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  1. #1
    Flier's Avatar
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    No PCT....!?!?!?

    I have been talking to 3 of my gym buddies regarding PCT.
    They are all multiple cycle users, 2 of them rather heavy users, 20 years.
    1 a national competitor.

    They are all off right now, getting ready to get back on. Multiple stacks, all the goodies.

    What seriously confuses me, is none of them have ever used PCT....

    And they feel great, never loss of sex drive, and they hold on to their muscle really well. The 2 biggest guys say they just come off, and go natural, one of them using Trib...yes, trib..wtf?
    The other guy say he only had 1 problem which was with Prop., but the long esters, let the HPTA slowly restore itself while the ester diminishes. (in his experience)

    I know them well. They are not lying.

    I just donīt get it.
    This does not by any means change my own PCT coming up, but it makes me wonder what PCT really accomplishes.

    Is PCT merely a little kickstart to something which will happen naturally anyway?. And if you are one of the unfortunate, if you are shut down, you will be shut down, PCT or not?

    Are we this different?...that someone can be cycling for 20 years without PCT and be fine, when others do 1 cycle with PCT and get fkt up?

    Feels like there are a lot of horror stories on this forum. Is that only because we donīt hear about the 100 times more "success stories"?

    Vets, others?

  2. #2
    tony1032 is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by First Timer 42 View Post
    I have been talking to 3 of my gym buddies regarding PCT.
    They are all multiple cycle users, 2 of them rather heavy users, 20 years.
    1 a national competitor.

    They are all off right now, getting ready to get back on. Multiple stacks, all the goodies.

    What seriously confuses me, is none of them have ever used PCT....

    And they feel great, never loss of sex drive, and they hold on to their muscle really well. The 2 biggest guys say they just come off, and go natural, one of them using Trib...yes, trib..wtf?
    The other guy say he only had 1 problem which was with Prop., but the long esters, let the HPTA slowly restore itself while the ester diminishes. (in his experience)

    I know them well. They are not lying.

    I just donīt get it.
    This does not by any means change my own PCT coming up, but it makes me wonder what PCT really accomplishes.

    Is PCT merely a little kickstart to something which will happen naturally anyway?. And if you are one of the unfortunate, if you are shut down, you will be shut down, PCT or not?

    Are we this different?...that someone can be cycling for 20 years without PCT and be fine, when others do 1 cycle with PCT and get fkt up?

    Feels like there are a lot of horror stories on this forum. Is that only because we donīt hear about the 100 times more "success stories"?

    Vets, others?
    I see/hear the same thing time and time again. The only true way to prove full recovery is bloodwork, so they may be incorrect despite how they feel. Fact remains PCT is critical, and neglecting it is only neglecting your own well-being. I'd take these stories with a grain of salt and stick to what the experts suggest.

    On a side note, I know a few dudes who prefer to taper than to take additional substances - to each his own.
    Last edited by tony1032; 04-04-2011 at 09:45 AM. Reason: typo

  3. #3
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    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by First Timer 42 View Post
    Is PCT merely a little kickstart to something which will happen naturally anyway?. And if you are one of the unfortunate, if you are shut down, you will be shut down, PCT or not?
    this, theres going to be down time, pct reduces this time

    and i think most of the time, recovery is an option(non permanent shutdown)

  4. #4
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    I have a friend who used low dosage test only cycles twice a year for ten years to develop 20 inch arms and never once did PCT. I questioned him thoroughly about any potential issues, and he denies having any at all.

  5. #5
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    I think its old school thinking, today we have the chemicles available to us to "jump start" the hpta and couse no adverse effects, so it only makes sense to use them

  6. #6
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    Anything (pct) that would help you recover faster and help keep some gains is well worth it to me. Personally i would never run a cycle without pct.

  7. #7
    Flier's Avatar
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    Makes a lot of sense to me as well, to jumpstart testies with HCG and PCT meds to jumpstart the pituitary.
    I have also heard stories of PCT meds stimulating the pituitary to produce more LH than it previously did, and the pituitary kept up the higher LH value....now thatīs really exiting.

    I have Clomid, Tamox, and Torem at hand for my PCT. Still not decided on how to run.
    If I run the classic Clomid/Tamox stack, I will do 50mg Clomid for 4 weeks, and 20mg Tamox for 6 weeks (40 first 2 weeks).
    But I would really like to use the Torem, Iīve read so much good stuff about it....less toxic, less sides.
    I just canīt find any info on what to stack with it. I read that itīs very similar to Tamox, so that stack wouldnīt make sense.
    It seems if I would use Torem it would be Torem only, 6 weeks 60mg (120 first 2 weeks)

    Any thoughts/experiences?

  8. #8
    SlimJoe is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by pitbulllock View Post
    Anything (pct) that would help you recover faster and help keep some gains is well worth it to me. Personally i would never run a cycle without pct.
    I agree also would be stupid to not run without pct

  9. #9
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    Maybe they're just lying about not using pct for some reason or using hcg after the cycle.

  10. #10
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    This is definitely the old school way of thinking. I have talked to many guys 40+ and they say that the substances we use for pct are garbage and do more harm then good. I have come off with no pct and I have come off using an aggressive pct while using hcg during cycle and I can tell you from experience that I can 100% tell a difference. Hey back in the day research chems were not as easy to come buy probably unless you went down to mexico or something. We have them more easily assessable to us now so more people use them.

