Opinions appreciated

[PowerliftWill]

Hello guys, names Will. I'm a new member

Stats:
22 years old
5'7"
202lbs

cycle history:

first cycle: Test E 500mg/wk 10 weeks
second: Test cyp 500mg/wk 12 weeks


Currently on my third cycle and decided on 750mg Cyp/wk. It seemed reasonable since I had zero sides on 500mg. Now my issue is im 4 weeks into my cycle and having some clear signs on gyno. Pretty good size lump under my left nipple and puffy nips on both sides. Right side is getting worse by the day. didnt have nolva or amiridex on hand since at 500mg no sides were experience AT ALL. I ordered some liquidex off of AR-R and it will be here my friday so that is taken care of.

I understand an AI can severely reduce gains on cycle, especially since im going to have to take a heavier dose to try and shrink this gyno. Im really paranoid of losing my incredible strength gains ive had so far, not to mention its just reaching a sweet spot. Before I started the cycle i considered using tren and low dose test instead of high test dosage. so if amiridex means losing these strength gains possible, id much rather just use it to shrink the gyno, drop my test to 250mg/wk and then add tren for the remaining 8 weeks of my cycle because I know damn well tren strength gains are even better than test. Any feedback/advice from those who have used both would be sweet.

Thanks guys, sorry for the long read.

-PW

[PowerliftWill]

BUMP...heading off to work. Will update tonight as my gyno symptoms seem to worsen at night.

[YoungMan]

you should always expect sideds and have it on hand before your cycle incase you do get them you can't assume anything when taking steroids

[bjpennnn]

hey man check out these links.

Gyno Reversal
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=236880

Running Letro reversals, preventing gyno, and everthing inbetween
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=379916

Good luck bro.

[BritishNutrition]

mate get on letrozole and get on it fast!

[scotty51312]

Adding tren now wouldnt start gettin you results for a couple weeks. Adex at 1mg EOD at the start of symptoms wouldn't affect your gains that much. Like was stated earlier better safe than sorry I wouldnt start a cycle without at least having nolvadex on hand

[Lemonada8]

1) Why are you going up to 750 mg/ test week? I suggest go back down to 500/week. Additional test isnt going to increase as much as you think, just more of it will aromatize into estrogen which is why gyno is flaring up for u. a (AI) will slow the conversion, but u still need estrogen for gains, thats why they say it hampers ur gains. A SERM will block the receptor at the site, but not block the conversion process. a low dose nolva (10mg day) would be good also instead of the AI (with the lowered dose of test you wont need it)
2)Dont add tren , especially since its ur 3rd cycle of pure test no need for the binding power of tren. Tren is very potent and strong binding, and will wear out the receptors thats why its A) expensive, and B) it works. You should add a different compound depending on what you want to accomplish but definately hold of on tren.
3)Dont go from 750/week to 250/week, stay at a even keel. Although 250mg/week is greater than a TRT dose, the drop in dosage will be to fast for your body to compensate and estro-related sides will increase due to the increased conversion and such.
FYI *to cover my ass :P* you do run a elevated risk of having HRT(cuz ur young, and can cripple ur natural test) as u get older because you cant produce anything naturally. Make sure your PCT is squared away, and wouldnt hurt to throw some HCG in there to help keep balanced
oh and diet and work outs are key

[PowerliftWill]

1) Why are you going up to 750 mg/ test week? I suggest go back down to 500/week. Additional test isnt going to increase as much as you think, just more of it will aromatize into estrogen which is why gyno is flaring up for u. a (AI) will slow the conversion, but u still need estrogen for gains, thats why they say it hampers ur gains. A SERM will block the receptor at the site, but not block the conversion process. a low dose nolva (10mg day) would be good also instead of the AI (with the lowered dose of test you wont need it)
2)Dont add tren , especially since its ur 3rd cycle of pure test no need for the binding power of tren. Tren is very potent and strong binding, and will wear out the receptors thats why its A) expensive, and B) it works. You should add a different compound depending on what you want to accomplish but definately hold of on tren.
3)Dont go from 750/week to 250/week, stay at a even keel. Although 250mg/week is greater than a TRT dose, the drop in dosage will be to fast for your body to compensate and estro-related sides will increase due to the increased conversion and such.
FYI *to cover my ass :P* you do run a elevated risk of having HRT(cuz ur young, and can cripple ur natural test) as u get older because you cant produce anything naturally. Make sure your PCT is squared away, and wouldnt hurt to throw some HCG in there to help keep balanced
oh and diet and work outs are key

Thanks for the info guys. Lemonada please elaborate on how tren downgrades androgen receptors...my impression was that androgen receptors do not get downgraded. And have found several studies and boards saying that they ONLY upregulate. The cause of steroids eventually losing there effect after a certain amount of weeks is because of completely different issues.

Nolva is out of the question since I need to try and shrink the gyno not just stop it from getting worse. An AI would suit me better. Ordered amiridex and will order letro if adex does not work too well.

As for adding another compound to make up for the AI inhibition of gains, the main reason I opted for tren is because of the lean gains that I miss after bloating like hell from this cyp, aggression, and of course the strength. I definitely want to give it a shot, but im fully aware its in a whole different ball park than test in terms of sides and respect it because of that. Not something i wan to blindly dive into although ive researched it for a few years now.

