Offered a freebie, please give advice.

[hoyle21]

I finally got the nerve to talk to the big guy at work about steroids, to try to get some more info. When speaking about it he had mentioned he is getting ready to start a cutting cycle, and said since I have bailed him out a few times the first one is on him. He said to just tell him what I want.

I wasn't planning on doing this until fall, because I think I can get a tad bit strong naturally, and could lower my BF% with proper diet and cardio of which I have been doing.

At the same time I really don't want to turn away free gear, a connection, and good personal advice by saying no. I am in Michigan so it is also good timing as booting season starts the end of June roughly.

I could just do a cutting cycle, do you think Test E and Winstrol is ok for a first cycle, and a cutter to boot?

Stats: 32 years old
lifting on and off since 14
6-4, down to about 250lbs (should be about 225)
Been on real clean diet for about a month, took about 2 months of trial and error to get it right.

Thanks in advance.

[Lemonada8]

I'd take the offer and wait untill you do more naturally. and dont do winny for a first cycle, just plain test.

[hoyle21]

I'd take the offer and wait untill you do more naturally. and dont do winny for a first cycle, just plain test.

Ok, I was thinking adding the winny was pushing it. I think his idea is that we would do it together so if I have any issues I have someone to talk to, and work things out with.

Thanks for the quick response!

[Far from massive]

Guy sounds like a stand up guy and while I would not worry about the free gear getting a relationship going with this guy might be of benefit to you. I would either just do a straight test e or c cycle depending on what he had available. Keep the MG low say 350-400 Eat super clean and do plenty of cardio and you (in my experience) will be able to see gains with an appreciable drop in body fat. While some might disagree since a recomp is very hard to do, in my opinion based on my own experience if you are not seriously trained then its not a "recomp"<> its a "comp" LOL and a lot easier to achieve while on cycle.

By the way is he talking about the first bottle being free or the whole cycle? Or maybe the first amp....if so I take back everything I said he is a school yard pusher and wait till you nuts start shrinking and he tells you HCG is a grand ;-)

[hoyle21]

Guy sounds like a stand up guy and while I would not worry about the free gear getting a relationship going with this guy might be of benefit to you. I would either just do a straight test e or c cycle depending on what he had available. Keep the MG low say 350-400 Eat super clean and do plenty of cardio and you (in my experience) will be able to see gains with an appreciable drop in body fat. While some might disagree since a recomp is very hard to do, in my opinion based on my own experience if you are not seriously trained then its not a "recomp"<> its a "comp" LOL and a lot easier to achieve while on cycle.

By the way is he talking about the first bottle being free or the whole cycle? Or maybe the first amp....if so I take back everything I said he is a school yard pusher and wait till you nuts start shrinking and he tells you HCG is a grand ;-)

Nope, whole thing, including anti estrogen and PCT. Like I said, I have seriously bailed his ass out a few times, plus I think he is excited to help someone out. Although he didn't say anything about HCG.

I have been eating real clean, I gave up grains, and pasta completely. Lots of chicken breast and plain tuna fish out of a can, hard boiled eggs, etc.

also, what do you mean by recomp and comp?

[Bonaparte]

Just take a rain-check on the gear and stay friends with the guy.
You don't need his advice, as it is surely crap. Most guys IRL have no idea what they are talking about.

[hoyle21]

Just take a rain-check on the gear and stay friends with the guy.
You don't need his advice, as it is surely crap. Most guys IRL have no idea what they are talking about.

You know it could be, but the guy played ball at OU with the BOZ. Seems like they were doing just about everything at that time. He had to have learned something.

