"Bulking cycle then directly into summer cutting"

I am 30 yrs old, male. Height = six foot three inches, weight = 250 lbs, around 20% bf. I have done probably about 3 past steroid cycles in my life. I have been weightlifting for 15 years. I am currently on an off period last injection was in September (Post cycle therapy). I am giving my body a rest. I am still working out about 5 days a week (its tough off cycle to stay motivated but I like discomfort and pain), still taking protein, creitine, aminos etc. to bridge the gap. About two months ago I had gynomastia surgery (Not from steroids it was from puberty, I always wanted to get it done financially I was finally able to). Its healed great it looks great, it was worth every penny. I obviously chose to have it done during my off cycle period. I also have an appointment to have all blood work done during this off period to have everything checked out testosterone levels, cholesterol, thyroid, diabetes, liver, and kidney function, stds, hiv etc. I feel great I have had physicals blood pressure checked ect im as healthy as an ox. I just decided to get the blood work done just to be certain. Ok here’s the deal and some questions. Immediately after I get my blood work results back, I am ready to rock and roll. I have stock piled over the last few months a amazing cycle I’m super excited about. I am doing a solid classic bulking cycle and then I’m continuing straight into my summer cutting cycle. Please critique it and I’m open to all suggestions and criticism. Thanks in advance bros !!
Winter Bulking cycle = 12 weeks
Sust 350 = 800 mgs./ a week for 12 weeks
Deca 300 = 500 mgs./ a week for 12 weeks
Dbol 15 mgs a pill = 2 pills a day for 8 weeks
Nolvadex 1 pill a day 20mgs a pill for 12 weeks
Summer cutting cycle = 12 weeks, starting on week 13
Sust 350 = 800 mgs. / a week for 12 weeks
EQ 300 = 500 mgs./ a week for 12 weeks
Anavar tabs 40 mgs a day for 1-8 weeks
Tren Enth = 500 mgs./ a week for 1-8 weeks
Winny tabs = 40 mgs a day for 1-8 weeks
Nolvadex 1 pill a day, 20 mgs. A pill for 12 weeks

I have my workout routine down along with a good clean bulking diet for the first 12 weeks, and then I put together a nice clean cutting diet for the last 12 weeks. A few great ebooks I found to help me are The Bulking Primer By LeanMeOut & rambo @anabolicreview.com, Tom Venuto - Burn the Fat, Feed the Muscle, and Chemical Wizardry - Anabolic Steroids for Bodybuilders. Great books Highly recommended.
1. Will the gyno come back during and or after these cycles? Im thinking about adding clomid, and amiridex to the mix along with the nolva I already have?
2. I want to pack on as much muscle as possible during the bulking 12 weeks, but I love doing cardio too. Can I pack on the muscle, but also with a clean diet, and cardio routine will I be able to keep the fat off too. I don’t want to look like a sloppy bulker.
3. I know your not supposed to ever cut with more than one oral but this is the gear I have and Im trying to get the best results? How do my dosages look?
4. If anyone has any good workout routines and diets let me know. I’m always open.
5. I will be posting before and after pics I’m pumped for these cycles. 

I know i have a good post here. I would appreciate the feed back thx

You have to wait before you do the cutting cycle. A good rule of thumb is time on = time off between cycles. You wont be able to recover fully if you run them together. Even with proper pct. So after you are done with pct wait 12-16 weeks to start the next one. Your gains will be better anyway due to your receptors cleaning out.

^ You're running a good amount of compounds both times as well. I wouldn't do it. It's the only body you have. Give it the proper time to recover.

Your at 20% body fat and you want to bulk?

thanks guys I appreciate the response yeah I spoke to a few guys on other forums also who some said to cut the weeks down to 8 and 8 or 10 and 10 instead of 12 and 12. Now after looking at this cycle I should have a break in between with proper pct. SergeantCarbs yeah ive been on a crash diet for the last month its called the 4 hour body by Tim ferris its a great book. Im a big guy im prob down now to 18% bf. but to be honest i enjoy mass and bulking I don't want to have chizzled abs or super lean low body fat. I lift for power and mass. I know how to get thin and have a low bf% and just dont like it. Do you recomend I diet and trim down more and just do the cutting cycle? Because I still have alot of my gains left where I can mabey start cutting? anyways thanks though. Eazy20 thanks also yeah we do only have one body and thats why Im looking for advice I know alot of guys who have ran back to back bulk and cutting cycles with out pct until afterwards and they loved it. but they did lower dosages for 8 weeks then 8 weeks. 24 straight weeks on now that i look at it looks crazy lol Allday thanks too I totally agree I have until april 1 to figure it out. I want my diet, and routines to be perfect.

