The Myth of Keepable Gains

[delta1111]

After my first cycle I noticed a pretty rapid loss of gains. This is why ever since, I have stayed on and probably will for a long time (blast and cruise). So I can't really comment on whether or not gains are keepable. I suppose i'll find out one day though, when I have to come off.

[Natureboy71]

I think most people shrink because they don't and train the same when they are off. And I am sure many pro's and other types like WWE wrestlers, etc never go off, hence don't shrink.

[sanman]

I am no expert on doing AAS at no means.But I know when I do start my cycle & when it ends I will not be keeping the gains I did have while cycling.For the 12 wks I do cycle I am going to feel great & push myself in the gym even harder if i wasnt on the juice.I know I will look good for those wks & hopfully a few wks after & thats it! Hopfully i would look good for this summer.

[Twist]

from what i have read, researched, and seen as long as you keep your diet and workouts in check you should be able to keep atleast some gains from a cycle. if i am totally wrong in my research someone please tell me.

you do make very good points and obviously you cant keep everything because it is an addition beyond what your body can do naturally so it cant then magically sustain that naturally. but from what i have read you can keep some of it really long term with good diet and routine.

You can keep plenty of gains from a cycle, as long as you don't go over your natural potential. In many cases your body is worse off (hormonally) post cycle than it was before. You can lose fat and gain muscle above and beyond natural potential however your body WILL fall back to equilibrium over time. HGH use may change your equilibrium.

Does hyperplasia allow you to keep some gains permanently? Does it allow you to go past your genetic limit and stay there?

It looks that way to me.

Im in the same boat as awms. I see great gains at what some would consider low doses of gear. This last time after pct and time off I was able to keep 11lbs. So if I can manage at least 5lbs a couple times a year I'm good. You going to get a mixed review on this and its going to come down to the individual.

11 pounds is possible of course, as long as it is not 11 pounds over natural limit. See my opinion above.

Keeping gains? TRT is the new PCT

True! It's so common haha. But even so you will need to up your dose at a certain point.

What about when your body sees itself at a heavier weight for a long period of time? Doesn't it change itself to stay that size? Kinda like when fat people lose alot of weight, naturally their body wants to go back to the heavier weight, but if they keep the weight off the body will get used to it and stop fighting to gain it back? Right or wrong?

Fat people can get fatter easily because their fat cells not only expanded but actually replicated. Therefore they have more fat cells so even when cell size decreases they still have more cells. this is the reason why hgh is most likely the best way to make keepable gains.

Just something to think about, i have a friend who ive trained with on and off for many years, he's never touched an aas in his life and doesn't even go for protein powders, creatine ect ect.

When he's been training for months and months none stop he looks great, big as though he's trained hard all his life. But when he stops training for a few weeks he loses everything, he can look like he's never trained in his life in just a few weeks...

THis is much like me. I can skip the gym for a week and shrink down to the point that it looks as if I never worked out (but was just better than average and lean). Back in the gym for two or three days and I fill right back up. I chalk this up to muscle cells holding more glycogen when working out, but when not in the gym it sees no need to hold onto it.

So what if you did this. What if you did a cycle, Test (and whatever else) along with HGH around 4-5ius a day, and continued HGH throughout PCT and just stayed on HGH, would you keep your gains coming off?

My hypothesis is that the best way to make keepable gains without trt or continued use of any compounds (including hgh) is to run gh for a month or two precycle, build up to a high dose of about 5 -8ius and then blast a heavy cycle (for your level of experience) and continue the hgh for a month after pct. So probably a 6 month period of hgh with a cycle thrown in the middle.

have you any easier q's? lol

This was so funny to me hahahahaha.

proper hgh is great stuff

Yes pharma is great. Chinese is crap. I speak from my firsthand experience only.

This is a great topic.

[pebble]

What about when your body sees itself at a heavier weight for a long period of time? Doesn't it change itself to stay that size? Kinda like when fat people lose alot of weight, naturally their body wants to go back to the heavier weight, but if they keep the weight off the body will get used to it and stop fighting to gain it back? Right or wrong?

There is strong evidence to suggest that there is a set point. Theory is based off of evidence that when one gains or loses weight the body will either increase or decrease metabolism below or above the expected required level of maintenance. Read there is a break in linearity of the body mass to kcal required relationship. The slope increases when one gains weight and decreases when one loses weight. However, the body can be forced to readjust its set points just like any other regulation in the body (i.e. baroreceptors for BP) with constant reinforcement. I this case it means eating the right amount to maintain a specific weight over a long period of time.

