second cycle after stupid first

[Symbifi]

Ok so a few of you already know my by my posts earlier last week. And I appreciate your advice and am taking proper measures to take care of the situation. Again, thank you.
Now for my next question..
I've been considering after my pct in taking Primobolan and winstrol. Basically, I have the size I want, weight wise and now want to cut as much body fat as possible. I'm not going for "show" quality, just a nice cut with the least amount of mass loss by the end. I would like for this to be my last cycle ever but I want to keep as much size as possible? Any suggestions would be optimal.
With noticeable risk of gyno, what do you think I should have on hand or take during the cycle?
My choice of gear could be off as well so any suggestions there would help as well.
Any advice on caloric intake while on those items would also be helpful.
I expect a loss in size once off completely but what would be the best to take/do to maintain as much as possible?
I do know some of the sides of the stated gear and have done research as to what helps to alleviate those sides. But any knowledge on the subject would be extremely beneficial.. i.e. personal experiences and what you did to combat them.

I know some of these questions are answered if not all of them... "somewhere" in these forums. My only problem with that is where I'm located, i have very low quality internet and it takes forever to just open up one page let alone read through them all. And with what I do, I just don't have all the time to wait for it haha. Not lazy, just already in cycle and going to be PCT'ing it soon

[wmaousley]

Well Neither Primo or Winstrol Convert into estrogen so developing Gyno from these will be very rare, I would use Masteron insead of Primo JMO.
Having said that its always good to have Arimidex or Letrozole with Nolvadex anytime you take AAS. Also you should have Cebergoline (Dostinex) for PRG Gyno. But the chances of having any gyno symptoms is slim to none.

For your Dieting questions please ask in the Diet part of the Forum.

[Symbifi]

Ok, sorry for the dieting question part. I was just trying to get it all at once and related to suggestions on gear specifically.
So Masteron huh? I haven't done much research on that one yet.

[marcus300]

Sounds like you havent learnt anything, your going to be running another stupid cycle if your plan is to cycle primo and winny! Ive no idea what your first cycle was but if you want advice your going to have to put up your stats and cycle history.

Dont run primo and winny only,

For your goals your trying to achieve and if your never going to be cycling ever again, you dont need steroids to cut your bf and rip up, just increase your cardio and re-design your diet to suit your needs.

[Symbifi]

Thank you Marcus. I think I was a little quick to say this would be my last cycle but nonetheless... I appreciate you input. The reason I brought up Primo and Winny is because I've seen other forums mentioning it in a cycle. Not much info on what else they used really but those two were mentioned stacked a few times is all. Can you briefly tell me why doing those alone is a no-go?
I've been reading up on Mast a little bit as well, I just liked the primo idea for it's lack of sides compared to others is all.
So, lets say this is not my last cycle, I want to add mass and lose weight at the same time.... What, in your opinion is the best combination?
Believe me, I've learned a lot from just this past week but most of that has been focused on PCT. I'm just having trouble with knowing what to take and what not to take. Mainly because most of the stuff I read on each and every "gear" is a more scientific selling point so I don't know what problems I will potentially face or what results I can expect without first knowing the question itself. I'm just new into this is all and I take criticism very well.

[Noles12]

Well Neither Primo or Winstrol Convert into estrogen so developing Gyno from these will be very rare, I would use Masteron insead of Primo JMO.
Having said that its always good to have Arimidex or Letrozole with Nolvadex anytime you take AAS. Also you should have Cebergoline (Dostinex) for PRG Gyno. But the chances of having any gyno symptoms is slim to none.

For your Dieting questions please ask in the Diet part of the Forum.

Are you really suggesting he runs Mast and Winny alone?

If so please stop because that is horrible advice

[Noles12]

Thank you Marcus. I think I was a little quick to say this would be my last cycle but nonetheless... I appreciate you input. The reason I brought up Primo and Winny is because I've seen other forums mentioning it in a cycle. Not much info on what else they used really but those two were mentioned stacked a few times is all. Can you briefly tell me why doing those alone is a no-go?
I've been reading up on Mast a little bit as well, I just liked the primo idea for it's lack of sides compared to others is all.
So, lets say this is not my last cycle, I want to add mass and lose weight at the same time.... What, in your opinion is the best combination?
Believe me, I've learned a lot from just this past week but most of that has been focused on PCT. I'm just having trouble with knowing what to take and what not to take. Mainly because most of the stuff I read on each and every "gear" is a more scientific selling point so I don't know what problems I will potentially face or what results I can expect without first knowing the question itself. I'm just new into this is all and I take criticism very well.

Test should be the base of any cycle because you are shutting yourself down. Not knowing this shows me you still are not ready to cycle again due to lack of research. If you had truly researched that would be one of the first things you would see

[Symbifi]

Ok so I think I've gotten the point now. Do it on my own before I introduce anymore gear and read read read read more haha. I did find more on test/primo stacks after you mentioned it but have yet to really see a "why" to it. I'll keep reading but if you have a response as to this I'd appreciate it. From what I read, I'm informed that you don't have to take "as much" of the more harsher, side effect possible gear if you stack it with primo. So how does one calculate the amount? Or is that just another bs article I read?

