New Member
im 6 weeks into a test cyp 500/week cycle. my first cycle, training 4 years natty, 6'2, 213, 9-10%bf
1-8 test cyp - 500mg/week
6-8 hcg 700iu twice/week
6-8 nolva dex 20mg/day. adex .25/day
weeks 8-10- 250iu hcg e3d + .25 adex/day+ 20mg nolva
week 10-14 - nolva/ clomid 20/50 mg/day
what do you think????
American Psycho
I would run that cycle longer run it till 12 weeks.
Member
I would have started the hcg after 2-3 weeks into the cycle at 250iu per week and up the dose to 1500-2500iu twice a week for two weeks after the last test injection.
Knowledgeable Member
^^ WHy would you up the dose of HCG? i have never seen that....
I would say stay at 250iu 2x week thruout cycle till halfway thru pct
why only a 8 week cycle for test c?
and ur PCT is strange...
i'd say:
1-15(at least 12 but better if 15) test c 500mg/week
then 4 week PCT of Nolva at 40/40/20/20
HCG week 4 - week 17 at 250iu 2x a week
Last edited by Lemonada8; 04-01-2011 at 12:00 AM.
Member
It's very common to increase the dosage right after the cycle and I'd do the test cycle for only 10-weeks imo.
Here's some more info on hcg:
HCG: human chorionic gonadotropin
With this in mind prudent use of HCG is DURING a cycle.
HCG can be taken either IM or sub Q in the fat and yes you can mix it with your oils.
Take it at 500iu's every 3rd or 4th day while on cycle.
This does nothing with regard to inhibition of the hypothalamus and pituitary. Rather it acts like LH, and causes the testicles to produce testosterone just as if LH were present. It is useful then for avoiding testicular atrophy during the cycle. The best dosing method is to use small amounts frequently: 500 IU per day is sufficient, and 1000 IU may optionally be used. The amount may be given as a single daily dose or divided into two doses. Administration may be intramuscular or subcutaneous. More is not better: too much HCG can result in downregulation of the LH receptors in the testes, and is therefore counterproductive. Overdosing of HCG can also result in gynecomastia. Athlete should iniect 5000 IU every 5 days. Since the testosterone level, as explained, remains considerably elevated for several days, it is unnecessary to inject HCG more than once every 5 days. The relative dose is at the discretion of the athlete and should be determined based on the duration of his previous steroid intake and on the strength of the various steroid compounds. Athletes who take steroids for more than three months and athletes who use primarily the highly androgenic steroids such as Androlic, Sustanon 250, Cypionate, Dianabol (D-bol) etc. should take a relatively high dosage. The effective dosage for athletes is usually 2000-5000 IU per injection and should, as already mentioned, be injected every 5 days. HCG should only be taken for a 4 weeks maximum.
Manufacturer: Bharat Serums & Vaccines Limited, India
Pharmaceutical name: Human Chorionic Gonadotropin, highly purified
Pack: 5000iu vial & solution
HCG is not an anabolic/androgenic steroid but a natural protein hormone which develops in the placenta of a pregnant woman. HCG is formed in the placenta immediately after nidation. It has luteinizing characteristics since it is quite similar to the luteinizing hormone LH in the anterior pituitary gland. During the first 6-8 weeks of a pregnancy the formed HCG allows for continued production of estrogens and gestagens in the yellow bodies (corpi luteum). Later on, the placenta itself produces these two hormones.
Take your 250iu twice weekly, the day after each of your test injections. IF PROBLEMS……
HCG is manufactured from the urine of pregnant women since it is exereted in unchanged form from the blood via the woman's urine, passing through the kidneys. The commercially available HCG is sold as a dry substance and can be used both in men and women. In women injectable HCG allows for owlation since it influences the last stages of the development of the ovum, thus stimulating ovulation. It also helps produce estrogens and yellow bodies. The fact that exogenous HCG has characteristics almost identical to those of the luteinizing hormone (LH) which, as mentioned, is produced in the hypophysis, makes HCG so very interesting for athletes. In a man the luteinizing hormone stimulates the Leydig's cells in the testes; this in turn stimulates production of androgenic hormones (testosterone). For this reason athletes use injectable HCG to increase the testosterone production.
