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Not very familiar with sustanon but from what I have been reading lately, basically I get that sustanon is no more or less effective than other forms of test but you inject it far less often....it is more expensive but for those (like myself) who are not too excited about pinning yourself, are there any other reasons why we shouldn't choose sustanon over other forms?
Sust should be pinned as often as test e or c to keep stable blood levels, at least for body building purposes
I would go EOD for sust, I would also do the same for E and C, for the same reason you stated.Quote:
Originally Posted by RaZr
Scammer ^^^^^ do not fall for this scumbags stinky linky
Yes the link got deleted, I am glad I came back to this thread as it looks like I am reffering to terraj's post and calling him a scumbag which I am not.
Most deff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Far from massive
EOD for sust, im guessing at a low dosage, eg most amps i have seen are like 250mg, lets say you want to do 500mg a week, you would you want to do say 142mg EOD, now trying to get correct amount is going to inconvenient right ? I get why you would want to do EOD but its just not practical right ?
did the link in question get deleted?
if anything you should pin sust more often due to the prop in it.. but you can get away with either two times a week.. the more frequent you pin the more balanced your blood levels will be.. but whether you would notice the difference physically on if you pinned test e twice a week or EOD or ED.. i doubt it
also, read an interesting article on sust. with a different type of protocol. 2 of my friends tried it with great results. 3 cc's once every 8 days. (did a lower dose due to experience level)
here is the article, taken from PM. Original poster is Ouchthathurts on PM.
Quote:
Abstract: Sustanon And It’s Use
By OuchThatHurts
Sustanon. Every BBer in the world knows the name. Every “noob” has to try it. But is it a good choice for BBers? Not really. Unless you know what you’re doing and even then you would likely have better and more stable results with less expensive and easier to maintain compounds. Let’s take a look at Sustanon.
Sustanon was originally designed and formulated by Organon as a timed-release compound used for androgen replacement for hypogonadic males, HRT, and all the other uses where androgens are indicated. The difference being that Sustanon (sustained release) was designed to be administered once per month. By combining multiple esters in such a way, starting with shorter chain molecules (propionate) and progressing to longer ones (decanoate), you can design a formula that takes effect almost immediately and releases it’s payload (testosterone) over a length of time.
So let’s look at the esters in Sustanon. Would anyone consider stacking two forms of esterified test in a single cycle? For example, would you combine propionate and enanthate? If so, how would you do it? Would you take 30mg or propionate every other day or twice a week along with 100mg of enanthate at the same time? Of course not! Well not only are you doing that with sust, but with FOUR esters, not just two. Testosterone is testosterone whether your body cleaves it from a short molecule or a long molecule. Many people still think that these different esters of the same organic compound are somehow different or “synergistic”. That’s almost like saying the caffeine in coffee is different than the caffeine in Pepsi. And if you stack coffee and Pepsi you’ll have a more pronounced effect or synergistic effect. There IS a difference but in only one regard and that is that you will get MORE raw test mg/mg with shorter esters than longer ones. The reason for this is simple. The larger the molecule, the more carbons are added which increases the total weight of the molecule. In short, more of the molecule’s weight is taken up by carbon and not testosterone. The additional carbon and occasionally oxygen atoms also increase the compound’s solubility and half-life but that is beyond this article. So what esters are we dealing with in Sustanon?
propionate 30mg (2 days)
phenylpropionate 30mg (4 days)
isocaproate 60mg (9 days)
decanoate 100mg (15 days)
In parenthesis, you see their approximate half lives. It is no coincidence that each ester is roughly twice the quantity of the one before it nor is it coincidental that each half life is approx. double the length of the one before it. Still beyond this article. Moving on…
I decided to experiment with Sustanon after receiving a fairly large quantity. Even though I had plenty, I was still thinking greedily and wanted to get the most out of my testosterone dollar. I started with the twice-a-week approach. A month later, I had no gains, a bad flu, and had used almost 20 amps (1ml) at 250mg/ml. I wanted to know what had gone wrong. It didn’t take long to figure out. During the first week, all that had taken effect was the prop and phenylprop. And 120mg total (out of 500mg) is all that my system saw. That’s about enough to suppress the axis but that’s it. Throw two amps in the trash. The second week, probably not much different and had used 4 amps (1000mg). By the third week I had the flu. Not exactly a surprise with all the HPTA suppression and unstable test levels. Most people have heard of the “sust flu”? Well, there you go. I was beginning to plan a PCT regimen when it dawned on me… I’m not getting enough STABLE, high levels of testosterone! So not long after that I moved everything to the all to common every-other-day (EOD) approach. Don’t get me wrong, I started noticing results but then again, who wouldn’t? This is a shotgun approach! If you had propionate and enanthate would you just keep dosing until something worked? No. You wouldn’t. The idea there is to just keep shooting the stuff and “one of them esters” will eventually work. Personally, I don’t like this approach. I think we can do much better. After all, don’t we owe it to Organon to abuse their product properly? SO… how well did it work? I’d have 3 good days, followed by 3 bad days. I was emotional. I wanted to sleep all the time. I had a runny nose. Two different blood tests during this time proved that I had almost twice the free test in my system as the blood test a week later. By this point, my great buy was turning into a great waste. I took 2 months off, did a fairly aggressive PCT and started planning my next cycle.
