First cycle length

Xxxx

14-15 weeks is pointless and even 12 weeks is too, imo. I am a firm believer that the gains stop after week 8. Therefore, my long ester cycles are usually around 8 weeks. Others will disagree, but this is just my two cents.

^^^^ Yup... 8 weeks good for first cycle. 10 at most with Test E or Cyp. With Propionate I'd go 8 at most for first cycle. Just my two cents :)

Back in the 90's 8 and 10 week were very common around my gym. If running 16 weeks you would start to increase mg after week 8. Now with all the shared knowledge the average has increased to 12 weeks. There is a reason. Many people are seeing gains into the 11th and 12th week. If it was common to see gains into week 13 or 14 you would see more people recomend it. You want to get all you can once you shut down, but you want to keep it as short as you can to reduce any long term damage. Just keep weekly logs to know when you stopped growing or if you kept growing. I would stop at week 12. This is your first cycle. You need to see how your recovery goes. Do your levels come back to pre cycle levels, what percentage of your gains do you keep, side effects. There is a lot to note on a first cycle and not the best time to experiment with length. 2nd and 3rd cycles you can start to compare. You MUST get pre cycle boodwork done.

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Originally Posted by tmtulcs

Back in the 90's 8 and 10 week were very common around my gym. If running 16 weeks you would start to increase mg after week 8. Now with all the shared knowledge the average has increased to 12 weeks. There is a reason. Many people are seeing gains into the 11th and 12th week. If it was common to see gains into week 13 or 14 you would see more people recomend it. You want to get all you can once you shut down, but you want to keep it as short as you can to reduce any long term damage. Just keep weekly logs to know when you stopped growing or if you kept growing. I would stop at week 12. This is your first cycle. You need to see how your recovery goes. Do your levels come back to pre cycle levels, what percentage of your gains do you keep, side effects. There is a lot to note on a first cycle and not the best time to experiment with length. 2nd and 3rd cycles you can start to compare. You MUST get pre cycle boodwork done.

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oh yeah? I doubt it unless they're increasing their doses.

You should log your results. I'd be interested to see your gains between weeks 8-12.

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Originally Posted by Flacco

^^^^ Yup... 8 weeks good for first cycle. 10 at most with Test E or Cyp. With Propionate I'd go 8 at most for first cycle. Just my two cents :)

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i agree,with your first cycle...test Cyp 10 weeks enough,anymore useless

Xxxx

Yeah bro.. 10 is perfect.. just my 0.2

If your gains become stagnant after week 8 or 9 adjust your diet not up your mg per week.

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Originally Posted by warlord_wang

If your gains become stagnant after week 8 or 9 adjust your diet not up your mg per week.

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Hey nice one bro... n true one... :)

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Originally Posted by warlord_wang

If your gains become stagnant after week 8 or 9 adjust your diet not up your mg per week.

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If he is cycling at his natural maximum limit, then adjusting the diet after week 8 won't do much..Diet should be on point from the start.

This was taken straight from article that Ronnie Rowland wrote about two years ago, I am a firm believer in it:

"When high amounts of androgenic anabolics steroids such as testosterone enanthate are introduced into the body, maximum receptor site stimualtion occurs during the first 3-8 weeks. After having been on test for around 8 weeks your libido will begin to level out and eventually decline as will your muscle growth as these receptor sites adjust to the exogenous testosterone. It's during this 3-8 week period of enhanced libido that maximum muscle growth occurs! Some of you will make the majority of your gains during weeks 3-6 while reloading others will gain more during week 5-8. Gains are finalized during the deload (weeks 8-10 of anabolic cycle). I do believe in set time frames in regards to reducing training volume and anabolic dosages. A 2 week deload following an 8 week reload is very important because it makes you stronger and packs on some additional muscle due to a rebound effect. Long acting esters will still present during a deload. In addition, the reduction in protein actually helps the body store more protein-hence more muscle mass!"


http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...t-to-read-this!

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Originally Posted by ******

If he is cycling at his natural maximum limit, then adjusting the diet after week 8 won't do much..Diet should be on point from the start.

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Seriously?Diet is the key reason why people don't see gains after a certain amount of weeks or mid cycle is because they aren't adjusting their diet to accommodate more muscle growth. They are basically taking in the same amount of calories protein etc they were at the start of the cycle.Upping the dose during mid cycle or even at the end wont be a good idea.

^^Or you could read the article that I posted.

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Originally Posted by warlord_wang

Seriously?Diet is the key reason why people don't see gains after a certain amount of weeks or mid cycle is because they aren't adjusting their diet to accommodate more muscle growth. They are basically taking in the same amount of calories protein etc they were at the start of the cycle.Upping the dose during mid cycle or even at the end wont be a good idea.

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Agreed. You need to up the cals to accommodate the new muscle tissue.

And IMO, you can definitely makes gains past 8 weeks.

^I respect both of your opinions. I'm just stating from my personal expiernce comibed with RRs thoughts. Take me for example, diet is always immaculate, and when my gains stop after week 8 of a long ester, I either have to up the gear slightly, come off, or increase the calories (but at the same time expect fat gain). I'm actually envious that you guys still grow after 8 weeks without gaining fat.

"When high amounts of androgenic anabolics steroids such as testosterone enanthate are introduced into the body, maximum receptor site stimualtion occurs during the first 3-8 weeks. After having been on test for around 8 weeks your libido will begin to level out and eventually decline as will your muscle growth as these receptor sites adjust to the exogenous testosterone. It's during this 3-8 week period of enhanced libido that maximum muscle growth occurs! Some of you will make the majority of your gains during weeks 3-6 while reloading others will gain more during week 5-8. Gains are finalized during the deload (weeks 8-10 of anabolic cycle). I do believe in set time frames in regards to reducing training volume and anabolic dosages. A 2 week deload following an 8 week reload is very important because it makes you stronger and packs on some additional muscle due to a rebound effect. Long acting esters will still present during a deload. In addition, the reduction in protein actually helps the body store more protein-hence more muscle mass!"

so during deload you decrease your protein intake??what about training should bring the volume down during deload?

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Originally Posted by ******

^I respect both of your opinions. I'm just stating from my personal expiernce comibed with RRs thoughts. Take me for example, diet is always immaculate, and when my gains stop after week 8 of a long ester, I either have to up the gear slightly, come off, or increase the calories (but at the same time expect fat gain). I'm actually envious that you guys still grow after 8 weeks without gaining fat.

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I guess I should expand on that.

Ronnie has a ton of knowledge and it shows in his physique. I agree that you can't just keep growing. The body grows in spurts, like children have growth spurts. So extremely long cycles are pointless, imo. But I also don't think it's fair to point to the 8 week mark as some sort of draconian rule. The 8 week mark works well for STS and I get that. But some guys may make gains well into the 10 or 12 week mark.

It's a great guideline, but like many things in body building there are no hard and fast rules that are applicable to everyone.

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Originally Posted by D7M

I guess I should expand on that.

Ronnie has a ton of knowledge and it shows in his physique. I agree that you can't just keep growing. The body grows in spurts, like children have growth spurts. So extremely long cycles are pointless, imo. But I also don't think it's fair to point to the 8 week mark as some sort of draconian rule. The 8 week mark works well for STS and I get that. But some guys may make gains well into the 10 or 12 week mark.

It's a great guideline, but like many things in body building there are no hard and fast rules that are applicable to everyone.

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Agreed everybody is different some people bodies react different so everybody can't follow one guideline. I think op should just do 8 week cycle if he is still seeing gains during his last week extend his cycle to 10 to 12 weeks.

Xxxx