As for hyperplasia, guys its rare, very rare. It is usually only observed in chickens when the have literally attached weight to their wings for weeks at a time. The constant stimulus drives satellite cells to turn into myoblasts and subsequently myofilaments. Working out 6 days a week 4 hours a day doesn't even come close to comparing to the volume of stimulus the chickens require to have this adaption.

[MuttonChop]

It really depends on what you want to use the AAS for. My college football buddies don't plan to keep all their gains after their cycle. They don't plan to train as hard after football either.

If you plan to keep gains for life, I don't see why you would be the type of person who would do it only a few times and stop (money and health not being factors).

[redz]

Interesting reading all these opinions, for me I can really tell the difference the most because I push myself so much harder while on cycle than not on. I think some gains are keepable but it's not like we can get in the best shape we have ever been in naturally after doing many cycles.

[Bigd89]

I figure if I eat alot, train as hard...I will be able to keep at least 50% of those gains...

[hwy1378]

Keeping gains? TRT is the new PCT

Thats what im doing, my natural Test levels are to low 125 natually so my PCT is 200 Test Cyp a week plus 3iu HGH a day

[dec11]

I figure if I eat alot, train as hard...I will be able to keep at least 50% of those gains...

your figuring wrong then....

[BigandStrong]

So does this mean that the pro's are constantly on cycle? They would have to be otherwise they wouldn't be getting bigger and more conditioned each year?

Someone explain to me how the pro's always stay so big. Do they cruise in the offseason at lets say 600 mg and then pre-contest they blast and bump it up for the next twelve weeks? Someone enlighten me.

[dec11]

So does this mean that the pro's are constantly on cycle? They would have to be otherwise they wouldn't be getting bigger and more conditioned each year?

Someone explain to me how the pro's always stay so big. Do they cruise in the offseason at lets say 600 mg and then pre-contest they blast and bump it up for the next twelve weeks? Someone enlighten me.

of course they are always on, jez i even know of a local amateur guy and his 'off cycle' usage would be considered my 'on cycle' dosage!
hes 20st and ripped but at tht rate he'll be lucky to make it past 45.

you'll never know a pros cruise and on doses unless one tells you

[SMcB]

what do u consider a persons natural genetic limit and how are u supposed to tell ...

I know what my natural limit is, but of course I wouldn't be able to tell what another person's natural limit would be. But I think it's a safe bet to say that if a steroid user claimed he kept a certain percentage of his gains, he wasn't at his natural limit yet. I mean think about it, steroid usage is at an all time high in today's times, both in pro sports and among your typical gym rats. There are users out there who are constantly cycling. If steroids did in fact produce permanent gains, then wouldn't there be alot of guys out there built like Arnold even after getting off the juice? I don't know about you, but I've never met anyone built like a pro bodybuilder, and that includes guys who I know are on or used to be on steroids.

[BigandStrong]

of course they are always on, jez i even know of a local amateur guy and his 'off cycle' usage would be considered my 'on cycle' dosage!
hes 20st and ripped but at tht rate he'll be lucky to make it past 45.

you'll never know a pros cruise and on doses unless one tells you

That sucks ....

Then how come bodybuilders like zane, arnie,and draper are old and still alive and nubret died at a real old age? I thought test makes you're body younger in a sense and just makes you more healthy overall bc of all the diseases ppl come down with due to low test.

The reason im asking is because apparently the only way to get big and kerp getting big is to always be on / cruise and blast but I would like to not die young...

[Turkish Juicer]

Everything i've read suggests that AAS only serves to increase the size of a muscle cell and that only HGH can grow new muscle cells!

That is correct.

AAS = Cell hypertrophy (cells growing in size).

HGH = Cell hyperplasia (cells growing in number).

delta1111's post consists of incorrect info for the most part. He has not done his research well, quite obviously. Everyone is entitled to freely express their opinons, however, this should not stand for degenerating scientific inquiry.