Ok thanks to everyone’s help I think I figured out what I’m going to do now and starting April 1st my blood work will be back any day now too. Two weeks ago I started my lean cutting diet, it’s called the 4 hour body, no carbs, high protein, and beans and lentils are the only carbs, I cut out alcohol totally. You’re allowed one cheat day a week to spike your t3 and insulin levels. I have been doing the elliptical machine 30mins, high tension. 30mins, running on the treadmill, and 10min stationary bike to cool down, in the morning everyday for 5 days a week. Then an hour of weight training , 5 days a week. I bought, stacker 2, bcaas, b12, creatine, whey protein, multi vitamin, vitamin c, amino acids, etc. I have been searching for dnp to throw into the mix but everywhere seems to be out of stock? I’m trying to get my bodyfat % lower before I start my summer cutting cycle. Listed below is what I came up with.
April 1st to June 1st
EQ 300 = 500 mgs./ a week for 8-12 weeks? Cause eq won’t kick in until around week 8. And eq can be done longer.
Winny tabs = 40 mgs a day for 1-8 weeks
Nolvadex 1 pill a day, 20 mgs. A pill for 8-12 weeks
June 1st to Sept 1st
Sust 350 = 500 mgs. / a week for 12 weeks or ? (300 mgs./ a week for 1-12 weeks?)
Tren Enth = 500 mgs./ a week for 1-8 weeks or ? ( 300 mgs./a week for 1-12 weeks?)
Anavar tabs 40 mgs a day for 1-8 weeks
Nolvadex 1 pill a day, 20 mgs. A pill for 8-12 weeks

I lowered the dosages and cut out the d-bol, deca, and extra sust so ill have it left to add to my next winter bulk. I think this looks a lot better than that last cycle I posted. Please post any comments. Tell me what you think? I’m so excited april 1st is almost here :aaGreen22

i just realized after looking at them again my winny tabs, and anavar tabs are 50mgs tabs not 40mgs a tab. Also my tren enth is 200mgs an ml. Either way i got all my blood work results back and spoke to my dr. he said all my levels come back good. So I'm ready to rock and roll now :D. **** april 1st im tried of talking about it and waiting around lol My first eq pin today, and first winny tab. I had a great workout today, and tonight im getting in my 75 min cardio session i cant wait. Its balls to the wall time from here on out till sept 1st. 2 a days at the gym, clean diet, hardcore routines all in check. all the rocky soundtracks loaded up in my ipod im all fired up lol. i was just watching on youtube dorian yates workout routine in his home gym in england that shits nutz. Great motivation. I'm posting before and after pics too. Is it possible for me to over train? I know over training happens when your off the gear but? Any good cutting workout routines?

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Originally Posted by bigrick88;5576***

Ok thanks to everyone’s help I think I figured out what I’m going to do now and starting April 1st my blood work will be back any day now too. Two weeks ago I started my lean cutting diet, it’s called the 4 hour body, no carbs, high protein, and beans and lentils are the only carbs, I cut out alcohol totally. You’re allowed one cheat day a week to spike your t3 and insulin levels. I have been doing the elliptical machine 30mins, high tension. 30mins, running on the treadmill, and 10min stationary bike to cool down, in the morning everyday for 5 days a week. Then an hour of weight training , 5 days a week. I bought, stacker 2, bcaas, b12, creatine, whey protein, multi vitamin, vitamin c, amino acids, etc. I have been searching for dnp to throw into the mix but everywhere seems to be out of stock? I’m trying to get my bodyfat % lower before I start my summer cutting cycle. Listed below is what I came up with.
April 1st to June 1st
EQ 300 = 500 mgs./ a week for 8-12 weeks? Cause eq won’t kick in until around week 8. And eq can be done longer.
Winny tabs = 40 mgs a day for 1-8 weeks
Nolvadex 1 pill a day, 20 mgs. A pill for 8-12 weeks
June 1st to Sept 1st
Sust 350 = 500 mgs. / a week for 12 weeks or ? (300 mgs./ a week for 1-12 weeks?)
Tren Enth = 500 mgs./ a week for 1-8 weeks or ? ( 300 mgs./a week for 1-12 weeks?)
Anavar tabs 40 mgs a day for 1-8 weeks
Nolvadex 1 pill a day, 20 mgs. A pill for 8-12 weeks