[Far from massive]

Hello hoyle,

A recomp is a term for recomposition generally meaning gaining mass while cutting fat. Most any knowlegable person will say that a recomp is very difficult to achieve so there is not much point in trying you are better off just bulking on cycle and cutting later. While I would not disagree with that, I think that for someone who is not at their true potential (genetic or otherwise) its a lot easier thing to achieve ( cutting fat while gaining mass on cycle) so I used the term comp as an abbreviation for compose since with someone who is not at their natural peak already you are not dealing with a finished product, hence you are not recomposing just composing,

Sorry for any confusion, I guess if you were not familiar with the term "recomp" it would be hard to figure out my own slang term "comp".

[Bonaparte]

You know it could be, but the guy played ball at OU with the BOZ. Seems like they were doing just about everything at that time. He had to have learned something.

No. You don't need to know much about anabolic pharmacology to load up a syringe with all the gear you can find and inject it. Most "big guys" are complete idiots who are just blindly following someone else's advice. And they do well because they have good genetics (which also keeps them from getting side effects) and a solid lifestyle.

[ScotchGuard02]

If you want to do a cycle later. I'd say get the gear for a cycle, Test E, and keep it for later. If the guy is upstanding and had good gear. I'd get some free gear.

[yellowcabs]

If you want to do a cycle later. I'd say get the gear for a cycle, Test E, and keep it for later. If the guy is upstanding and had good gear. I'd get some free gear.

I could be wrong but I'm guessing the guy at his work is willing to do this partially because he is excited about doing a cycle with someone else and helping him through it. OP- I would say either do it with him or explain to him that you want to wait a bit. I don't think taking the free gear and not doing the cycle with him is the best idea.

[hoyle21]

Thanks yellowcabs, that is exactly the idea. He doesnt have any kids and even works out alone. I think this is almost the equivalent as a child coming downstairs and asking to work out together. He is very excited.

With that said, I am going to do it. He is just placing the order this weekend, and I have no idea where he gets it from, Im sure in time he will tell me.

So my first cycle is going to be

Weeks 1-10: 500mg Test Enanthate per week
Weeks 1-10: 250mg Deca per week week
Weeks 1-4: 40mg Turan per day
Weeks 1-13: 0.5mg Arimidex per day

PCT:
Weeks 1-4- 40 mg Nolva per day
Weeks 1-4 100mg Clomid per day
Weeks 1-5 1mg Arimidex per day
Week 1- 4,500 iu HCG
Week 2- 3,000 iu HCG
Week 3- 1,500 iu HCG

That seems like a lot for PCT, maybe because he is older it takes more for him to get going again?

[Bonaparte]

Thanks yellowcabs, that is exactly the idea. He doesnt have any kids and even works out alone. I think this is almost the equivalent as a child coming downstairs and asking to work out together. He is very excited.

With that said, I am going to do it. He is just placing the order this weekend, and I have no idea where he gets it from, Im sure in time he will tell me.

So my first cycle is going to be

Weeks 1-10: 500mg Test Enanthate per week
Weeks 1-10: 250mg Deca per week week
Weeks 1-4: 40mg Turan per day
Weeks 1-13: 0.5mg Arimidex per day

PCT:
Weeks 1-4- 40 mg Nolva per day
Weeks 1-4 100mg Clomid per day
Weeks 1-5 1mg Arimidex per day
Week 1- 4,500 iu HCG
Week 2- 3,000 iu HCG
Week 3- 1,500 iu HCG

That seems like a lot for PCT, maybe because he is older it takes more for him to get going again?

I'm telling you man, he's already leading you down the wrong path.
That's way too much gear for a first cycle (all you need is 400mg of test).
You don't need Adex in PCT. If you feel the need to use an AI, make it Aromasin.
And there is no reason to use more than 20mg of Nolva (apart from maybe the first week, just to build up blood plasma levels of the drug).
And HCG is best used during your cycle, or just before PCT.
IMO, he is just giving you this "free-bee" because he knows you'll come back for more in a few months and pay out the ass for an even bigger cycle. Nobody who is serious about lifting does just one cycle.

[JohnnyVegas]

^^^^ Good info.