[Lemonada8]

Nolva will "suffocate' the gyno from the xcess estrogen which will shrink it. the AI will stop estrogen from forming. They both will help.

as for the tren , it will shut down your HPTA. The test u have with it helps keep ur body fuctioning normally. It down regulates the gene expression in the anterior Pitituary gland (LH, FSH, etc) which controls test production. Granted most studies with tren have been on either cattle or fish but they are extremely alike in their reactions to tren.

Being 22, you need to be careful because you havent reached full maturity yet. your pit is still workin hard and to try to pause it for a cycle is playing dangerously. at least theres HRT and TRT so you can be Just fine, w/o no test production :/..

also, do you want a family? decreasing your HPTA severely hampers ur sperm production. You will want to add some HCG in there to keep your testes fully fuctioning then when ur natty FSH comes, spermatogensis typically restarts

[scotty51312]

^^ nolva definitley shouldn't be out of the question and is very effective at gyno reversal

[PowerliftWill]

Nolva will "suffocate' the gyno from the xcess estrogen which will shrink it. the AI will stop estrogen from forming. They both will help.

as for the tren , it will shut down your HPTA. The test u have with it helps keep ur body fuctioning normally. It down regulates the gene expression in the anterior Pitituary gland (LH, FSH, etc) which controls test production. Granted most studies with tren have been on either cattle or fish but they are extremely alike in their reactions to tren.

Being 22, you need to be careful because you havent reached full maturity yet. your pit is still workin hard and to try to pause it for a cycle is playing dangerously. at least theres HRT and TRT so you can be Just fine, w/o no test production :/..

also, do you want a family? decreasing your HPTA severely hampers ur sperm production. You will want to add some HCG in there to keep your testes fully fuctioning then when ur natty FSH comes, spermatogensis typically restarts

Thanks for the heads up and concern, good looking out.

I know tren shuts you down pretty harsh, but I at least want to see how I react to it. Especially when it's a decent time use it. of course ill keep my test around 250mg so it's more than enough exogenous test to keep my libido up and running if I add tren. I want to keep tren sides to a minimum, and i've read numerous threads with people saying low dose test with tren helps lessen the sides. The biggest thing is I don't wan to have to run an AI. Unfortunately to hault gyno I have to but if I can reduce it's size before I add tren and drop the test dosage to 250mg, I would avoid much if any aromatization.

I hate the high BP from aromatization. very uncomfortable, not to mention moon face and bloating sucks. Next time ill know never to go ocer 500mg test in a bulking cycle.

[PowerliftWill]

^^ nolva definitley shouldn't be out of the question and is very effective at gyno reversal

Nolva? Please show me some evidence on how nolva can reverse gyno. I know it can prevent it but i've never heard of nolva for reversing gyno. Letro and other AI's are suited for that...

[scotty51312]

From gynocomastia.org

"Many physicians treat gynecomastia by lowering a man's estrogen levels with the drug tamoxifen , which is better known as a treatment and preventive therapy for breast cancer. In a letter to the British Medical Journal published in August, Dr. Hamed Khan, of Nottingham City Hospital in England, reported that up to 80% of gynecomastia patients respond well to tamoxifen. Although he concedes that more research is needed, Khan said several small studies of gynecomastia patients taking tamoxifen had shown "extremely positive" results, with few side effects. "

There's your evidence

[PowerliftWill]

From gynocomastia.org

"Many physicians treat gynecomastia by lowering a man's estrogen levels with the drug tamoxifen , which is better known as a treatment and preventive therapy for breast cancer. In a letter to the British Medical Journal published in August, Dr. Hamed Khan, of Nottingham City Hospital in England, reported that up to 80% of gynecomastia patients respond well to tamoxifen. Although he concedes that more research is needed, Khan said several small studies of gynecomastia patients taking tamoxifen had shown "extremely positive" results, with few side effects. "

There's your evidence

Post the exact link.... this is the first link on google I found when i typed in gynocomastia.org. It's the only one spelled correctly too.http://www.gynocomastia.org/

[scotty51312]

https://www.gynecomastia.org/content...ws_article.htm

[PowerliftWill]

From gynocomastia.org

"Many physicians treat gynecomastia by lowering a man's estrogen levels with the drug tamoxifen , which is better known as a treatment and preventive therapy for breast cancer. In a letter to the British Medical Journal published in August, Dr. Hamed Khan, of Nottingham City Hospital in England, reported that up to 80% of gynecomastia patients respond well to tamoxifen. Although he concedes that more research is needed, Khan said several small studies of gynecomastia patients taking tamoxifen had shown "extremely positive" results, with few side effects. "

There's your evidence

This doesn't prove it reverses gyno. It just says they responded well. It could just mean it stopped gyno from progressing. IDK tho

[scotty51312]

keep researching. more info out there

[PowerliftWill]

keep researching. more info out there

will do bro. the biggest thing for me right now is getting my E2 levels down...it's killing my appetite. Like its a full time job trying to shovel down 3000 cals right now. No motovation to eat at all unless its shittier fatty foods plus crappy digestion. So i've actually lost some weight....food really is the most important part of lifting even with AAS. Not to mentiion my sleep is shitty. Kinda hard to fall asleep.

IDK what happened at the start of the cycle I was hungry as hell now its almost makes me sick trying to eat chicken and rice

Definitely wont be adding tren so no worries there...my source ran out.

All in all, have had a shitty few days especially since i had to cuts deads short today because my indigestion made me feel like i was going to shit myself.

WTF is going on