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  1. #1
    ANIMAL's Avatar
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    Been there, done that. Just need advice.

    Here are my stats:

    Age: 25
    Height: 5'4
    Weight: 171
    BF %: 10-14

    Cycle History: It's been awhile since I've been on any compound, so I don't remember the exact dosage but I do remember the combos I've used.

    My first ever cycle was just Test E. I then added another compound for my 2nd cycle with the Test E which was Anavar . After doing that cycle, my 3rd cycle was Test E/Tren /Winstrol . All the PCT was done right with AI during my cycle. All 3 of these cycles were only done for 8-10 weeks if I remember correctly. I've gotten bloodwork from the start, at the end of each cycle and the beginning of the next. I am going for bloodwork next week and then will probably start my next cycle the first week of April.

    I started lifting in 2006 and I was 123lbs. Late 2008, I maxed my weight out at 155lbs. I have been on a few cycles throughout 2009. The last time I was on gear was August 2009, summer of 2009 I peaked at around 181lbs.

    Basically I've taken a good amount of time off to recover fully, maintain my weight of 170-175lbs just using protein and a strict diet/cardio/lift regiment.

    My next cycle I'm looking to do for 12weeks using a few compounds such as Test Prop/Winny/EQ/Anavar. I'm open for suggestions as well although I don't want to use any other test blend/deca or tren.

    Goals: get BF% to 6-8% but still maintaining my 170+lbs.

    Here are the three cycles I've put together, I'm not listing any AI or PCT but that's a given:

    Cycle 1:
    Test Prop……….1-12: 150mg EOD
    Anavar…………..1-12: 50mg ED (oral)
    Winstrol…………6-12: 50-80mg ED (inj.)

    Cycle 2:
    Test Prop........1-10 150mg EOD
    Anavar............1-10 50mg ED

    Cycle 3:
    Test Prop.......1-12: 150mg EOD
    EQ................1-12: 200mg Mon/Thurs (400mg/total a week)

    I was also possibly thinking of adding Winstrol in cycle 3 during 6-12 weeks, taken as an oral.

    Here is a picture of my back and front:


    Last edited by ANIMAL; 03-07-2011 at 03:11 PM.

  2. #2
    scotty51312's Avatar
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    EQ and anavar wouldn't be a good cycle for your goals. Test should be a part of any cycle IMO. 12-16 weeks is a long time to be running prop since you would be injecting every other day.

    Have you cycled before, and if so what did you run?

    Aromasin is a AI, and theres no need for it durring PCT, AI's stop the conversion to estrogen, without the exogenous test you wouldn't need it. You would be much better of running two SERMS like nolva/clomid

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by scotty51312 View Post
    EQ and anavar wouldn't be a good cycle for your goals. Test should be a part of any cycle IMO. 12-16 weeks is a long time to be running prop since you would be injecting every other day.

    Have you cycled before, and if so what did you run?

    Aromasin is a AI, and theres no need for it durring PCT, AI's stop the conversion to estrogen, without the exogenous test you wouldn't need it. You would be much better of running two SERMS like nolva/clomid
    Well, I believe a 8 week cycle of test isn't enough, so 12 weeks would probably be more suffice. Is there a better Test to run in a "cutting cycle" other then Prop?

    It says that I have cycled before in my original post if you read it.

    Aromasin IS a AI, I'm not disagreeing with you. But if you read my post, you would see I'm not using Aromasin during my cycle, only in my PCT with Nolvadex because it pairs well with it, Arimdex doesn't. So I'm using Arimdex during my cycle and Aromasin during my PCT. Unless I have those backwards, but I'm 90% sure that's how it's used best.

  4. #4
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    AI's durring PCT can lead to estrogen rebound after PCT when you stop taking them and cause such problems, like having a limp dick for example.

    Read swifto's Q&A thread on PCT's in the PCT forum. I lack the ability he has to make things easier to unerstand.

    With your goals you're not running a true cutting cycle, You're trying to add lean mass while cutting fat, its much easier to commit to one or the other.

    My suggestion to you would be to consider a lean mass cycle, 8 weeks of prop, followed by PCT then a few weeks after your PCT just use diet and cardio to cut bodyfat,

    Another option would be to run a longer cycle 12-14 weeks and think of it in two stages, lean mass gaining then cutting.