Lastly, when AAS are used along with HGH, long terms benefits are greater (as well as the risks) for the user since HGH actually has the capacity to alter one's genetic composition through directly manipulating the make up of his organism. Both in theory and practice, gains will be kept to a great extent when the user is on HGH for prolonged periods of time. HGH is agressively used by BB's today and my personal opinion is that most ''freak of nature'' types in BB today owe their out-of-this-world looks to the agressive use of HGH along with AAS.

[delta1111]

That is correct.

AAS = Cell hypertrophy (cells growing in size).

HGH = Cell hyperplasia (cells growing in number).

delta1111's post consists of incorrect info for the most part. He has not done his research well, quite obviously. Everyone is entitled to freely express their opinons, however, this should not stand for degenerating scientific inquiry.

Lastly, when AAS are used along with HGH, long terms benefits are greater (as well as the risks) for the user since HGH actually has the capacity to alter one's genetic composition through directly manipulating the make up of his organism. Both in theory and practice, gains will be kept to a great extent when the user is on HGH for prolonged periods of time. HGH is agressively used by BB's today and my personal opinion is that most ''freak of nature'' types in BB today owe their out-of-this-world looks to the agressive use of HGH along with AAS.

Turkish Juicer, I think you are confused, I didn't post the original comment, just the correction regarding the effects of AAS compared to HGH.

Original post was submitted by "kleaver"

[Turkish Juicer]

Turkish Juicer, I think you are confused, I didn't post the original comment, just the correction regarding the effects of AAS compared to HGH.

Original post was submitted by "kleaver"

Sorry if I confused the two posts, my bad.

It becomes confusing to me sometimes when so many people comment on the same thread and it keeps going on... Becomes really hard to follow, for me at least.

Thanks for the correction.

[jimmyinkedup]

So to expand on my earlier reply. Keep gains how? Between cycles? Forever? One time cycle then never again how much will you keep ? Many possibilities.

First of all i do think certain steroids allow you to keep gains longer than others. Those that fall more into anabolic category will allow you to keep gains more so than more androgenic steroids. The down side is androgenic steroids offer much more gains wise while "on". Im not saying there arent exceptions - because there are (halotestin for example) . Steroids that are considered more anabolic than androgenic offer slower , MUCH less dramtic , but better retained gains. Overall just by their mechanism of actions it makes sense that this would be the case. Some steroids offer both - ie: deca . 2 of most notable steroids imo for well retained gains would be deca and primobolan .

Now keeping gains - between cycles - sure you can do well to mainitan some decent gains. Proper diet training and rest of course.

One cycle then never again - prob not.

Years of cycling - imo - leads to being farther ahead than if you never cycled. I base this off of personal experince. I was in a severe car accident. In a wheelchair for months , laid up for many more , overall recovery 12-14 months. I was DEF in better shape than i would have been after months of inactivity than if i had never cycled and worked out like i had for years. Ultimately you HAVE to continue the lifestayle to maintain gains in any form - regardless of steroids or not. As Matt mentioned he has a friend that doenst use aas and when he stops working out - he loses it. Same will be said in any and all cases.

To the younger people that want to cycle - the COST of cycling early will FAR outweight the benfit you may gain by doing so. You risk limiting natural potential , the foundation by which you start. IMO lets say naturally you could have gotten to 210lbs by age 25. Instead you cycle at 22 , at 190lbs. You will ,imo, NEVER get that 20 lbs back. Meaning you will have robbed your self ulitmatelty of 20 lbs of mass by cycling too young. When all is said and done you will have cost yourself muscle. Just my opinion here.When you are young its hard to see past the here and now , so much easier when you are older. Its a shame because from a cost/benefits standpoint it isnt even close - its a horrible idea to cycle at too young an age - for many many reasons. This is just one IMO.

[Times Roman]

my understanding is that test does NOT grow new cells, just makes them larger
to grow NEW cells, you look to GH for that with two routes
Peptides,
or GH direct

[Turkish Juicer]

First of all i do think certain steroids allow you to keep gains longer than others. Those that fall more into anabolic category will allow you to keep gains more so than more androgenic steroids. The down side is androgenic steroids offer much more gains wise while "on". Im not saying there arent exceptions - because there are (halotestin for example) . Steroids that are considered more anabolic than androgenic offer slower , MUCH less dramtic , but better retained gains. Overall just by their mechanism of actions it makes sense that this would be the case. Some steroids offer both - ie: deca . 2 of most notable steroids imo for well retained gains would be deca and primobolan . Exactly my thoughts. I have personally experienced this with Primobolan Depot, which is generally a bashed AAS merely due to having low androgenic properties. Not only I have experienced retainable gains from this compound, but I have also observed this to be the case with other people who have cycled it. It goes without saying that one needs to be very patient with Primobolan and needs a good dose of fast acting Test with it in order to avoid frustration due to lack of dramatic results. I think this is exactly what makes Tren the king of all AAS since its anabolic-androgenic ratio is 500/500, making it out of this world AAS, offering users the best of two worlds.