[Turkish Juicer]

I have read your entry carefully and you make it clear that you want to gain some lean & quality mass with minimum bloating and/or fat gain. As for your second cycle, keep it simple but effective. Run a 12 week cycle of Primobolan Depot & Testosterone Enanthate 250 (or Sustanol 250). Throw in Anavar (Oxandrolone) for 8 weeks if you want extra results from your cycle. I also strongly recommend you employ Arimidex throughout the cycle as your anti-estrogen. So, this is what your ideal 2nd cycle would look like:

Week 1-12: 200 mg Primobolan Depot EOD & Testosterone Enanthate 250 EOD & Arimidex 0.5 gr EOD (Total of 600 mg Primobolan Depot and 750 ml of Testosterone Enanthate 250 every week)
Week 4-12: Anavar-Oxandrolone 80 mg ED (Optional)
Week 13-14: Arimidex 0.5 gr EOD
Week 12-15: HCG 500 i.u. E5D (4 injections, total)
Week 14-16: Nolvadex 40 mg ED
Week 16-20: Nolvadex 20 mg ED

As for your diet, first and foremost, you should realize that your body will be reaching an enormous capacity of synthesizing a whole a lot of more protein per meal (we are looking at an addition of about 300 grams a day, that being the extra amount on top of how much your liver can naturally synthesize per day and/or meal). So, before anything else, keep your daily protein consumption at max. levels if you want all that quality gear to actually work. Also make sure you get a good amount of healthy/complex carbs with most of your protein meals.

Enjoy your brand-new lean & hard quality muscle mass!

[Noles12]

I have read your entry carefully and you make it clear that you want to gain some lean & quality mass with minimum bloating and/or fat gain. As for your second cycle, keep it simple but effective. Run a 12 week cycle of Primobolan Depot & Testosterone Enanthate 250 (or Sustanol 250). Throw in Anavar (Oxandrolone) for 8 weeks if you want extra results from your cycle. I also strongly recommend you employ Arimidex throughout the cycle as your anti-estrogen. So, this is what your ideal 2nd cycle would look like:

Week 1-12: 200 mg Primobolan Depot EOD & Testosterone Enanthate 250 EOD & Arimidex 0.5 gr EOD (Total of 600 mg Primobolan Depot and 750 ml of Testosterone Enanthate 250 every week)
Week 4-12: Anavar-Oxandrolone 80 mg ED (Optional)
Week 13-14: Arimidex 0.5 gr EOD
Week 12-15: HCG 1000 i.u. E5D (4 injections, total)
Week 14-16: Nolvadex 40 mg ED
Week 16-20: Nolvadex 20 mg ED

As for your diet, first and foremost, you should realize that your body will be reaching an enormous capacity of synthesizing a whole a lot of more protein per meal (we are looking at an addition of about 300 grams a day, that being the extra amount on top of how much your liver can naturally synthesize per day and/or meal). So, before anything else, keep your daily protein consumption at max. levels if you want all that quality gear to actually work. Also make sure you get a good amount of healthy/complex carbs with most of your protein meals.

Enjoy your brand-new lean & hard quality muscle mass!

Well you math is a little off. That would be 700mg of Primo a week and 875 mg of test. That is way to high of doses for a second cycle and the proposed PCT is way too weak

[Turkish Juicer]

Noles12: I see your point. There are 30 days in a month and since injections in this case are made every 48 hours, that is 15 injections total on a monthly basis. In that case, yes, my math seems a little off but I was obviously referring to a 7 day scheme. There are 7 days a week and 200 mg of Primo EOD equals to 600 mg per week, same calculation goes for Test and so on. Well, thank you for your hyper-critical approach anyways.

As for determining whether this is too high of doses for a second cycle or not, is a matter of perspective. My second cycle included similar doses of the gear above and I was more than happy with it. In fact, my training partner (who is younger than me with a completely different body type and training philosophy) and I decided to start our 2nd cycles together. His 16 week cycle included everything above, plus 2 units of prescribed German Human Growth Hormone on a daily basis. Due to carefully planned dosages of Arimidex throughout the cycle as well as employment of HCG & Nolvadex with the right dosages and careful scheduling, neither of us had any issues in terms of libido, testicular atrophy, serious bloating, intolerable acne and etc. Moreover, as an experienced Primobolan user and fan,I don't see the point in injecting less than 200 mg of Primobolan EOD on a 12 week cycle or doing a shorter Primobolan cycle for that matter. I guess Test. Enanthate 250 injections EOD can be pulled back to twice a week, that way also aromatization and hence risk of gynaecomastia will be regardfully lowered. Also, Anavar-Oxandrolone 80 mg ED was stated as optional.

You have mentioned that PCT is way too weak. Since you did not get into the details of why so, I would like to ask you which aspects of that PCT you find weak. I mean, there is the 4 injections of HCG 500 i.u., which start at the last week of the cycle and it is followed by 6 weeks of Nolvadex. Just to clear the air and settle the facts of the case, I already knew that 20 mg of Nolvadex increases your natural test. levels by 146% before I planned my 2nd cycle, therefore, I never understood why I would also have to throw in Clomid and/or Proviron in my PCT all at the same time.