I lowered the dosages and cut out the d-bol, deca, and extra sust so ill have it left to add to my next winter bulk. I think this looks a lot better than that last cycle I posted. Please post any comments. Tell me what you think? I’m so excited april 1st is almost here :aaGreen22

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Please take this as being spoken with your best interests in mind... this is a horrible cycle... you are going to run EQ and winny with no test?

and whats with the 2nd portion? you are going to bulk on 300mg/wk of test? I only assume so cause Tren E will take 4-5 weeks to start working and you wouldnt shut it down @ week 8 and only get 3 weeks worth of gains from all that injecting? Not only this, but you should usually run your test 2 weeks past a long estered 19NOR.

Again, Im writing this quickly and it will sound totally harsh, but its meant to get the point across. I know you probably got this info from a guy who knows a guy who is huge or has a pro's body, but this is shit. It is easy to see why @ 6'3 you are only 250lbs with 20% bf after 3 cycles.

Please reconsider

My question is if you like bulking, why cut?

good point knockoutpower. thanks for being to the point thats what these forums are for. well then, if you dont mind. what do you suggest? How would you run it? the point of my revised cycle here is because I'm not trying to bulk. I trying to lean out, and diet to get my body fat even lower before I go into the 2nd portion of my summer cutting. i know eq and winny with out test sucks, test should always be a base to all cycles. Help me out bro thats what this is all about thx

I understand we all have different personal goals but bulking at 20% bodyfat= Ending up at 25% Bodyfat. Not trying to slam you here but I always get skeptical when I hear someone say "I dont want chiseled abs or to be lean". When I hear that I think, He doesnt want to do the work to have chiseled abs and be lean". Anyways, the whole bulking/cutting thing to me is one of the biggest problems I see with guys on this site and to try to do them one right after another makes zero sense to me. Again, only my opinion.

Just bulk, bulk, bulk, then lean.

will my receptors be ok after the 8-12 weeks of eq and winny tabs? because ill be going straight into my June 1st to Sept 1st cutting cycle. Will doing this ruin my lean bulk cutting gains? I thought about adding sust to the eq and winny as a base but i'm not because ill be doing sust, june 1st on. In a nut shell, i'm doing the eq and winny first because eq can be ran longer and i have winny tabs to throw into the mix to enhance my diet, cardio, and to get my bf% down, for when I start June 1st? Please tell me i'm not crazy? lol Does this make sense? Through all the research I have done, and different bodybuilders I have spoken to and know. I seems to make sense to me?

well im 2 weeks in tomorrow will be my second eq pin. i'm def feeling this winnys too. obviously its too early to see gains or tightening up but both are def real gear, I feel it.
Ive been doing jay cutlers diet and workout. I tweaked his diet alittle bit to cut out some carbs for my personal goals and circumstances. I love his workout routine from 2008. I have been doing 2 a days at the gym focused around my work schedule. weights during the day and cardio and abs at night, about 2, 1 hour and 1/2 daily sessions. off days wed and sunday. but I'm doing 60 cardio ed. with abs.

Jay Cutler Diet Routine ( I cut out all the rice, and bagel)

Breakfast and Lunch (approx)
Jay Cutler Breakfast and Lunch Routine

* Meal 1: 15 g whites, 3 whole eggs, 1 cup oatmeal, 1 bagel, 1 glass orange juice, water and multivitamin
* Meal 2: 8 oz. steak and 1.5 cups white rice
* Meal 3: 8 oz. chicken and 1 cup brown rice

Post-Workout Meal
Jay Cutler Dinner

* 1 serving Glutamine and 1 serving of Vitamin B
* Meal 4: 10 oz. chicken and 3 cups white rice with onions and garlic
* Meal 5: 8 oz. chicken and 1 cup brown rice
* Meal 6: Protein Shake
* Meal 7: 14 egg whites and 1 cup oatmeal

