should really only do test only for a 1st cycle
test is fairly low at 250mg, you would get results if diet and training are right, you'd be happier with 400-500mgs
no need for the high clomid doses: 50/50/50/50/50

[jpalmer]

on your first cycle i I wouldn't do hcg in the beginning of the cycle I would rather do it the last 3 weeks to kick start recovery followed by nolva instead of clomid, but actually your clomid doses are pretty good so you can stay with clomid, it will be more expensive though.