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  1. #1
    Wayne Train is offline New Member
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    Requesting critique and advice on my first cycle: Diet, training, gear, etc.

    Hello, I just joined the forum but have been reading it for awhile and have come to really respect the opinions of some of the members. I am preparing for my first “real” cycle and want to be 100% ready. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

    Age=30
    Height 5’8”
    Current weight=161lbs - Highest weight achieved was 173lbs one year ago at the end of a cycle of pro hormones.

    Body fat percentage = 8% - I’m cut right now as I have not been eating enough and when I don’t eat, I lose weight and get shredded.
    BMR - Below

    ****In the past I have always considered myself a hard gainer. My genetics are good in that I look good (proportionate/appealing to the eye). I have always known how important eating and protein intake is but dieting has always been my greatest challenge. I have not had the necessary knowledge to put together a decent diet and my appetite is terrible. I usually just eat as much as possible and drink way too many shakes. I put on very little fat even if I eat really dirty. I now realize that I need a real diet if I am to reach my goals and am willing to eat to grow. I will do what it takes.


    Training history – I have been lifting since I was 14 years old on and off. Over the past eight years I have consistently trained eight months out of the year. Over the years I have read books, magazines and done a ton of training research. Training is definitely my favorite part of bodybuilding and I feel confident in my program although I am always open to suggestion. My routines are centered around bench, dead lifts, pull ups, military presses, and squats. I lift 4-5 days a week and keep my rep ranges around 6-8 with heavy weight and go until failure. 3-4 exercises per body part. Monday = back and biceps, Wednesday=chest and triceps, Friday=Legs, Saturday=shoulders, traps, and abs. This is my base and I make slight changes constantly (open to critique for sure).

    Cycle history – 3 cycles of pro hormones with decent results however when on these cycles my diet was the best it had ever been so much of the gains made may have been diet related.
    ***Before researching AAS properly I attempted a cycle of oral Dbol , 40mgs per day split in two doses. After three weeks I stopped because I was convinced the product was not real. I was not seeing results. However, now that I have learned more, I know that my diet was not on point. I was getting most of my nutrients from two meals a day plus A LOT of weight gainer shakes and protein shakes. I was getting enough protein but not from the right sources. I did notice irritated nipples as well which leads me to believe that the product could have been legit but I’m still not 100% sure.

    ***Here is a rough draft of my diet plan. I got it from a sticky in the diet and nutrition forum and made some changes.

    BMR: 1712, my job/lifestyle is very active so my calorie intake needed to maintain my weight should be 2953.2. I’m guessing I should be taking in 3500-4000 calories on cycle to grow?


    Meal 1: Pro/Carb
    8 Egg Whites, 1 Scoop Of Whey Protein, 1 cup oatmeal
    50g protein / 54g carbs / 5g fat
    Meal 2: Pro/Fat
    Lean Ground Beef, ¼ cup sharp cheddar cheese, green veggies
    55g protein / 2g carbs / 20g fat
    Meal 3: Pro/Fat
    2 Cans of Tuna, 1 Tbsp Full Fat Mayonnaise, Veggies
    60g protein / 2g carbs / 13g Fat
    Meal 4: Pro/Carb
    Chicken Breast, 1 and a half cup Brown Rice
    55g protein / 64g carbs / 3g Fat
    Workout
    Meal 5: PWO Nutrition
    2 Scoops Whey Protein / ½ cup brown rice (measured uncooked)
    40g protein / 70g carbs / 0g fat
    Meal 6: PPWO
    Boneless Skinless Chicken Breast, ½ cup Brown Rice (Measured Uncooked)
    50g protein / 70g carbs / 3g fat
    Meal 7: Pro/Fat
    Talapia, 2 Tbsp Natural Peanut Butter
    50g protein / 5g carbs / 18g fat
    Meal 8: Before Bed
    3 Scoops of Whey Protein, 1.5 Tbsp. Flax Seed Oil
    60g protein / 3g carbs / 21g Fat

    ****As money permits I will eat steak instead of chicken. And I plan to cheat at the Outback steakhouse once a week. If I can swing it, I’ll have a scoop of protein when I get up in the middle of the night to use the restroom.

