Does anyone bulk and cut in same test cycle?

[Redial]

I'm wondering if anybody has had success with cycling bulk/cut (like 2weeks and 2weeks) OR doing bulk cycle and then cutting in the end of it, before PCT?


I'm on week 4 of my test-only cycle (450mg/w sust250). I have been eating around 3200-3400kcals from the beginning, with pretty clean diet.

I was 205lbs at the beginning (I had a cut cycle 1-2months earlier, that's why so light weight) and now 4 weeks in I weight 218lbs today.

However, the speed of fat gain is just ridiculous. Before this cycle, I just had my six-pack showing, with a little floppy fat in the lowest abs (Around 11-12%). Now after 4weeks, almost the whole six-pack is missing already lol And I'm actually getting some excess fat on my waist which I can twist and squeeze with my hand And I've been doing 30mins of cardio after every workout 4times a week!

This cycle is 8 weeks total, 2weeks waiting time and then Nolva PCT 2-3weeks.

Would it work to have a short 2weeks cut in the end, weeks 8+9 in example?
I mean very effective low calorie one, like 1700-1800kcal's a day and LOTS of cardio.

Reasons:
- During and after PCT you are always gaining some fat and loosing definition. And after cycle I can't cut for a long time before full recovery and even then it means a lots of muscle loss again.

- While test is still effective, you could run a very low calorie diet without running too catabolic and losing muscle. Right?


What do you think?

[Redial]

Oh, here is a quick list what my diet is about. I don't list all exact grams and calories here now but:

(List is edited as I added closer info)

Breakfast:
- Oatmeal and ~50g berries (strawberry, blueberry etc)
- 1x Banana
- 1x Apple
- 2 slices of dark rye bread with turkey/ham, low-fat cheese and tomato slices
- 50g's of milk protein, shake
- Milk

During day (not all at once of course!):
- 250g of quark/curd with berries once again
- Cashew nuts (~20g)
- Salad, with brown wholemeal pasta, tuna, olive oil, and veggies

Dinner:
- Usually chicken breast with some spicy chili-sauce, and brown rice
- Milk


Evening:
- Recovery drink after workout
- Chicken breast (200grams)
- Cashew nuts (20g)

Before sleep:
- Cottage cheese, tuna and cucumber
- 60grams of milk protein shake with 50/50 water/milk

[dsldsl1980]

Your most likely just retaining water which will go away after cycle

[MBMETC]

Oh, here is a quick list what my diet is about. I don't list all exact grams and calories here now but:

Breakfast:
- Porridge and ~50g berries (strawberry, blueberry etc)
- Banana
- Apple
- 2 rye breads with turkey, low-fat cheese and tomato slices
- 50g's of milk protein, shake
- Milk

During day (not all at once of course!):
- 250g of quark with berries once again
- Cashew nuts (~30g)
- Salad, with brown wholemeal pasta, tuna, olive oil, and veggies
- Milk

Dinner:
- Usually chicken breast with some spicy chili-sauce, and brown rice
- Milk
- bit of crisp bread and low-fat margarine ("butter")

Evening:
- Recovery drink after workout
- Chicken breast (200grams)
- Cashew nuts (30g)

Before sleep:
- Cottage cheese, tuna and cucumber
- 50grams of milk protein shake with 50/50 water/milk

Diet is not clean, a lot of processed carbs, fruit, and dairy. And I'm hard pressed to see 3400 cals unless half are from shakes and dairy.
Sorry but I don't know what quark is.

[Tigershark]

You should rally do bulking first then cut later. If you try to do both you will loose your mind.

[Redial]

Hmm.. processed carbs..? Can you explain..? My diet is free of all artificial add-ons and sweeteners and stuff, that is one of my principles. That's why I use healthy berries to five taste and sweetness, nothing artificial and no sugar at all. (Neither salt)
All carbs come from dark rye bread, veggies, fruit, or brown rice/pasta which I thikn is the best option to take carbs from. (?)

Please give advice if you have ideas how to improve.

Fruits are -> Apple+Banana at morning. I think that is very moderate amount of fruits, and good for health..?

Milk (dairy) is there as an protein source, some say it's perfect, some say it should be limited. I use it about 0,5litres a day.

Quark is.. what is the word you guys use for it (I'm not from states myself), you know the yoghurt like BUT very protein-rich stuff, made from milk...? All bodybuilders like this. I don't remember the correct word.


About the calories.. yes it's correct, minimum of 3200kcals a day. It varies because I use different dinners, with big size rice+chicken dinner it has been 3600kcals some day. Protein shakes (2x) give me around 300-400kcals. I have calculated everything very carefully with computer and I'm sure about it, not the first time doing that. =) Breakfast alone ois 960kcals. Snacks before dinner are 850kcals. Then dinner, evening snacks and the one before bed time.

[Redial]

You should rally do bulking first then cut later. If you try to do both you will loose your mind.

I know.. but you know, at bulking cycle you always gain significant amount of fat. Then PCT and time off before you're fully recovered - it leaves you being "bloaty" for weeks and months. (It's summer coming here too..) Then later you do cutting cycle, and get lean and everything, but obviously size gets a lot smaller and strength too (unless using big amounts of AAS while cutting). It's never good enough.

I was just wondering if all could be combined in one cycle - maybe not so effective gains and not so ripped cutting, but in the end the result could be somehow similar fat% as before cycle, but with more muscle. Right?

Do all of you do bulk cycles full bulk, and cutting cycles then to cut... nobody mixes up?