Years of cycling - imo - leads to being farther ahead than if you never cycled. I base this off of personal experince. I was in a severe car accident. In a wheelchair for months , laid up for many more , overall recovery 12-14 months. I was DEF in better shape than i would have been after months of inactivity than if i had never cycled and worked out like i had for years. Ultimately you HAVE to continue the lifestayle to maintain gains in any form - regardless of steroids or not. As Matt mentioned he has a friend that doenst use aas and when he stops working out - he loses it. Same will be said in any and all cases. I agree with every word and sentence.

To the younger people that want to cycle - the COST of cycling early will FAR outweight the benfit you may gain by doing so. You risk limiting natural potential , the foundation by which you start. IMO lets say naturally you could have gotten to 210lbs by age 25. Instead you cycle at 22 , at 190lbs. You will ,imo, NEVER get that 20 lbs back. Meaning you will have robbed your self ulitmatelty of 20 lbs of mass by cycling too young. When all is said and done you will have cost yourself muscle. Just my opinion here.When you are young its hard to see past the here and now , so much easier when you are older. Its a shame because from a cost/benefits standpoint it isnt even close - its a horrible idea to cycle at too young an age - for many many reasons. This is just one IMO. This paragraph should be sticky, lol

Responses in bold.

[MACHINE5150]

I think HP had an article about this a long time ago that said it best.. THE MOST you can hope to "RETAIN" on gear is a couple pounds.. ie if you are 240lbs and go up to 255lbs on gear you should be happy if you end up at 243-245lbs.. it is all based on your genetics as well as your new diet.. but more than that is the factor of muscle maturity.. muscle maturity is muscle you have had for a while.. basically new muscle is hard to hold on to.. but it is possible.. and if you have it for long enough you will be able to hold onto some of it.. look at some of the ex pros who no longer run the juice / compete but are still absolute monsters.. they ran the juice for long enough for the muscle to mature and their body adapt to holding that much muscle.. surely genetics and diet play a huge factor as well.. but gains are keep-able.. the question is at what cost??

The reason that Dec11 felt weaker after a few cycles is because he more than likely messed up his natural test production and therefore did more damage than good.. this is a risk you run, and no amount of PCT is "GUARANTEED" to prevent this.. you are playing Russian roulette when you decide to self medicate.. to some it is worth it to some it is not.. personally i think it is worth it.. as long as you do not over do it you run a small chance of causing and SERIOUS damage but you do run a moderate chance of having to go onto TRT for the rest of your life.. that is a minor inconvenience at worst.. at least in my opinion.

[delta1111]

Sorry if I confused the two posts, my bad.

It becomes confusing to me sometimes when so many people comment on the same thread and it keeps going on... Becomes really hard to follow, for me at least.

Thanks for the correction.

No problem.

[dec11]

I think HP had an article about this a long time ago that said it best.. THE MOST you can hope to "RETAIN" on gear is a couple pounds.. ie if you are 240lbs and go up to 255lbs on gear you should be happy if you end up at 243-245lbs.. it is all based on your genetics as well as your new diet.. but more than that is the factor of muscle maturity.. muscle maturity is muscle you have had for a while.. basically new muscle is hard to hold on to.. but it is possible.. and if you have it for long enough you will be able to hold onto some of it.. look at some of the ex pros who no longer run the juice / compete but are still absolute monsters.. they ran the juice for long enough for the muscle to mature and their body adapt to holding that much muscle.. surely genetics and diet play a huge factor as well.. but gains are keep-able.. the question is at what cost??