    Totals: 420 grams protein, 250 grams Carbs, and 83 grams of fat. This is roughly 3500 calories

    Currently, my plan is to get settled into my new diet, get my weight closer to 165 which has traditionally been my natural plateau, and then begin my cycle.

    Cycle rough draft:

    Weeks 1-4 – oral Dbol 40mgs per day split into two doses, 500mgs of test ethanate split into two 250mg shots Sunday and Thursday.

    Weeks 5-10 – 500mgs of test ethanate split into two doses.

    Weeks 12-16 – Nolvadex for PCT (I’m still trying to find the right dosages as there is a lot of info out there. Also, I have the Nolvadex on hand in case of any signs of gyno while on cycle.

    ****Additionally, I have on hand, and am planning to run hcg starting in week 4 and stopping before the end of the cycle but I could use some advice on this (dosage, etc.). Also wondering if I need to add Clomid to my PCT plan. Going back and forth on using arimidex during the cycle as well. I have the test, nolvadex, and hcg. What else do I need to have to be totally prepared for both cycle and PCT?

    I know this is a ton of info and I have a lot of questions but I am taking this really seriously and the guys in the gym are not as knowledgeable as some of the posters here. I would be grateful for any info/advice/suggestions on diet, cycle, training....whatever. Thank you so much.

  2. #2
    Kostas's Avatar
    Kostas is offline Junior Member
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    Since i'm not allowed to tell anything about roids and their use i'll just add some notes considering your diet

    You seem to have the ectomorph type of body,the guy who gains hard and look thin

    First of all you need to eat a lot of carbs,the whole damn day,you cant grow without those,your body metabolises like crazy so they wont make you fat instead they will protect your hard earned and absorbed protein from being used as energy and hopefuly depending on your genes,rest and training you'll grow.

  3. #3
    Wayne Train is offline New Member
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    Thanks Kostas.

    To update: Im thinking of running hcg 175ius 2-3X weekly starting in week 4 of the cycle.

    For PCT: Weeks 1-4 (two weeks after last test injection) Clomid 25-50mg ED and Nolvadex 20mg ED.

    Additionally, Ill have ADEX on hand in case of gyno during cycle.

  4. #4
    Kostas's Avatar
    Kostas is offline Junior Member
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    These guyz are like Nazis man,i'm not allowed to speak for roids..Only old members are allowed..You came to the wrong place..

    Last post

  5. #5
    dec11's Avatar
    dec11 is offline 'everything louder than everything else'
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Train View Post
    Thanks Kostas.

    To update: Im thinking of running hcg 175ius 2-3X weekly starting in week 4 of the cycle.

    For PCT: Weeks 1-4 (two weeks after last test injection) Clomid 25-50mg ED and Nolvadex 20mg ED.

    Additionally, Ill have ADEX on hand in case of gyno during cycle.
    do not take advice from this guy, hes here to stir, be warned.

    hcg 250iu e3.5d throughout whole cycle.

    pct clomid 50/50/50/50/50
    nolva 20/20/20/20/20

    if its a 1st time cycle, just use the test @ 500mg pw and keep the dbol for another, if you get sides you wont know which is causing them.

  6. #6
    dec11's Avatar
    dec11 is offline 'everything louder than everything else'
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kostas View Post
    These guyz are like Nazis man,i'm not allowed to speak for roids..Only old members are allowed..You came to the wrong place..

    Last post
    good

  7. #7
    Kostas's Avatar
    Kostas is offline Junior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by dec11 View Post
    good
    Almost 7K posts within 18 months or so? Get a life man..

    Also you should stop taking so much Testo..Its driving you nuts man..

    Is Diana androgenic ? Is bringing libido down during a cycle?
    You still dont know shit
    Last edited by Kostas; 04-23-2011 at 11:04 PM.

