Pre-workout routines

[needsome]

So I'm curious to what you guys do or take before you workout. I take a preworkout drink, but its not quite up to par. All it really does is make me shaky and not as pumped as I used to get. I usually ride a bike for a couple miles before I jump on the weights so that I'm already warm. Any suggestions on what I can take/do before I lift? Thanks in advance.

[Jerseystepup]

Cellucore C4 extreme on the way to the gym... once i get there i fill my shaker cup with 4 scoops of xtend bcaa's... 10 mins of light warmup cardio like walking, or the bike... then i lift.

[RaZr]

IMO Cellucor kind of blows, I use one scoop of Jack3d for a little stim effect and 2 scoops of Purple Wrath on my way to the gym, I also sip on 15g of 4:1:1 BCAA unflavored during my workout, yum. I warm up with 30% of the the weight im going to use for 12 then 40% for 12 then 50% for 8 and then I jump to my working sets.

[Jerseystepup]

What does the purple wrath have in it?? jack3d and cellucors both have the same stims no? caffeine and 1,3 dimethyl (geranium).. just that c4 has a higher dosage of creatine and arginine, and contains beta alinine.. Do you buy your bcaa's in bulk?

[Forthelooks]

I simply used jack3d for a bit of a buzz, then i start my warm up then lift.

I try to keep it simple.

[needsome]

right now I'm using Ravage. I'll never buy it again. And during my workout I drink a shaker of size on. My stomach gets so messed up though I usually end up having to run to the shitter during and after my working. I hate switching up my supplement routine because it takes so long for my stomach to get used to stuff.

[RaZr]

What does the purple wrath have in it?? jack3d and cellucors both have the same stims no? caffeine and 1,3 dimethyl (geranium).. just that c4 has a higher dosage of creatine and arginine, and contains beta alinine.. Do you buy your bcaa's in bulk?

Wrath is EAA, beta alanine and citrulline maelate. I also take my creatine post workout

[dsldsl1980]

Jacked 3d 3 scoops Crazy pump and focus.

[Turkish Juicer]

Here is my PWO supplementation routine, 20-30 mins. before I hit the gym with 300 ml of no-sugar added cherry juice

6-12 gr of BCAA (depends on muscle group I will be working out that day)
5 gr L. Glutamine
1 serving of Sci-Fit's Beta-Alanine
1 serving of Now Nutrition's L. Arginine

I take a serving of Kre-Alkalyn post workout along with 30 gr of whey isolate and 350 ml of grape juice.

[Jerseystepup]

Jacked 3d 3 scoops Crazy pump and focus.

Crazy pump?? What other preworkouts can you compare your results too? How much arginine do you think that your getting in 3 scoops of jack3d?

[pebble]

In my opinion, 99% of supplements blow. No, make that 99.9% of supplements blow. First off there is no control over what is in the powder, so you don't even know if you are getting what they claim you are. Second there is no science behind most of them that can show that they work. If there is science that shows a supplemented group had a larger effect size than the control, they usually lack proof of mechanism of action or the ability of the supplement to reach the target site and act on the rate limiting step of the process it is trying to alter.

With that said here is some science about why should keep to the basics of CHO + PRO (0.8g/kg : 0.4g/kg) pre workout.

First thing we want to do is minimize catabolic response - reduce cortisol (breaks down tissue to release energy - sometimes muscle).


Not that more cortisol one has in their body the less muscle mass they are expected to have.

During RT cortisol rises, you can defend against this with CHO (causes insulin spike which cause a shift from catabolism to anabolism therefore less muscle break down).

This is RT of 3 sets of 10 reps for 8 exercise (each a primary movement pattern). Notice that Cortisol Rises.

But if you take some CHO....

... You can see that it stays relatively low throughout RT and into recovery.

Second, you should be drinking CHO and protein (or essential amino acids or mixed amino acids - but know the response they elicit compared to traditional whey (EAA 8-10g= 20g Whey, MAA 12-15 = 20g whey)).

Notice that the Combo of CHO and an amino acid promote greatest levels of protein synthesis.

And some other information to drive home the point:
Effect of individual treatments on protein synthesis (above resting values)

• hyperinsulinemia +50%
• resistance exercise +100%
• increased aa availability +150%
• resistance ex + aa avail +200%
• resist ex + aa avail + CHO +400%

- from various Rasmussen studies

The timing of the shake is also important. You should be drinking said shake pre workout to maximize results.

There is a drastic difference between levels of protein synthesis between the groups, and the most favourable outcome is pre exercise.

[awms]

200mg of caffeine or an nrg drink....some times Il take 2-3 8mg ephedrine if Im feel tired and its leg day or chest day.

[Turkish Juicer]

In my opinion, 99% of supplements blow. No, make that 99.9% of supplements blow. First off there is no control over what is in the powder, so you don't even know if you are getting what they claim you are. Second there is no science behind most of them that can show that they work. If there is science that shows a supplemented group had a larger effect size than the control, they usually lack proof of mechanism of action or the ability of the supplement to reach the target site and act on the rate limiting step of the process it is trying to alter.

I would certainly agree upon a rather more humble assertion that some supplements don't work, or even majority of them don't. When you ornately claim ''99.9% of supplements blow'', you will have to do better than posting the same charts to multiple threads on a forum, because that's all you have been doing. Moreover, it is those charts showing that certain dosages of EAAs, MMAs and the response they elicit compared to traditional whey were in action to reduce cortisol in these studies, so isn't it an oxymoron for you to say 99.9% of supplements blow?