HCG is often used in combination with anabolic/androgenic steroids during or after treatment. As mentioned, oral and injectable steroids cause a negative feedback after a certain level and duration of usage. A signal is sent to the hypothalamohypophysial testicular axis since the steroids give the hypothalamus an incorrect signal. The hypothalamus, in turn, signals the hypophysis to reduce or stop the production of FSH (follicle stimulating hormone) and of LH. Thus, the testosterone production decreases since the testosterone-producing Leydig's cells in the testes, due to decreased LH, are no longer sufficiently stimulated. Since the body usually needs a certain amount of time to get its testosterone production going again, the athlete, after discontinuing steroid compounds, experiences a difficult transition phase which often goes hand in hand with a considerable loss in both strength and muscle mass. Administering HCG directly after steroid treatment helps to reduce this condition because HCG increases the testosterone production in the testes very quickly and reliably. In the event of testicular atrophy caused by megadoses and very long periods of usage, HCG also helps to quickly bring the testes back to their original condition (size). Since occasional injections of HCG during steroid intake can avoid a testicular atrophy, many athletes use HCG for two to three weeks in the middle of their steroid treatment. It is often observed that during this time the athlete makes his best progress with respect to gains in both strength and muscle mass. The reasons for this is clear. On the one hand, by taking HCG the athlete's own testosterone level immediately jumps up and, on the other hand, a large concentration of anabolic substances in the blood is induced by the steroids. Many bodybuilders, powerlifters, and weightlifters report a lower sex drive at the end of a difficult workout cycle, immediately before or after a competition, and especially toward the end of a steroid treatment. Athletes who have often taken steroids in the past usually accept this fact since they know that it is a temporary condition. Those, however who are on the juice all year round, who might suffer psychological consequences or who would perhaps risk the breakup of a relationship because of this should consider this drawback when taking HCG in regular intervals. A reduced libido and spermatogenesis due to steroids in most cases, can be successfully cured by treatment with HCG.
Most athletes, however, use HCG at the end of a treatment in order to avoid a "crash," that is, to achieve the best possible transition into "natural training." A precondition, however, is that the steroid intake or dosage be reduced slowly and evenly before taking HCG. Although HCG causes a quick and significant increase of the endogenic plasmatestosterone level, unfortunately it is not a perfect remedy to prevent the loss of strength and mass at the end of a steroid treatment. The athlete will only experience a delayed re-adjustment, as has often been observed. Although HCG does stimulate endogenous testosterone production, it does not help in reestablishing the normal hypothalamic/pituitary testicular axis. The hypothalamus and pituitary are still in a refractory state after prolonged steroid usage, and remain this way while HCG is being used, because the endogenous testosterone produced as a result of the exogenous HCG represses the endogenous LH production. Once the HCG is discontinued, the athlete must still go through a re-adjustment period. This is merely delayed by the HCG use. For this reason experienced athletes often take Clomid and Clenbuterol following HCG intake or they immediately begin another steroid treatment. Some take HCG merely to get off the "steroids" for at least two to three weeks.
Many bodybuilders, unfortunately, are still of the opinion that HCG helps them become harder while preparing for a competion by breaking down subcutaneous fat so that indentations and vascularity are better exposed. The HCG package insert states clearly that HCG has no known effect of fat mobilization, appetite or sense of hunger, or body fat distribution. HCG has not been demonstrated to be effective adjunctive therapy in the treatment of obesity, it does not increase fat losses beyond that resulting from caloric restriction.
Athlete should iniect 5000 IU every 5 days. Since the testosterone level, as explained, remains considerably elevated for several days, it is unnecessary to inject HCG more than once every 5 days. The relative dose is at the discretion of the athlete and should be determined based on the duration of his previous steroid intake and on the strength of the various steroid compounds. Athletes who take steroids for more than three months and athletes who use primarily the highly androgenic steroids such as Androlic, Sustanon 250, Cypionate, Dianabol (D-bol) etc. should take a relatively high dosage. The effective dosage for athletes is usually 2000-5000 IU per injection and should, as already mentioned, be injected every 5 days. HCG should only be taken for a 4 weeks maximum.