  8. #8
    dec11's Avatar
    dec11 is offline 'everything louder than everything else'
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Train View Post
    Hello, I just joined the forum but have been reading it for awhile and have come to really respect the opinions of some of the members. I am preparing for my first “real” cycle and want to be 100% ready. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

    Age=30
    Height 5’8”
    Current weight=161lbs - Highest weight achieved was 173lbs one year ago at the end of a cycle of pro hormones.

    Body fat percentage = 8% - I’m cut right now as I have not been eating enough and when I don’t eat, I lose weight and get shredded.
    BMR - Below

    ****In the past I have always considered myself a hard gainer. My genetics are good in that I look good (proportionate/appealing to the eye). I have always known how important eating and protein intake is but dieting has always been my greatest challenge. I have not had the necessary knowledge to put together a decent diet and my appetite is terrible. I usually just eat as much as possible and drink way too many shakes. I put on very little fat even if I eat really dirty. I now realize that I need a real diet if I am to reach my goals and am willing to eat to grow. I will do what it takes.


    Training history – I have been lifting since I was 14 years old on and off. Over the past eight years I have consistently trained eight months out of the year. Over the years I have read books, magazines and done a ton of training research. Training is definitely my favorite part of bodybuilding and I feel confident in my program although I am always open to suggestion. My routines are centered around bench, dead lifts, pull ups, military presses, and squats. I lift 4-5 days a week and keep my rep ranges around 6-8 with heavy weight and go until failure. 3-4 exercises per body part. Monday = back and biceps, Wednesday=chest and triceps, Friday=Legs, Saturday=shoulders, traps, and abs. This is my base and I make slight changes constantly (open to critique for sure).

    Cycle history – 3 cycles of pro hormones with decent results however when on these cycles my diet was the best it had ever been so much of the gains made may have been diet related.
    ***Before researching AAS properly I attempted a cycle of oral Dbol , 40mgs per day split in two doses. After three weeks I stopped because I was convinced the product was not real. I was not seeing results. However, now that I have learned more, I know that my diet was not on point. I was getting most of my nutrients from two meals a day plus A LOT of weight gainer shakes and protein shakes. I was getting enough protein but not from the right sources. I did notice irritated nipples as well which leads me to believe that the product could have been legit but I’m still not 100% sure.

    ***Here is a rough draft of my diet plan. I got it from a sticky in the diet and nutrition forum and made some changes.

    BMR: 1712, my job/lifestyle is very active so my calorie intake needed to maintain my weight should be 2953.2. I’m guessing I should be taking in 3500-4000 calories on cycle to grow?


    Meal 1: Pro/Carb
    8 Egg Whites, 1 Scoop Of Whey Protein, 1 cup oatmeal
    50g protein / 54g carbs / 5g fat
    Meal 2: Pro/Fat
    Lean Ground Beef, ¼ cup sharp cheddar cheese, green veggies
    55g protein / 2g carbs / 20g fat
    Meal 3: Pro/Fat
    2 Cans of Tuna, 1 Tbsp Full Fat Mayonnaise, Veggies
    60g protein / 2g carbs / 13g Fat
    Meal 4: Pro/Carb
    Chicken Breast, 1 and a half cup Brown Rice
    55g protein / 64g carbs / 3g Fat
    Workout
    Meal 5: PWO Nutrition
    2 Scoops Whey Protein / ½ cup brown rice (measured uncooked)
    40g protein / 70g carbs / 0g fat
    Meal 6: PPWO
    Boneless Skinless Chicken Breast, ½ cup Brown Rice (Measured Uncooked)
    50g protein / 70g carbs / 3g fat
    Meal 7: Pro/Fat
    Talapia, 2 Tbsp Natural Peanut Butter
    50g protein / 5g carbs / 18g fat
    Meal 8: Before Bed
    3 Scoops of Whey Protein, 1.5 Tbsp. Flax Seed Oil
    60g protein / 3g carbs / 21g Fat

    ****As money permits I will eat steak instead of chicken. And I plan to cheat at the Outback steakhouse once a week. If I can swing it, I’ll have a scoop of protein when I get up in the middle of the night to use the restroom.