Here is where it seemed to all come together. I decided to try taking Sustanon as Organon intended, but in BBer amounts. This meant using it less frequently but using larger doses. Using it as a SUSTained-release product. Again, being greedy like I am, I didn’t want to waste the propionate in the Sust so I scheduled the entire cycle dosage amounts based on what I would take if I was doing a propionate-only cycle. This meant 4 amps or 1000mgs. That gave me a starting dose of 120mg propionate (30mg x 4) and instead of taking the next dose of propionate, I knew I could just relax knowing that as the propionate fell off, the phenylpropionate would begin and as the phenylpropionate fell off, the isocaproate would begin, etc, etc. This worked phenomenal and I began the cycle figuring on every two weeks (one decanoate half life). In reality, I played with this until I found a sweet spot of 8 days (approx. half of a half life). This gave me testosterone levels that remained stable throughout the cycle and at levels that were good for the results I wanted. You may need to adjust this time period to suit your physiology.
Conclusion: If I were to ever use Sustanon in a cycle again, which I doubt since there are less expensive, more stable compounds available, I would use it as intended in BBer amounts. I would do 1000-1500mg once every 8 days. This would allow for it to take immediate effect and with a few additional amps of propionate, you could use it with predictable stability right up until a few days before starting PCT. This dosing regimen, in my opinion, combined with equipoise or nandrolone would be a very productive cycle. Given the choice, I would still stick with enanthate. The injections are usually painless, the stability is high, the half life is fairly long. If you don’t mind EOD injects then prop or phenylprop would also be better choices than Sustanon in my opinion. Especially phenylprop. You would likely have to compound this yourself though as I haven’t seen this ester alone very often except in the case of nandrolone phenylprop (fast-acting deca).
I bloated like crazy on sust
thanks guys....i'm a little confused, far from massive....who are you calling a scammer and what link?Quote:
Originally Posted by Far from massive
They deleted the scammers posts
k....so why do all the profiles on sustanon say it onlt needs to be injected once or twice a month if you guys say it should be done EOD?
If you want stable blood levels or any benfit bodybuilding wise you need to inject it at least 2x a week
Twice a week administration of sust is more than adequate for BB purposes since the prop and phen-prop release concurrently making sust very similar to Enth or Cyp.
Here, this should help: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...tion-frequency
okay i get what you're saying for bodybuilding purposes but what about say, an athlete in season?
I'm not a body builder but an martial arts expert, I'm on sustanon 600mg/w and inject every 3rd day 250mg.Quote:
Originally Posted by super-pump
I started at 250mg /w injected once a week... I felt really strong the day after injection then a 6 day period of nothing...
now I inject every 3rd day, I feel it work every day, and I'm strong every day.
so if you want to build up or cut down then pin your self every 3rd day or so... unless you only intend to work out once a week... then you can pin your self the day before workout... but using steroids with that kind of workout seems useless...
Sorry for all the confusion on the missing link, it was some fly who was posting links to his supposed steroid connection.
As far as why is sustanon good and bad.
Sustanon is effective in a TRT situation, by combining specific amounts of different Testosterone Esters you are able to maintain even blood levels from one injection to the next.
However for this to be effective the Sust has to be injected with in the intended amounts and with the intended frequency, if not then it all goes to hell quick. I really think if a UGL ever made a product for cycling where it was intended for people running 400-600mg a week and the first bottle had more short esters and was maybe 5ml the next one had slightly less short and more mid and was 10ml and the ratios were adjusted each bottle therafter it would work pretty well and be a great marketing scheme.
Shame I am not a UGL mook.
PS agree totally with the twice a week on Sust, the mid and long esters will soon make pinning more frequently a moot point.