Before Bed
Jay Cutler Supplements

* 1 serving of each of the following: Glutamine, Zinc, Calcium, Magnesium, Vitamin B Complex and Vitamin C

Jay Cutler's Workout Routine

Monday (Abs, Traps, Triceps, Delts)
Jay Cutler's Delts Workout

* Delts Dumbbell Side Laterals 3 sets of 12 reps
* Dumbbell Press 3 sets of 8-12 reps
* Side Lateral Cable 3 sets of 8-12 reps
* Front Raise with Olympic Bar 2 sets of 10 reps
* Bent Over Dumbbell Laterals 3 sets of 10 reps

Jay Cutler's Triceps Workout

* Triceps Cable Extensions 4 sets of 15 reps
* Single Arm Extensions 3 sets of 15 reps
* Close-Grip Bench Press 3 sets of 8 reps
* Superset: French Press 3 sets of 8 reps
* Dumbbell Kickbacks 3 sets of 12 reps
* Dips 3 sets of 15 reps

Jay Cutler's Traps Workout

* Traps Shrugs 4 sets of 12 reps

Jay Cutler's Abs Workout

* Abs Crunches 3 sets of 20 reps
* Rope Crunch 3 sets of 20 reps
* Hanging Leg Raise 3 sets of 12 reps
* Leg Lifts 3 sets of 10 reps

Tuesday (Back)
Jay Cutler Back Workout Routine

* Back Wide-Grip Pull-downs 3 sets of 10 reps
* Dumbbell Rows 3 sets of 10 reps
* Bent Over Barbell Rows 4 sets of 10 reps
* Dead-lifts 3 sets ofof12 reps
* Close-Grip T-bar Row 3 sets of 10 reps
* Behind-the-Neck Pull-downs 3 sets of 10 reps
* Seated Rows 3 sets of 10 reps
* Hypereoftensions 3 sets of 10 reps

Wednesday (off)

Thursday (Chest, Biceps, Abs)
Jay Cutler Chest Workout Routine

* Chest Incline Barbell Press 5 sets of 10-12 reps
* Flat Dumbbell Press 3 sets of 8-10 reps
* Incline Dumbbell Flyes 3 sets of 10 reps
* Cable Crossovers 3 sets of 12 reps
* Decline Bench Press 3 sets of 8 reps

Jay Cutler Biceps Workout Routine

* Biceps Straight Bar Curl 5 sets of 15 reps
* Single Arm Dumbbell Curl 3 sets of 12 reps
* Single Arm Preacher Curl 3 sets of 10 reps
* Hammer Curl 2 sets of 12-15 reps
* Forearms Reverse Curls 6 sets of 15 reps

Jay Cutler Abs Workout Routine

* Abs Crunches 3 sets of 20 reps
* Rope Crunch 3 sets of 20 reps
* Hanging Leg Raise 3 sets of 12 reps
* Leg Lifts 3 sets of 10 reps

Friday (Quads)
Jay Cutler Quads Workout Routine

* Leg Eoftensions 3 sets of 20 reps
* Leg Press 4 sets of 12 reps
* Squats 4 sets of 6-10 reps
* Lunges 3 sets of 8 steps per leg
* Leg Eoftensions (heavy) 4 sets of 10 reps

Saturday (Hamstrings, Calves, Abs)
Jay Cutler Hamstrings Workout Routine

* Hamstrings Lying Leg Curl 6 sets of 12 reps
* Romanian Deadlift 3 sets of 10 reps
* Single Leg Hamstring Curl 3 sets of 12 reps
* Leg Press 3 sets of 12 reps

Jay Cutler Calves Workout Routine

* Calves Standing Calf Raise 4 sets of 10 reps
* Donkey Calf Raise 2 sets of 10 reps
* Seated Calf Raise 3 sets of 10 reps

Jay Cutler Ab Workout Routine

* Abs Crunches 3 sets of 20 reps
* Rope Crunch 3 sets of 20 reps
* Hanging Leg Raise 3 sets of 12 reps
* Leg Lifts 3 sets of 10 reps

Sunday (off)


Tell me what you guys think? By the way sore and tired isnt even close to describe keeping up with this routine, and then the cardio ed. Wheres the fun? lol jk owell no pain no gain. The cardio gets annoying after a few weeks but i just buckle down and get it done