    Other esters of test like enanthate or cypionate are pinned less frequently but are more assosiated with bloat, but with an AI on cycle it wouldn't be much of a concern.

  5. #5
    ANIMAL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scotty51312 View Post
    AI's durring PCT can lead to estrogen rebound after PCT when you stop taking them and cause such problems, like having a limp dick for example.

    Read swifto's Q&A thread on PCT's in the PCT forum. I lack the ability he has to make things easier to unerstand.

    With your goals you're not running a true cutting cycle, You're trying to add lean mass while cutting fat, its much easier to commit to one or the other.

    My suggestion to you would be to consider a lean mass cycle, 8 weeks of prop, followed by PCT then a few weeks after your PCT just use diet and cardio to cut bodyfat,

    Another option would be to run a longer cycle 12-14 weeks and think of it in two stages, lean mass gaining then cutting.

    Other esters of test like enanthate or cypionate are pinned less frequently but are more assosiated with bloat, but with an AI on cycle it wouldn't be much of a concern.
    I did read swifto's Q&A as well as another thread (forget the name) that stated that Armidex was good because it wasn't as potent as Aromasin , to use on cycle... and when using PCT it was good to switch up to Aromasin when using Nolvadex because they work better together then Armidex/Nolva. I could be completely wrong, which is why I made this thread in the first place, because I have some confusion because it has been awhile since I've been on.

    Are you suggesting I do a Test only cycle and not use any other compound afterwards to cut? I could have sworn all of the "cut cycles" I've read included prop/winny combo... I was adding anavar for hardness and pumps (which is what I experienced when using it). If I break the cycle up into two stages, the first stage running test only, wouldn't my second stage continue with test if I'm using winny? So instead of doing the first cycle, why wouldn't I just do the second stage and run only one stage if that's the case?

    I didn't choose Test E or Cyp because of the bloating that I have experienced in the past. If I could I would do just a winny only cycle, but I know that is not good, which is why I chose to add the Prop.

  6. #6
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    I've also added a front pic to my original post.

  7. #7
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    I'm just trying to give you some ideas.

    Nothing wrong with a test only cycle. The diffference you'll notice with prop is it kicks in much quicker, within 2 weeks or so thats why prop cycles are often short. After so many weeks of high test levels your body begins to aclimate and gains come more and more slowly. For me with a long ester around week 11 everything starts to slow down. Since prop kicks in faster your body will start growing faster but that plateu will also come faster.

    An oral kickstart could be a good idea for the first few weeks of any cycle. Anavar would be a good choice if you're trying to stay lean, tbol would be another option to consider.

    You've got a good foundation and as long as you have a solid test base to your cycle The rest is going to be more dependent on gearing yoru diet and training towards your goals

  8. #8
    ANIMAL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scotty51312 View Post
    I'm just trying to give you some ideas.

    Nothing wrong with a test only cycle. The diffference you'll notice with prop is it kicks in much quicker, within 2 weeks or so thats why prop cycles are often short. After so many weeks of high test levels your body begins to aclimate and gains come more and more slowly. For me with a long ester around week 11 everything starts to slow down. Since prop kicks in faster your body will start growing faster but that plateu will also come faster.

    An oral kickstart could be a good idea for the first few weeks of any cycle. Anavar would be a good choice if you're trying to stay lean, tbol would be another option to consider.

    You've got a good foundation and as long as you have a solid test base to your cycle The rest is going to be more dependent on gearing yoru diet and training towards your goals
    I appreciate your help. I'm still curious as to the AI's during/after cycle... or if I should be ok with just a SERM like nolva/clomid, depending on what cycle I choose to run.

    Scotty, I'm assuming your suggestion looks something like this:

    Anavar: 1-12 50mg ED
    Prop: 4-12 ???mg twice a week?

    I will definitely consider that cycle, anyone else have winstrol suggestions? I've used Winstrol in the past and felt it worked well with my body. Suggesting maybe adding winstrol into the above cycle for 6 weeks. Winstrol 6-12: 50mg ED?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by b23 View Post
    I appreciate your help. I'm still curious as to the AI's during/after cycle... or if I should be ok with just a SERM like nolva/clomid, depending on what cycle I choose to run.

    Scotty, I'm assuming your suggestion looks something like this:

    Anavar : 1-12 50mg ED
    Prop: 4-12 ???mg twice a week?

