Criticism on cycle idea

**gthom47** · 04-17-2011, 08:26 PM

Hey guys im 27, have been lifting for about 3-4 years and have done a cycle before and want some advice on my next one. My first cycle was last year while cutting just did some Var10 70mg a day for 8 weeks followed by 4 weeks Nolva PCT. I have been doing research again as to what would be good for a bulking cycle and came up with this idea, what do you think?

6 week cycle
D-bol- 50mg day weeks 1 & 2
Deca 200- 600mg a day weeks 1-6
PCT- 4 week nolva 40 20 20 10

**Times Roman** · 04-17-2011, 09:50 PM

First, let's finish up with your stats
weight?
height?
bf%?
aas knowledge?

secondly, a first cycle should always be test only so you can gain an understanding of what it is, what the effects are, and how your body responds to it. Test should ALWAYS be the foundation to any stack!

So do that, and skip the orals for now.

just out of curiosity, how's your diet? and before you say it's clean, since almost everybody says that, even though it may not be, you should post it up inthe diet section and let our vets analyze it and give you some constructive criticism.

Good luck!
----Roman

**Blade15** · 04-18-2011, 06:47 AM

Man.. Times Roman.. I always agree with you man... Really... ^^

**Hazard** · 04-18-2011, 06:59 AM

Terrible terrible cycle......

Deca run by itself has been known to cause issues with the libido. Also..... 600mg's/wk for your 1st time running it is just completely not necessary. Lastly..... thats not nearly long enough to see much from the deca. It'll just get going around the 5 week mark.

Test only would be a perfect starting point right now..... 10-12 weeks with a nolva/clomid pct. HCG should also be used as it'll only make recovery easier.

Pretty much agreed with TR

just added a few things.....

**gthom47** · 04-18-2011, 07:55 AM

im a fairly small guy as far as height and weight go
5 foot 7 inches
166 lbs about 13% body fat
i have been using a 5/3/1 program and just finished up my first cycle with it. my lifts are:
squat- 395x10
deadlift- 390x5
bench- 230x4
military- 175x6

i did a lot of research last year and this year on aas and i would like to say i have a pretty decent knowledge about it, but i wouldnt say im an expert in the field.

i agree completely with using test as the basis for my stack, and that was my original plan to do test e or test p with d-bol for the first few weeks, then just run the test for the end and make the cycle 8-12 weeks. my only issue is not being able to find the test.

my diet has been pretty good. cutting i was at 1800cal 190g carbs 180g protein 35g fat. ate things like egg whites, whole wheat toast, peanut butter, chicken, grilled veggies stuff like that. now im starting a very slow clean bulk phase only 300cal above maintenance and am working my way up from 1800-2550 cal over the next couple of weeks. will probably keep the same diet, just adding quantity of food to it.

**Blade15** · 04-18-2011, 09:08 AM

Man,,,,you saying that you have decent knowledge of aas and Dbol and Deca is your choice for cycle????

**usd610** · 04-18-2011, 09:13 AM

To build on blades comment, test prop and d bol? People run test prop so they dont gain water weight, and d bol is notorious for putting on water weight. Kinda cancels out the reasons one would run test prop.

**usd610** · 04-18-2011, 09:15 AM

also, your diet need some help, post it up in the diet section. your carbs were higher than your protein for a cutter? also, you way 166, get in atleast 1.5xBW for protein, 180 is not enough

**gthom47** · 04-18-2011, 12:34 PM

I know about the water retention but d-bol would also give a big boost at the start of the cycle and then the test prop would keep it going and stop the water retention. I saw in doing some research that a cycle idea is dbol to start and then follow with deca to keep the long term gains going but idk how effective and reliable my research is which is why I posted here.

As far as my diet goes I was only doing that low amount of proteins for my cut. For my bulk I'm doing 2250 cal 260g carbs 230 g protein and 65 g fat and that's about 1.4 times my body weight for protein.

**gthom47** · 04-18-2011, 12:37 PM

Meant 2550 cal

**usd610** · 04-18-2011, 12:42 PM

Originally Posted by gthom47

I know about the water retention but d-bol would also give a big boost at the start of the cycle and then the test prop would keep it going and stop the water retention. I saw in doing some research that a cycle idea is dbol to start and then follow with deca to keep the long term gains going but idk how effective and reliable my research is which is why I posted here. Prop wont "stop" the water retention of dbol. Prob is primarily used for a cutting cyle, dbol a buling cycle. Look into compounds such as tbol to run with prob.

As far as my diet goes I was only doing that low amount of proteins for my cut. For my bulk I'm doing 2250 cal 260g carbs 230 g protein and 65 g fat and that's about 1.4 times my body weight for protein.

in bold

**usd610** · 04-18-2011, 12:43 PM

and like i said ur diet needs help. You should never cut protein to cut. you lower your carb intake

**gthom47** · 04-18-2011, 01:34 PM

if i lowered carb intake for my cut i would be eating only like 140g carbs for a cut. seems way to low cause then my body would start running off the protein.

**gthom47** · 04-18-2011, 05:38 PM

besides the point, as far as the cycle goes, since i cant get my hands on real test, what would then be a good combo of orals to use since deca and dbol wouldnt work?

ive also heard of win, tren , and dbol stacked would that be effective?

**Blade15** · 04-19-2011, 03:06 AM

Tren ??? this is your second cycle and you are thinking of win, tren and dbol stack...??? man.. thats noob man....too noob...

**The Titan99** · 04-19-2011, 03:37 AM

It's a troll for sure...

**gthom47** · 04-19-2011, 08:29 AM

well as said before i dont have access to any test, so i need to work out a cycle of just orals. Can anyone help me with that as opposed to just flaming?