The reason that Dec11 felt weaker after a few cycles is because he more than likely messed up his natural test production and therefore did more damage than good.. this is a risk you run, and no amount of PCT is "GUARANTEED" to prevent this.. you are playing Russian roulette when you decide to self medicate.. to some it is worth it to some it is not.. personally i think it is worth it.. as long as you do not over do it you run a small chance of causing and SERIOUS damage but you do run a moderate chance of having to go onto TRT for the rest of your life.. that is a minor inconvenience at worst.. at least in my opinion.

that could be quite true, afew cycles could have been enough to screw mine up, when i look back now i think i could have been suffering low test for along time, unexplained bouts of depression etc.

i think the question is to general to answer clearly. there have also been pros's who have shrank back to nothing after discontinuing, one in particular who someone posted a before and after pic quite recently, cant rem who it was though.
im basing it on what ive seen 1st hand of mates etc who have shrank back everytime but then what they did after cycles could have a bearing. i still think 90% keep very little of what they gain on cycle, there are some freaks around though

[BigandStrong]

So basically any cycle you do you will keep SOME gains from that cycle as long as you have not reached your genetic limit?

Once you have reached your genetic limit, any gains you get from a cycle will be lost once you comeoff?

[brad1986]

From experiance and reading alot ive learned that You will eventually always shrink back to your genetic potential. IVe kept everything i gained on my first cycle. But the more i cycle the less i actually maintain from each cycle.

[RoidReaper]

so using 6ius of GH pre cycle and all the way through post and then so on so forth you will keep your gains?

[dece870717]

Some more on the topic http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...t-of-mass-24-7...

[gymnerd]

I came off after along time on just to give my body a break from the hormones and I train hardcore powerlifting till I get f"in stapled I keep adding plates( got good spotters). I did a very aggressive pct started out decent but after the month was up my str was down (still decent) but I had lost 15lbs already and dont look big @ all. I trained harder than on cycle and ate more to try and win and it was useless just not able to maintain. Im back on trt now. I am realizing that I have made my bed and now its time to lie in it. The realazation for me is @ my current level and age I must either stay on forever, or accept that I will not be competetive in this sport and not keep making progress and just stall out.

[gymnerd]

BTW gh is a good drug with its purpose but it isnt going to completely replace a heavy cycle and allow you to maintain a lb incre3ase your going to shrink no matter what in most cases. I have been saying it for awhile if you do not compete or want to live this lifestyle forever its just not worth it to use AAS simple as that. you will fall right into the same roller coaster as everyone else eventually. You will end up out alot of cash and in most cases right where you started again

[RoidReaper]

BTW gh is a good drug with its purpose but it isnt going to completely replace a heavy cycle and allow you to maintain a lb incre3ase your going to shrink no matter what in most cases. I have been saying it for awhile if you do not compete or want to live this lifestyle forever its just not worth it to use AAS simple as that. you will fall right into the same roller coaster as everyone else eventually. You will end up out alot of cash and in most cases right where you started again

Damn even with GH?

[Chris J]

What a reality check. I dont assume anyone is going to stop using tomorrow because of this though. Maybe DM7 has the best plan when saying TRT is the new PCT. I think the odvious was stated when mention was made that dosages would have to be increased over time to continue to see gains. I wonder at what point it becomes dangerous. More dangerouse that when done in moderation so to speak. How long can the body hold up? We see old pro's still alive, but I would also have to assume that genetics plays a major role in all of this. So we can either stay on with the aid of TRT or blast and bridge in between cycles. Or accept the fact that the gains we see on cycle are temporary and enjoy it while it lasts. As gymnerd stated, when its all over we are back to square one with an much lighter wallet. This is great stuff for beginners to read and possibly re think the road they are considering traveling.

[gymnerd]

Damn even with GH?

Gh will of course help alot but remember its a very mild compound unless you intend to use heavy doses with insulin which I dont suggest and takes several months to see any real quality gains yes they will be more keepable than with aas. Its 2 steps forward and one step back. Thats the approach you have to take if you cycle, if you stay on its 2 steps forward, maintain then another one or two forward again but then your into it for life and need to watch ur health carefully this is when things like hemocrite rbc and things of that nature start to become a major concern. If you are the type of personality thats OK with loosing some and coming back later than ur gtg but if your like me and loose lbs off your squat and want to kill someone LOL it can become a problem to come off.

[manblue]

This is truly the best post Ive read so far and gets to the point!

so say you where on 500mg of test a week and on the off cycle you dropped it to 200mg pw would you retain your gains until you started blast cycle again? blast and cruise sort of thing ?