  11. #11
    Flier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bjpennnn View Post
    This is definitely the old school way of thinking. I have talked to many guys 40+ and they say that the substances we use for pct are garbage and do more harm then good. I have come off with no pct and I have come off using an aggressive pct while using hcg during cycle and I can tell you from experience that I can 100% tell a difference. Hey back in the day research chems were not as easy to come buy probably unless you went down to mexico or something. We have them more easily assessable to us now so more people use them.
    Good info!
    What do u think of my proposed PCT? Clomid/Tamox or Torem?

    Btw....u look less disturbing than before...hehe

  12. #12
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    I am actually myself trying to figure out a substitute for clomid that works as well. Clomid makes me break out so ****en bad on my back its unreal. I have also been told it makes people emotional as well. But I usually run the 100mg ed clomid for the first 2 weeks with 40mg nolva then the last two weeks drop the dosages in half. With those dosages I still feel like I am on at the gym. Now when I am completely done with pct thats when I start to drag a bit. I will use all the tools in my arsenal hop on the creatine, bump up the bcaa's anything that will help me and keep me motivated usually start to incorporate the pre workout drinks that are full of caffeine and full of muscle volumizers.

  13. #13
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    i have never done PCT but I am on TRT........

  14. #14
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    my dad was a pro bb and he didnt know about pct ,or proper pct . or ai , the only thing he new about was nolvadex . hes 57 . i think this is relatively new . like 20 yrs

  15. #15
    dsldsl1980 is offline Associate Member
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    I will add to the fact that the of the people who introduced me to this not a single one uses PCT. Odd...

  16. #16
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    I have heard very similar accounts from older users recommending no pct, but the other users make valid points as to why this could be. I would check out swiftos PCT section, he recommends using torem in place of clomid. I am going with this recommendation for my upcoming cycle. My PCT is as follows:

    Nolva 40/40/20/20
    Torem 160/160/80/80

  17. #17
    Flier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. Cole View Post
    I have heard very similar accounts from older users recommending no pct, but the other users make valid points as to why this could be. I would check out swiftos PCT section, he recommends using torem in place of clomid. I am going with this recommendation for my upcoming cycle. My PCT is as follows:

    Nolva 40/40/20/20
    Torem 160/160/80/80
    That is kinda the PCT I had in min for a while as well.
    Iīm gonna confer with Swifto when my PCT is coming up.
    Iīve read a lot of articles lately that Torem and Tamox are very similar in action, so why stack them?

    Re. your PCT. You are frontloading both, one is enough.
    And your Torem dose is high 120/60 is recommended.

  18. #18
    J. Cole's Avatar
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    ouch mistyped 120/60 is what im planning my bad

  19. #19
    J. Cole's Avatar
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    and your saying dont start with the high doses in the first two weeks with both of them?

  20. #20
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    MACHINE5150 is offline "AR's Vanilla Gorilla"
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    Clomid and tamox and stuff like that was next to impossible to find back in the day since most the juice was coming from Mexico (in states anyways) and was sold out of veterinarian clinics as a loop hole and the pharmacies typically didn't carry PCT type meds.. plus why smuggle PCT meds across the border when you only get two times what they cost when you could smuggle four bottles of test and get 8 times the amount you paid for them.. now Mexican stuff is a thing of the past though anyways and with the internet the way it is it is easy to find the proper pct chems.. as stated above only blood work can prove they were recovered properly..

    Clomid makes me break out like a mother fvcker.. i look forward to trying Torem next time around

  21. #21
    Flier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. Cole View Post
    and your saying dont start with the high doses in the first two weeks with both of them?
    Thatīs right.
    And Dr. Scaly also recommends running Tamox 2 weeks past Clomid.....I think it said to prevent an estrogen rebound.
    Donīt know what the case is with Tamox/Tore.
    My PCT is 9 weeks away, so Iīll need to start look at it soon.

  22. #22
    Flier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MACHINE5150 View Post
    Clomid and tamox and stuff like that was next to impossible to find back in the day since most the juice was coming from Mexico (in states anyways) and was sold out of veterinarian clinics as a loop hole and the pharmacies typically didn't carry PCT type meds.. plus why smuggle PCT meds across the border when you only get two times what they cost when you could smuggle four bottles of test and get 8 times the amount you paid for them.. now Mexican stuff is a thing of the past though anyways and with the internet the way it is it is easy to find the proper pct chems.. as stated above only blood work can prove they were recovered properly..

    Clomid makes me break out like a mother fvcker.. i look forward to trying Torem next time around
    Torem by itself?

  23. #23
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    Some guys just have great genetics and can get away with doing stupid cycles, no PCT etc...
    But if you know better, why chance it?

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by bjpennnn View Post
    This is definitely the old school way of thinking. I have talked to many guys 40+ and they say that the substances we use for pct are garbage and do more harm then good. I have come off with no pct and I have come off using an aggressive pct while using hcg during cycle and I can tell you from experience that I can 100% tell a difference. Hey back in the day research chems were not as easy to come buy probably unless you went down to mexico or something. We have them more easily assessable to us now so more people use them.
    Im using liquid stane for the first time during my cycle. what eles do you recommened from ar-r for post cycle ?

  25. #25
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    tamox/clomid.
    Quote Originally Posted by hwy1378 View Post
    Im using liquid stane for the first time during my cycle. what eles do you recommened from ar-r for post cycle ?

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