[dru23]

I'm telling you man, he's already leading you down the wrong path.
That's way too much gear for a first cycle (all you need is 400mg of test).
You don't need Adex in PCT. If you feel the need to use an AI, make it Aromasin.
And there is no reason to use more than 20mg of Nolva (apart from maybe the first week, just to build up blood plasma levels of the drug).
And HCG is best used during your cycle, or just before PCT.
IMO, he is just giving you this "free-bee" because he knows you'll come back for more in a few months and pay out the ass for an even bigger cycle. Nobody who is serious about lifting does just one cycle.

definitely agree with this. thats a lot for a first cycle no doubt. i would even suggest starting at 250 the first 4-5 weeks and then moving up to 400 as bonaparte suggested. and definitely no more than 20mg of nolva.

[hoyle21]

Ok, apparently I misunderstood and that is his cycle. I'm just doing 400 test E a week with the oral starter.

He is sticking by his guns with the arimidix and pct though. He says better overly safe than be a man with boobs and limp.

What are the reasons and thoughts for your views on anti estrogen and pct?

[hoyle21]

Double posted on phone.

[Lemonada8]

for your PCT you need to taper them down after the 2nd week, so for nolva 40/40/20/20 and clomid 100/100/50/50 along with the HCG at 250iu 2x a week. You could proly be fine with out the clomid since its ur first cycle, and a simple cycle. Drop the Turnibol (turan). If you feel u need to take a anti-estro during the cycle, just take 10mg of nolva a day throughout the cycle, but I wouldnt do it. If sides start to pop up, then start taking the 10mg of nolva, and look at maybe gettin letro(adex) but that shouldnt be too big of a issue.

Test e at 2x a week at 250mg each shot will be perfect for ur first cycle, and thats it.
HCG at 250iu's at 2x a week during cycle then stop when ur in week 2 of PCT (so when u lower the doses)
PCT: Nolva at 40/40/20/20

thats as simple as u can get. and thats what i would do. He knows by givin u a freebie that ull be back then u can add compounds then

good luck play safe!

[Bonaparte]

Ok, apparently I misunderstood and that is his cycle. I'm just doing 400 test E a week with the oral starter.

He is sticking by his guns with the arimidix and pct though. He says better overly safe than be a man with boobs and limp.

What are the reasons and thoughts for your views on anti estrogen and pct?

You need some estrogen for normal functioning. Without it, you'll get real cranky, you won't be able to get it up, and your joints and lipids will take a beating. Also, when you drop a reversibly binding AI like Adex, you risk estrogen rebound.

You cannotn get gyno while running SERMs, and they boost LH, FSH, and test as well.
If you want to stay dry during PCT and maybe help recovery a bit, use a low dose of Aromasin. You don't risk estrogen rebound, and it has numerous other advantages.

[hoyle21]

So the consensus is I shouldn't buy anything but Test E, Nolva, HCG (whiich sounds optional) and maybe Letro in case of emergency?

It's OK to run just Nolva during the cycle and keep it for PCT?

[Lemonada8]

I wouldnt run it during the cycle period unless u start gettin sides.... but yes you can

and hcg is 'optional' but then again a pct is 'optional'

[hoyle21]

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...ed-08-12-09%29

Here is another thread, on this forum that has been stickied with actual science behind it that is for running amiridex @.5mg ED during cycle, and PCT with
Clomid @ 50/50/25/25/25
Nolva @ 20/20/20/20

No offense, but advice on this is all over the place, and everyone says they know more than the next guy and none of them agree on anything, except only do Test E for a first cycle.