Way or another.. if this fat keeps coming up this fast, I'll be one big bloat in the end of week 8. I have to change something, tune-up the diet or something but I think it's pretty natural and clean already, nothing sweet or artificial there


p.s. Some of this is water retention of course, makes the definition go away and gives a puffy "smooth" fatty look to triceps etc. Hopefully arimidex limits that now as I started it. But some if it is really a thick "bumpy" fat coming under my skin, nothing big of course (I'm still at least under ~15-16% I guess) but you know what I mean.

[Tlee8769]

Go to the diet section on this site http://forums.steroid.com/forumdispl...DIET-QUESTIONS. there is some really good advice in that section check it out. Good luck with the remainder of your cycle.

[yungone501]

You should rally do bulking first then cut later. If you try to do both you will loose your mind.

I disagree with this based on my experience. You can just easily add muscle while minimizing the addition of bodyfat as the bulk/cut strategy. Its all about just eating what you should have been eating already. Just because a person is bulking or trying add muscle, does not mean this an ideal time to consume pizza or excess calories. Keep your diet simple and clean...thats all it takes. Junk food has NO place in a bodybuilders diet...or any other diet for that matter!

[Herpaderp]

Cutting and bulking would likely cancel each other out and then all you're really doing is lifting/dieting like you normally do.

[yungone501]

Cutting and bulking would likely cancel each other out and then all you're really doing is lifting/dieting like you normally do.

Unless youre preparing for a competition, you can maintain a reasonable bodyfat while bulking and cutting at the same time. I myself STAY around 9%bf. Before switching strategies, between 11-12%. And i dont have to bust my asss in order to lean down, i just stay that way.

[Reed]

Yes its possible with the correct diet.

Like someone already told you the carbs you chose could be better

Less fruits, milk, bread, pasta, butter, etc.

Add fish oil, avocado, sweet potatoes.

Id take out the milk personally. Reduce the fruit servings to one maybe two a day. Maybe one meal with nuts as a fat source, throw in a omega whole egg or two in the morning, fish oil a 2-3x a day, add in a sweet potatoes, different protein sources (fish, beef). This is what I would do...

The diet needs to be completely rearranged if you are looking to lose fat and build muscle. That is what its all about, dieting correctly.

[Reed]

Don't forget cardio timing is important,

As well as training time and where you put certain meals. ex. protein/fat meal, protein/carb etc.

[Redial]

Just because a person is bulking or trying add muscle, does not mean this an ideal time to consume pizza or excess calories. Keep your diet simple and clean...thats all it takes. Junk food has NO place in a bodybuilders diet...or any other diet for that matter!

I agree with this. I have principle not to eat any too processed or unhealthy food, with added artificial compounds - I cook myself and use only best ingredients, I think thats the way a man should eat.

[cro]

exactly if i layed out my diet id be here an hour typing it.no dairy 4 me. thats the worst for bloat.

Diet is not clean, a lot of processed carbs, fruit, and dairy. And I'm hard pressed to see 3400 cals unless half are from shakes and dairy.
Sorry but I don't know what quark is.

[Redial]

THanks for advice, I know this is not a diet section but I guess it won't hurt anybody to have a little chat about this.

Like someone already told you the carbs you chose could be better

Less fruits, milk, bread, pasta, butter, etc.

Add fish oil, avocado, sweet potatoes.

I have 2 fruits in day, one apple and one banana. Both in breakfast where I think the faster carbs are "most ok" if somewhere. Correct?

I have 2 slices of dark rye bread. Is it too much..? Gives me a lot of fiber u know.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't brown pasta/rice actually slower carb than sweet potato? I mean REALLY brown, the pasta is dark brown too. I don't know if you have that sort over there as it differs between countries I guess?

Id take out the milk personally. Reduce the fruit servings to one maybe two a day. Maybe one meal with nuts as a fat source, throw in a omega whole egg or two in the morning, fish oil a 2-3x a day, add in a sweet potatoes, different protein sources (fish, beef). This is what I would do...

I forgot to mention but I do change the dinner, sometimes it's beef + 40grams of that brown pasta, and sometimes it salmon or other fish + pasta.

I also take Omega3 fish oil 1000mg's a day. (maybe add more of this?)

I guess I could reduce the milk intake, and add more turkey/beef/other protein sources instead to balance it better.

The diet needs to be completely rearranged if you are looking to lose fat and build muscle. That is what its all about, dieting correctly.

Exactly what I'm aiming for, adding muscle but as lean as possible. I have done my share of dirty bulking in the past and I don't wanna get that puffy anymore, it's not worth it.

I haven't ever eat so clean as now (in the 8-9years I've been training), but I see there's still things to consider.

I looked few examples in the diet section, but I have to say few of the most popular lean gain examples where pretty weird, there was lots of carbs in the evening, lousy carb sources and loads of artificial sweetners, flavors and stuff. I think that is not good either, maybe not so muscle-wise but for health overall. Those things are toxic.

So afterall, you guys think that it's better to keep steady diet throughout the cycle and try to keep it clean as possible "doing both things at the same time" - more than doing bulk/cut cycling...?

[cro]

dont eat any sweeteners/sugar. just bannanas....

[Redial]

exactly if i layed out my diet id be here an hour typing it.no dairy 4 me. thats the worst for bloat.

That's why I posted a brief listing only, not grams and kcals. It's 3200-3800kcals depending on the dinner.

I guess I could try limiting the milk intake, to see if that helps to have more solid outlook. I just have to up the protein intake from other sources to make it even, milk has loads of protein.

dont eat any sweeteners/sugar. just bannanas....

I can't use any sweeteners because my stomach doesn't handle those. I don't use them at all. I also don't add sugar anywhere, ever. Only the sugar of course that is already hidden in the foods.