    Totals: 420 grams protein, 250 grams Carbs, and 83 grams of fat. This is roughly 3500 calories

    Currently, my plan is to get settled into my new diet, get my weight closer to 165 which has traditionally been my natural plateau, and then begin my cycle.

    Cycle rough draft:

    Weeks 1-4 – oral Dbol 40mgs per day split into two doses, 500mgs of test ethanate split into two 250mg shots Sunday and Thursday.

    Weeks 5-10 – 500mgs of test ethanate split into two doses.

    Weeks 12-16 – Nolvadex for PCT (I’m still trying to find the right dosages as there is a lot of info out there. Also, I have the Nolvadex on hand in case of any signs of gyno while on cycle.

    ****Additionally, I have on hand, and am planning to run hcg starting in week 4 and stopping before the end of the cycle but I could use some advice on this (dosage, etc.). Also wondering if I need to add Clomid to my PCT plan. Going back and forth on using arimidex during the cycle as well. I have the test, nolvadex, and hcg. What else do I need to have to be totally prepared for both cycle and PCT?

    I know this is a ton of info and I have a lot of questions but I am taking this really seriously and the guys in the gym are not as knowledgeable as some of the posters here. I would be grateful for any info/advice/suggestions on diet, cycle, training....whatever. Thank you so much.
    dont get bogged down in this kind of thinking, best to feel your way in and see whats working for you, i can grow on less than that and im 215lbs. i also dont agree on these massive amounts of protein some ppl take, not all your body weight is muscle, again feel your way in adding bit by bit. it will take a few cycles to get everything tip top and correct

  9. #9
    lovbyts's Avatar
    lovbyts is offline Knowledgeable Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kostas View Post
    These guyz are like Nazis man,i'm not allowed to speak for roids..Only old members are allowed..You came to the wrong place..

    Last post
    Stop being such a little b*tch. You got slapped for giving advice to a KID. If you dont like to play by OUR rules then be a man a leave without crying all the way out.

  10. #10
    MBMETC's Avatar
    MBMETC is offline Anabolic Member
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    Diet looks pretty good, I myself prefer to have my pro/carb meals all throughout my day and keep pro/fat meals for when I get home and am less active. Food for thought. Also use a casien protien in your bedtime shake with 2tbls natty peanut butter it will hold you and you won't need to take that whey pro when you wake in the middle of the night.
    Cycle looks good as dec mentioned you may want to hold the d-bol, but the choice is yours. Get yourself an ai (aromitose inhibitor) just incase you experience estrogen related side effects (erse)

  11. #11
    Turkish Juicer's Avatar
    Turkish Juicer is offline Knowledgeable Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Train View Post

    ***Here is a rough draft of my diet plan. I got it from a sticky in the diet and nutrition forum and made some changes.

    BMR: 1712, my job/lifestyle is very active so my calorie intake needed to maintain my weight should be 2953.2. I’m guessing I should be taking in 3500-4000 calories on cycle to grow? I bet you can grow even with less cals. with correct adjustments made on your diet. I am shorter but heavier than you with a little more BF and I can clearly observe my body growing on 3000-3500 cals without cycling. Your pro/carb ratio in your diet as well as your daily carb intake will rather be the determinents here especially since you seem to have the ectomorph body type. We will have to make sure your fat intake also consists of healthy fatty acids that are known to trigger androgenic hormones and help protein synthesis.