[Lemonada8]

You are doing exactaly what u need to be doing, researching

they are both SERMs, although nolva has some agonist/antagonist activity at the estrogen receptor(this is why nolva is used more than clomid) clomid does more with the hormone releasing from the pit gland along with more CNS sides (hot flashes, moody, aches/pains... basically nothing really quantifiable but still there) this all depends on your bodys chemistry and how u react to it.
Nolva has its problems also, it interacts with some anti depressants, it is metabolized with the CYP2D6 in the liver and several drugs mess with that.
they both still block the estrogen receptors enough to help balance ur HPTA. One bad thing with clomid however is that it blocks negative receptors in the brain which increases secretion level but those hormones do alot more than just fix low test levels which leads to increased sides.

Its ultimately up to u, but dont over do it with the meds cuz thats when the real harm begins.

play safe

[Honkey_Kong]

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...ed-08-12-09%29

Here is another thread, on this forum that has been stickied with actual science behind it that is for running amiridex @.5mg ED during cycle, and PCT with
Clomid @ 50/50/25/25/25
Nolva @ 20/20/20/20

No offense, but advice on this is all over the place, and everyone says they know more than the next guy and none of them agree on anything, except only do Test E for a first cycle.

Hoyle, for your first cycle, you should only do a test E cycle. I wouldn't take more than 400mg per week and you'd want to split it up and get a shot say Monday and Thursday or however you want to space it out. That way the test E levels don't drop too much through the week.

As far as nolva goes, you might want to load up on it the first week and do 40/20/20/20
and as far as clomid goes, there are many different people thinking of how to dose it, but I recommend looking at the steroid profile threads and seeing how they recommend dosing it. I ran it at 100/75/50/50 when I used it.

And you should have some arimidex on hand. I don't recommend using it unless you start noticing a solid bump growing under your nipple(s).

But you should take this all with a grain of salt and not really trust what we say, but use it as a suggestion. You need to research the hell out of test E and it's dosages, arimidex, clomid, hcg and nolva before you put any of it in to your body. The more you know, the safer your cycle will be.

Also, before you start your cycle, I highly recommend you get some blood work done. Get your total and free testosterone levels, estrogen, LH, total T3 and T4 levels, and your renal activity checked. This will first tell you if you have an underlying problem but also what your natural levels are. Then a few weeks to a month after your PCT, you get them checked again to make sure you've recovered. It's a rather important step that most people don't do. But let me tell you, if it catches a problem early, it's easier to fix it than if you run several cycles and get permanently shut down.

[hoyle21]

I am going to do the adex during cycle. I had a bothersome case of gyno during puberty, and from what I have been able to research that more than likely means I am quite estrogen sensitive. I just really can't take a chance on it. I am still researching pct (leaning heavy on what my last post was) but I don't think I'm going to do HGC. This a basic, 10 week cycle, I'm going to save that for later.

Thanks for all the responses!

[hoyle21]

Already have an appointment to have the blood drawn for a full hormone panel.

[Lemonada8]

I had gyno during puberty. On my cycle it just got a lil bigger but nothing to extreme. Good luck with the AI thru ur cycle it should help keep sides down.
I still say do the HCG but at least ur informed now
PCT: nolva 40/40/20/20 worked perfect for me

actually, come to think of it... clomid and HCG do basically the same thing but HCG is more specific. With clomid you get a broader spectrum of gonadotropin increase (GnRH, FSH, LH) which these 3 have more of a impact on everything else.

Was it idiopathic gyno? (no known cause) come gyno can be due to high prolactin levels, and and prolactin is a gonadotropin i'd be careful with the clomid since it increases the hormones released in the anterior pit. Nolva doesnt increase these levels.

[Bonaparte]

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...ed-08-12-09%29

Here is another thread, on this forum that has been stickied with actual science behind it that is for running amiridex @.5mg ED during cycle, and PCT with
Clomid @ 50/50/25/25/25
Nolva @ 20/20/20/20

No offense, but advice on this is all over the place, and everyone says they know more than the next guy and none of them agree on anything, except only do Test E for a first cycle.

If you read that thread, Swifto leans toward no AI during PCT being the better choice. AND if you were to ask him, he would tell you that Aromasin is way better than Adex (as far as side effects).