    I will definitely consider that cycle, anyone else have winstrol suggestions? I've used Winstrol in the past and felt it worked well with my body. Suggesting maybe adding winstrol into the above cycle for 6 weeks. Winstrol 6-12: 50mg ED?

    Just start the test at the same time as the var. The var will help you start growing while you're test levels come up to where they need to be. Winny dosage is fine but you wanna be running something for liver support cause its highly liver toxic.

    PCT I would suggest
    Nolva/clomid
    1 week after last injction Nolva 1st week 40mg ED 3more weeks at 20mg clomid 100mg ED 1st week, 50mg each day 3 more weeks

  10. #10
    ANIMAL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scotty51312;5555***
    Just start the test at the same time as the var. The var will help you start growing while you're test levels come up to where they need to be. Winny dosage is fine but you wanna be running something for liver support cause its highly liver toxic.

    PCT I would suggest
    Nolva/clomid
    1 week after last injction Nolva 1st week 40mg ED 3more weeks at 20mg clomid 100mg ED 1st week, 50mg each day 3 more weeks
    What dosage of the Prop would be good to run, assuming the prop it's twice a week?
    Last edited by ANIMAL; 03-06-2011 at 08:46 PM.

  11. #11
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    Let me ask you this. If gyno is present, I would run letro throughout the cycle and at the end of the cycle is it still necessary for PCT of nolvadex so there is no rebound effects? I keep reading over the sticky and that's what I get out of it and I can't PM anyone this question.

    Edit:

    For anyone interested here is the answer to this question.

    Quote Originally Posted by C_Bino View Post
    Letro and the estrogen rebound:
    With your estrogen being completely inhibited there is a definite estrogen rebound as your body tries to re-stabilize the testosterone:estrogen balance. We can prevent this rebound effect by supplementing further with another AI or SERM. So, I suggest that when you are coming to the end of your cycle you will more than likely be using Nolva in your PCT so just make sure that you begin taking nolva the last day you are going to take your letro and then continue on as you would with regular PCT.
    Last edited by ANIMAL; 03-06-2011 at 08:31 PM.

  12. #12
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    Here are a few cycles that I have put together that would work best for what I'm looking to gain (hard muscles/vascularity/lower BF%). I already have the weight I want to be at. These are just the compounds, I am not listing any pct or ai.

    Open for suggestions on others.

    Cycle 1:
    Test Prop……….1-12: 150mg EOD
    Anavar …………..1-12: 50mg ED (oral)
    Winstrol …………6-12: 50-80mg ED (inj.)

    Cycle 2:
    Test Prop.......1-12: 150mg EOD
    EQ................1-12: 200mg Mon/Thurs

    Does anyone suggest adding winstrol to cycle 2 as maybe an oral? I'm asking a lot of questions because I can see from other posts a lot of people out there have a lot of the same questions, figured it would be easier to get all my questions out there
    Last edited by ANIMAL; 03-06-2011 at 10:15 PM.

  13. #13
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    edited my original post, hope that helps better.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by b23 View Post
    Let me ask you this. If gyno is present, I would run letro throughout the cycle and at the end of the cycle is it still necessary for PCT of nolvadex so there is no rebound effects? I keep reading over the sticky and that's what I get out of it and I can't PM anyone this question.

    Edit:

    For anyone interested here is the answer to this question.
    That quote is referring to running an AI like letro on cycle, When you stop your cycle the serms block the receptors that take up the estrogen from the rebound, IF you continue an AI durring PCT then whats going to stop it after? See what i'm saying? AI's durring PCT=bad idea.

    Personally like you first cycle idea better. even though i think its a bit long and you're not going to enjoy all the pinning youre going to do

  15. #15
    ANIMAL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scotty51312 View Post
    That quote is referring to running an AI like letro on cycle, When you stop your cycle the serms block the receptors that take up the estrogen from the rebound, IF you continue an AI durring PCT then whats going to stop it after? See what i'm saying? AI's durring PCT=bad idea.

    Personally like you first cycle idea better. even though i think its a bit long and you're not going to enjoy all the pinning youre going to do
    Yea I did a lot more research on the AI and basically answered my own question... I wouldn't do the AI during PCT.

    My other cycle being Test Prop/Var cycle?

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    yeah that one

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