    Meal 1: Pro/Carb
    8 Egg Whites, 1 Scoop Of Whey Protein, 1 cup oatmeal You can add 1-2 whole eggs here, on top of the whites.
    50g protein / 54g carbs / 5g fat
    Meal 2: Pro/Fat
    Lean Ground Beef, ¼ cup sharp cheddar cheese, green veggies Early meal, you are better off with carbs. Drop the cheese, add some (150-200gr) complex carbs such as whole wheat pasta, brown rice and/or sweet potatos.
    55g protein / 2g carbs / 20g fat
    Meal 3: Pro/Fat
    2 Cans of Tuna, 1 Tbsp Full Fat Mayonnaise, Veggies I am not a fan of Mayo as a fat source for various reasons. First and foremost, stay away from processed foods in general, as a matter of principle. Second, remember you may have to deal with oily skin issues during your cycle, as many people do. Especially if you have normal to oily type of skin, you are better off staying away from Mayo throughout your cycle.
    60g protein / 2g carbs / 13g Fat
    Meal 4: Pro/Carb
    Chicken Breast, 1 and a half cup Brown Rice
    55g protein / 64g carbs / 3g Fat
    Workout
    Meal 5: PWO Nutrition
    2 Scoops Whey Protein / ½ cup brown rice (measured uncooked)
    40g protein / 70g carbs / 0g fat
    Meal 6: PPWO
    Boneless Skinless Chicken Breast, ½ cup Brown Rice (Measured Uncooked)
    50g protein / 70g carbs / 3g fat
    Meal 7: Pro/Fat
    Talapia, 2 Tbsp Natural Peanut Butter
    50g protein / 5g carbs / 18g fat
    Meal 8: Before Bed
    3 Scoops of Whey Protein, 1.5 Tbsp. Flax Seed Oil Horrible idea. Switch to Casein instead. 1-2 scoops, you are fine. With Casein, you will not need the flax seed oil either.
    60g protein / 3g carbs / 21g Fat

    ****As money permits I will eat steak instead of chicken. And I plan to cheat at the Outback steakhouse once a week. If I can swing it, I’ll have a scoop of protein when I get up in the middle of the night to use the restroom. Do not drink whey when you get up in the middle of the night. Once after you switch to Casein as your before bed shake, you will not need to eat and/or drink anything but water before you wake up in the morning.

    Totals: 420 grams protein, 250 grams Carbs, and 83 grams of fat. This is roughly 3500 calories This is far from an ideal pro/cho ratio as well as daily carb intake for an ectomorph, not to mention 420gr of protein is an outrageous amount for someone with your goals and stats (unless you are secretly training for Olympia, lol). Frank Zane's daily pro intake was around 200 gr, period. Sergio Olivia would not eat more than 40 gr of pro per meal. We are talking about BB legends here, whose workout routines were also much harsher on the muscle than yours probably ever will be. A 161 lbs ectomorph will grow so much more with less protein and more carbs, you have to try and see it yourself. I recommend lowering your daily pro intake to a range of 300-320gr and increasing your daily carb intake up to 500gr if you can. You will grow like a weed...

    Currently, my plan is to get settled into my new diet, get my weight closer to 165 which has traditionally been my natural plateau, and then begin my cycle.

    Cycle rough draft:

    Weeks 1-4 – oral Dbol 40mgs per day split into two doses, 500mgs of test ethanate split into two 250mg shots Sunday and Thursday.

    Weeks 5-10 – 500mgs of test ethanate split into two doses.

    Weeks 12-16 – Nolvadex for PCT (I’m still trying to find the right dosages as there is a lot of info out there. Also, I have the Nolvadex on hand in case of any signs of gyno while on cycle.

    ****Additionally, I have on hand, and am planning to run hcg starting in week 4 and stopping before the end of the cycle but I could use some advice on this (dosage, etc.). Also wondering if I need to add Clomid to my PCT plan. Going back and forth on using arimidex during the cycle as well. I have the test, nolvadex, and hcg. What else do I need to have to be totally prepared for both cycle and PCT?

    I know this is a ton of info and I have a lot of questions but I am taking this really seriously and the guys in the gym are not as knowledgeable as some of the posters here. I would be grateful for any info/advice/suggestions on diet, cycle, training....whatever. Thank you so much.
    Responses in BOLD.
    Last edited by Turkish Juicer; 04-24-2011 at 06:10 AM.

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