[warren916]

Regardless, if you train hard, and eat right, your going to gain something, even if that something is only 5%.

I just wouldnt expect to keep anything over 25%.

And it all depends on what you have already, i believe its very important to have a good solid base before.

[manblue]

That sucks ....

Then how come bodybuilders like zane, arnie,and draper are old and still alive and nubret died at a real old age? I thought test makes you're body younger in a sense and just makes you more healthy overall bc of all the diseases ppl come down with due to low test.

The reason im asking is because apparently the only way to get big and kerp getting big is to always be on / cruise and blast but I would like to not die young...

I want to know the answer to this too how come the old school juicers are still alive in there late age if its so dangerous to permenatly be on cycle?

[yungone501]

Agreed to OP first post...but it sure is fun until we all have to stop!

[Twist]

This guy had potential...



Then he threw it all away..

How much gear do you think this guy took along with hgh? He must have even had amazing genetics too. What was the result when he quit?

[iraqiwarrior]

Weird i usually keep most of my gains from a cycle. Do a proper PCT add an extra meal to my diet, take a good pre workout, and give it 100% at the gym which i always do.....Usually ill gain 10-15lbs and keep 70-90% of it......only problem is it takes me like 3 months of natural training to get back those lost lbs i couldnt keep

[Turkish Juicer]

I want to know the answer to this too how come the old school juicers are still alive in there late age if its so dangerous to permenatly be on cycle?

First and foremost, you should realize that not all of them are alive. Remember Mike Mentzer who died at the age of 51? He was an avantgarde member of the golden age, inspirer of Dorian Yates. Sure, him and his brother had not inherited the healthiest genes but Mike abused amphetamines for period of time claiming that ''he took them only as an ergogenic aid to help facilitate a hectic lifestyle'' and was sent to rehab to get clean.

Sergio Nubret died recently at the age of 72, he was in a state of coma before he died and the reason was unknown. I am not suggesting this would not have happened if he has not used AAS throughout his life; however, there is no way of developing a solid theory to determine whether he would have lived longer if he stayed away from all the chemical compounds he messed with throughout his life. Would have he lived longer if he has not touched AAS ever? May be, may be not. 72 is a tricky age, it is hence hard to make a comment. As far as longevity is concerned, there are way to many determinants for one's life span and I believe environmental factors play a great role here besides nutrition, life style and etc.

Moreover, no one knows how long the BB's of the golden age who are still alive will continue to live, such as Frank Zane, Arnold, Franco Colombu, Lou Ferrigno and etc. They are in their 60's still, we don't know whether any of them will make it passed the age of 75 per se.

However, we can talk about those BB's who died in their 30's. Too bad their genetic compositions were not solid enough for handling all the AAS and HGH. Their otopsies revealed a causation between their drastic drug use and early death. There are some pretty dramatic deaths and the first that comes to my mind would be Andreas Münzer's sudden death due to dystrophic multiple-organ-failure at the age of 31, of course. Some of the specific autopsy findings of him were:

* An extremely muscular physique, with an almost complete absence of subcutaneous fat,

* Affecting the liver were numerous table-tennis-ball-sized tumors, typical for doping; half the liver consisted simply of a crumbly mass, similar to polystyrene (Styrofoam),

* Diminutive testes,

* Cardiac hypertrophy (Münzer's heart weighed 636g; a normal man's heart usually weighs 300–350g).

Münzer's electrolytes were also completely out of balance, and his potassium levels were extremely high. Traces of about twenty different drugs were found, along with acute toxicity (perhaps caused by a stimulant). He was an admirer of fellow Austrian bodybuilder Arnold Schwarzenegger and wanted to become just like him, this is what he got. What a great deal, right?

I wish the list started and ended with Münzer only. What about Momo Benaziza? The guy was 5'2' and his weight was 224 pounds at some point. Died at the age of 33. The list can go on. Again, I am not by any means suggesting that those who experiment with AAS will certainly die earlier than the time their genetic predispositions would have otherwise allowed them to live; however, when one stacks several compounds (especially orals) at extremely high doses for prolonged periods of time, then one simply increases the chances of a premature death.

[BigandStrong]

So basically any cycle you do you will keep SOME gains from that cycle as long as you have not reached your genetic limit?

Once you have reached your genetic limit, any gains you get from a cycle will be lost once you comeoff?

Bump