I am constanly reading more case studies about some of the supplements, appropriately performed by highly credible and experienced scientific circles that include globally recognized sports universities and independent pharma research institutes that are neither supplement producers nor their studies were funded by the supplement industry.

I don't think that most people here are interested in receiving hyperbolic statements and crude generalizations about one thing or another, at least I know that I don't...

[AdamWest]

30 minutes pre workout I mix 5g creatine, 4g beta alanine, and 200mg caffeine with crystal light. During my workout, I drink a shake with 45g dextrose, 1 scoop protein, and 10g BCAA's. Usually, I'll warmup with 10 mins on the eleptical. Have seen great results with this routine. Also, it's cheaper, and way more effective than buying any preworkout supplement.

[Turkish Juicer]

30 minutes pre workout I mix 5g creatine, 4g beta alanine, and 200mg caffeine with crystal light. During my workout, I drink a shake with 45g dextrose, 1 scoop protein, and 10g BCAA's. Usually, I'll warmup with 10 mins on the eleptical. Have seen great results with this routine. Also, it's cheaper, and way more effective than buying any preworkout supplement.

1. Several studies indicate, regular intake of Caffeine supplementation destroys Creatine metabolism in the muscle cell so it is not a good idea to have a PWO routine where you take both at the same time. My suggestion would be Caffein before WO and Creatine after WO (post-WO Creatine supplementation is strongly adviced as opposed to other methods of intake by supplemental nutrition experts). This way, you would have the best of two supps.

2. Unless the protein you are taking is a fast-acting whey isolate, it won't help with muscle breakdown when you take it during your workout. Whey concentrates should be ideally taken about 1 hr before for a succesful PWO supplementation workout as studies reveal, since they are rather slow acting proteins and are metabolised in a prolonged manner.

3. 40 gr of simple sugar intake during WO is a scientifically proven method for fighting catabolism, so those extra 5 gr is probably unnecessary.

[pebble]

I would certainly agree upon a rather more humble assertion that some supplements don't work, or even majority of them don't. When you ornately claim ''99.9% of supplements blow'', you will have to do better than posting the same charts to multiple threads on a forum, because that's all you have been doing. Moreover, it is those charts showing that certain dosages of EAAs, MMAs and the response they elicit compared to traditional whey were in action to reduce cortisol in these studies, so isn't it an oxymoron for you to say 99.9% of supplements blow?

I am constanly reading more case studies about some of the supplements, appropriately performed by highly credible and experienced scientific circles that include globally recognized sports universities and independent pharma research institutes that are neither supplement producers nor their studies were funded by the supplement industry.

I don't think that most people here are interested in receiving hyperbolic statements and crude generalizations about one thing or another, at least I know that I don't...

Ok. How about we list of the supplements that do work. LEts start with some vitamins and minerals that have shown positive effects: Vit C,D, and E, iron, calcium and well a multivitamin to covers all bases if someone is not eating a proper diet. Caffeine works for endurance (time to exhaustion and reduced RPE), but no strong science shows it has a positive effect on RT. Electrolyte replacement has been shown to keep membrane excitability at optimal levels, but this won’t happen until about an hour in of endurance training. Just about everyone knows creatines importance in providing more intramuscular phosphates that can be used quickly to restore ATP. Hmm, that’s about it. Well we could talk about bicarobnate and its ability to help buffer the disassociation of H2O into H+ and HO- and pH changes that elicit a literally shut down of the ability of the muscle to contract. But is it really worth it? Bicarobante causes GI issues. And who can really do much when their stomach is turning over.

And you bringing up case studies? Sure, they may give reason to invest a little money to start a credible study, but to start basing recommendations of off case studies is careless. Case studies are what are used to give credibility to supplements. From a recent conversation I had with a former employee of muscltech, BP (head of marketing and scientific development) The followering was the takeaway points. They toss money at universities and studies because they will always get the results they want without having to ask. Schools and organizations always comeback for money. And on top of that they always have the advantage of the most powerful DRUG on the market. It works for anything it is being tested for. PLACEBO. Their supplements might work, but that’s not their concern, because it’s not regulated. They make products to sell money and do a little research so people are tricked into buying them. They pay a Dr. $100,000 a year to be a “consultant” and offer is recommendations on the products. Buy the hype, someone has to, but it will not be me.

And just to be clear I never made a claim. I prefaced my entire post with in my opinion. I do stand by my statement that in my opinion 99.9% of supplements do not work. I will continue to post the science behind the reasons for my opinions.

By the way isn't it a little hypocritical to state:

40 gr of simple sugar intake during WO is a scientifically proven method for fighting catabolism, so those extra 5 gr is probably unnecessary.

. At least I provide the research to back up my recommendations. With all theresearch you have done you should have been able to notice that the most recommendations are based off body weight and not generalized #s. Even at that point, unless there is a ceiling level for the supplement (creatine) one has to workout what’s best for them because of intra-individual considerations – especially with CHO due to its hopefully response on the insulin cascade which is incrediblly variable from person to person (dose-response relationship).

EDIT:

I won't respond to this thread any more because it is Cleary in the wrong forum. But if it is started in another I will continue this conversation with you. Just PM where it was moved to.

[mtlbiceps]

Creatine 30 min pre workout and a coffee on the drive to the gym. I like to keep things simple as well. Not to say that there are not half decent products that can be taken before, but I've always kept with this simple routine and it keeps me arriving at the gym every morning.


MTLBiceps

[LatissimusaurousRex]

I take a monster NO-supp-induced dump

[dirtybrd]

One scoop of Jack3d or Superpump, I like the Jack3d for its very few ingredients(less fillers) but get a better pump off Superpump. I switch back and forth when I finish a bottle.