**Thedud3** · 04-19-2011, 09:09 AM

No test. = no AAS. Sorry

**MuttonChop** · 04-19-2011, 09:32 AM

If you don't have test, please don't do a cycle yet. Its akin to taking allergy medicine for a stomach ulcer. A bit of an exaggeration, but you get the idea. And listen to the others, carbs should be cut. I personally cut using the Ketogenic diet, and I only have 10g or so of carbs each day. I carbload before working out. Works wonders, I barely lose any muscle as ketogenic diets are inherently anti-catabolic because your body stops relying on glucoses and mainly on ketones.

Protein can be broken down into glucose, and not ketones. Only fat can be. Hence, your protein mass is spared.

**Turkish Juicer** · 04-19-2011, 09:50 AM

Originally Posted by gthom47

well as said before i dont have access to any test, so i need to work out a cycle of just orals. Can anyone help me with that as opposed to just flaming?

Test should be the base of any cycle. Everyone here knows that, especially those whom you are seeking advices from. Therefore, no one will help you out with a cycle design that only consists of orals and no test. That is indeed a horrible idea and it would not be fair to expect a supporting advice toward that direction.

Here is my advice: find access to Test, somehow. Otherwise do not cycle.

**gthom47** · 04-19-2011, 04:54 PM

ok great

**The Titan99** · 04-19-2011, 06:44 PM

Taking steroids without Test is like making a protein shake with no protein. No matter what you do, it will simply not do what you want it to do.

**makelovenotwar21** · 04-19-2011, 09:57 PM

Your cycle blows monkey dick. Hold up, wait a minute, time to put some test in it.

**The Titan99** · 04-19-2011, 10:20 PM

That's pretty funny!!

**gthom47** · 04-20-2011, 09:58 AM

ok for the 100 time yes i know about needing test but as of now i have no supplier. why then if you "absolutely need" test why does this site in the store make suggestions for stacks with just orals

**Turkish Juicer** · 04-20-2011, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by gthom47

ok for the 100 time yes i know about needing test but as of now i have no supplier. why then if you "absolutely need" test why does this site in the store make suggestions for stacks with just orals

I think you are referring to the oral stack adviced by ''***********.com'' in the banner above. Those guys sell pro-hormones, aka ''legal steroids '' as opposed to real steroids that are often subjected to the forum members. Read the paragraph below, it is an excerpt from the website:

''There is also another category that seems to get more and more attention and this is steroid alternatives and in some cases these alternatives are legal steroids yet to be banned. Countless supplement companies year after year are looking for the new big thing in performance enhancing they can sell over the counter. Most are familiar with pro-hormones that are for the most part anabolic steroids that have been altered in a way that makes them slightly different and therefore completely legal. Granted, many pro-hormones are now illegal; in 2004 the U.S. government reinforced the 1990 Steroid Control Act pulling many of the pro-hormones or legal steroids off the shelves. Even so many supplement companies continue to find new ways to manufacture legal steroids and year after year they are pulled off the shelves as well but this only leads to new legal alternatives being produced; it seems to be an endless cycle.''

Back to the beginning: Test should be the base of any cycle. Everyone here knows that, especially those whom you are seeking advices from. Therefore, no one will help you out with a cycle design that only consists of orals and no test. That is indeed a horrible idea and it would not be fair to expect a supporting advice toward that direction.

Here is my advice: find access to Test, somehow. Otherwise do not cycle.

**gthom47** · 04-20-2011, 03:06 PM

ok fair enough, so how does this cycle sound.

10-12 week cycle
test prop- 400mg a week for the whole cylce
dbol - 40mg a day weeks 1-4

4 week pct
nolva- week 1 40, week 2 30, week 3 20, week 4 10

**The Titan99** · 04-20-2011, 11:35 PM

Originally Posted by gthom47

ok fair enough, so how does this cycle sound.

10-12 week cycle
test prop- 400mg a week for the whole cylce
dbol - 40mg a day weeks 1-4

4 week pct
nolva- week 1 40, week 2 30, week 3 20, week 4 10

Change that to Test E or C, do 500 mg/week drop the dbol, add another SERM to PCT. Now it sounds reasonable.

**gthom47** · 04-21-2011, 08:27 AM

why test e or c as opposed to prop? should i be running an AI then if it is just test? add what, like 100mg of clomid?

**The Titan99** · 04-21-2011, 09:15 AM

Test is Test is Test, so why inject ed or eod? That's why E or C. I would not run an AI unless you see signs of gyno. Some guys like to to control water weight, bloating etc with AI's, I'm definitely not one of them. AI's dry out your joints making you more susceptible to injury and they can certainly f up your libido, (They will turn your dick into a drain for your bladder) not to mention your gains. You need some estrogen. Have one (an AI) on hand, but I wouldn't take it unless you need it. Now, Clomid IS NOT an AI. Clomid is a SERM. Completely different. Research this before going any further. You'll be happy you did, believe me. An AI is arimedex or aromasin (AKA Stane). If you want to take something to control water, enhance the effect of the Test, keep estro in check AND help your libido (like you'll need that on test only) Proviron is what I like. It's cheap as chips and goes together with Test like peanut butter and jelly.

Finally, I hate Clomid and would always use Torem as a second SERM. Research that too.

You'll be OK Bud, just take it slow and get EVERYTHING lined up before you start.

**gthom47** · 04-21-2011, 12:10 PM

yea i meant clomid as a pct along with the nolva not as an AI. i have liquidex for an AI on hand. ok ill look into torem. i still have a full bottle of nolva and arimidex just in case. but ill get a source for the torem and hopefully test soon and get it all together, thanks.