If HCG is taken by male athletes over many weeks and in high dosages, it is possible that the testes will respond poorly to a later HCG intake and a release of the body's own LH. This could result in a permanent inadequate gonadal function. Cycles on the HCG should be kept down to around 3 weeks at a time with an off cycle of at least a month in between. For example, one might use the HCG for 2 or 3 weeks in the middle of a cycle, and for 2 or 3 weeks at the end of a cycle. It has been speculated that the prolonged use of HCG could permanently, repress the body's own production of gonadotropins. This is why short cycles are the best way to go.
HCG can in part cause side effects similar to those of injectable testosterone. A higher testosterone production also goes hand in hand with an elevated estrogen level which could result in gynecomastia. This could manifest itself in a temporary growth of breasts or reinforce already existing breast growth in men. Farsighted athletes thus combine HCG with an antiestrogen. Male athletes also report more frequent erections and an inereased sexual desire. In high doses it can cause acne vulgaris and the storing of minerals and water. The last point must especially be observed since the water retention which is possible through the use of HCG could give the muscle system a puffy and watery appearance. Athletes who have already increased their endogenous testosterone level by taking Clomid and intend subsequently to take HCG could experience considerable water retention and distinct feminization symptoms (gynecomastia, tendency toward fat deposits on the hips). This is due to the fact that high testosterone leads to a high conversion rate to estrogens. In very young athletes HCG, like anabolic steroids, can cause an early stunting of growth since it prematurely closes the epiphysial growth plates. Mood swings and high blood pressure can also be attributed to the intake of HCG. HCG is also suitable as "over bridge" doping before a competition with doping controls.
HCG's form of administration is also unusual. The substance choriongonadotropin is a white powdery freeze-dried substance which is usually used as a compress. Based on the low structural stability of this compress it can easily fall apart, thus giving the impression of a reduced volume. This is, however, insignificant since there is neither a loss in effect nor a loss of substance. Each package, for each HCG ampule, includes another ampule with an injection solution containing isotonic sodium chloride. This liquid, after both ampules have been opened in a sterile manner, is injected into the HCG ampule and mixed with the dried substance. The solution is then ready for use and should be injected intramuscularly. If only part of the substance is injected the residual solution should be stored in the refrigerator. It is not necessary to store the unmixed HCG in the refrigerator; however, it should be kept out of light and below a temperature of 25C. HCG is a relatively expensive compound.
Knowledgeable Member
Hmm first time ive heard that (increasing it right after a cycle, esp when doin it throughout the cycle) Imma have to look into this further. thanks!
Member
HCG during the cycle just helps keep your balls the same size and a short burst at the end of the cycle helps getting them back online along with the PCT follow up.
New Member
there is some conflicting information here, im slightly confused. it says" Athlete should iniect 5000 IU every 5 days. Since the testosterone level, as explained, remains considerably elevated for several days, it is unnecessary to inject HCG more than once every 5 days" yet it says : "Take your 250iu twice weekly, the day after each of your test injections."
unless it means 250iu twice a week during then the 5000 every 5 days after?? but that would be a total of more then 4 weeks on as it suggests the limit is, no?
heres the thing, im 6 weeks in, originally planned to use it only at the end of my cycle, 5000 iu every 3 days for first week after last shot, then 2500iu every 5 days for the next 2 shots, then follow up with clomid, nolva... that was my original plan but i keep hearing a small dose while on cycle is good????
Knowledgeable Member
its assuming the athlete is not using AAS and only using the HCG to boost test.
New Member
i went with 500 ius every 3 days started at week 7. im niow week 9 and i ran out of test and being my first cycle im going to end it at week 9 here. i want to see how my body comes back online, im a little worried about how crappy pct will feel, and so once i know what to expect ill go with probably a 12 weeker next round, which wont be for a good 7 -8 months. so i started at 500iu E3D now im doing 300IU every other day, feels a little more consistant to me. anyways ill continue this till when? when i start clomid/nolva? or carry it into it? whats your opinons??
also i read conflicting info on pct start times, 2 weeks after last shot or 1 week? opinons?
thanks.
Knowledgeable Member
Carry HCG into your PCT.Originally Posted by gymbob
There are no conflicting info on PCT start times. Every AAS has a different life span (active biological life) in your body and you start your PCT based on that specific information. What does your cycle consist of in terms of gear anyway?
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