the amazement of tren

[THE-DET-OAK]

your not making any sense dec, there is only 1 way to control symptoms, and thats with treatment.

[THE-DET-OAK]

HRT doses range from 100mg/wk to well in excess of that depending on the subject.

Just tell me something...

If you have suggested a dose of 300mg/wk Test (high'ish HRT, low'ish cycle) and your HRT/TRT patients experience LOW SHBG more so than high SHBG, then why an earth suggest Masteron if it indeed (it does) lower it even more? Your post is in the context that, that is the primary reason you stated to use Masteron, not vascularity.

just because exogenous T will lower SHBG does not mean that lowering it more will not have some beneficail effects, like libido for 1.

when he goes from 750 to 300 it is going to take his SHBG alot longer to come down that his T. you argument is basically why lower SHBG when cycling, if you look around many, many bber's do it and like the effects.....................so again i will ask you why not???????????????????

more free test means more gains to me, and more wood.

[dec11]

your not making any sense dec, there is only 1 way to control symptoms, and thats with treatment.

what with more unnecessary AAS?
you're falling apart here rapidly

[THE-DET-OAK]

what with more unnecessary AAS?
you're falling apart here rapidly

ok then all wise one, I am running 130mg of tren EOD and 75mg prop EOD and im having libido issues, what should i do?????

[dec11]

ok then all wise one, I am running 130mg of tren EOD and 75mg prop EOD and im having libido issues, what should i do?????

buy a copy of gaytimes

[THE-DET-OAK]

just as i presumed..........................

[MBMETC]

ok then all wise one, I am running 130mg of tren EOD and 75mg prop EOD and im having libido issues, what should i do?????

^^ this, exactly why im moving my doses labido has been week on this cycle no matter if i run 100mgs prop ed or 50mgs ed.

[dec11]

^^ this, exactly why im moving my doses labido has been week on this cycle no matter if i run 100mgs prop ed or 50mgs ed.

you running any ancillaries?

[Swifto]

just because exogenous T will lower SHBG does not mean that lowering it more will not have some beneficail effects, like libido for 1.

when he goes from 750 to 300 it is going to take his SHBG alot longer to come down that his T. you argument is basically why lower SHBG when cycling, if you look around many, many bber's do it and like the effects.....................so again i will ask you why not???????????????????

more free test means more gains to me, and more wood.

Its clear how confused you are.

You've suggested a low dose of Testosterone , rather than a higher one, then suggest using Masteron to lower SHBG when you know low doses of HRT or testosterone DECREASE SHBG when normal subjects are given low HRT doses of testosterone. You dont even know what the f*ck your on about.

I threw in a red herring by the way, "In my experience HRT patients are subjected to increased SHBG levels...". Its total garbage and because you didnt pick me up on it (not once) I think your more of an idiot.

Are you finding that Google window you have open there hard to understand?

You claim you have HRT patients too. But its clear your understanding here is pretty basic and some of your logic(s) are seriously flawed.

Your claiming to be "252lbs" and at your largest "275lbs". How long have you been training? Got any pics up?

[MBMETC]

you running any ancillaries?

not experiancing any sides, but i did runa aromisin for 3 days at 12.5mg ed and i even tried prami for a couple of days. don't get it twisted everything works i get erections a couple of times a day but i kinda lose them as things progress and just really not wanting to bang everthing i see like on my last cycle.

[THE-DET-OAK]

now your just rambling swifto. red herring lol i didnt catch it lol-ive said numerous times im very aware that TRT fixes free t issues. if you take a look @ dr aziz from the A4M he has said many times that guys with low free T warrant TRT, even if they score 6-800 on TT. so your red herring was merely a fact that i skimmed your post. nice try though.

yes i suggested a low dose of T, because of androgen receptor competition. when cycling tren i find that @ 100mg EOD its hard to eat small and gain size. I find that when you get up in the 450-700mg range thats when the size really starts to come on. I assume this is because of feed efficiency.

the only thing you said to me in the post was..............."gotcha you didnt even notice i said trt increases SHBG" LMAO. seriously Swifto for the last time, it DOES not matter if injecting T lowers SHBG, BBer's have been takiing things like proviron for eons to lower SHBG, the effects are noticeable, so why not do it?

so your entire argument is based around the fact that since androgen therapy lowers SHBG that you should NEVER take some thing that does it. what does that even mean??????

you know what buddy, you got me, since i didnt catch your post about increase SHBG cause i thought we already agreed it lowers it, im a phony.

are you actually going to refute that taking masteron while injecting T would lower SHBG ???? are you trying to say that you would see no benefits from lowering SHBG even on cycle???????? then why do bber's even waste their time with proviron????????? let me guess you think its used for an AI right??????

no i have never posted pics. and i never said i got up to 275, i have gotten up to 265, if i said otherwise it was a typo.

you have not taught me anything, or given 1 single logical reason that masteron can not be effectively added to a test/tren cycle.

[THE-DET-OAK]

now swifto, i have answered all your questions in every post you directed towards me, how come you have shrugged all my questions towards you off?????..................................rubbish

[THE-DET-OAK]

.

and yes masteron will decrease SHBG even more, so what the hell is your point anyway??? your argument is not going anywhere, and now your getting mad. you say why add masteron, I say why not??

Like i said before, ususally on TRT it is the issue of not letting SHBG get too low............................................... ...........................I guess your just one of the many masteron hater's

EDIT: to imply that since its a "cycle" dose letro will not have the same tetor totter effect is just............well............silly

just because exogenous T will lower SHBG does not mean that lowering it more will not have some beneficail effects, like libido for 1.

when he goes from 750 to 300 it is going to take his SHBG alot longer to come down that his T. you argument is basically why lower SHBG when cycling, if you look around many, many bber's do it and like the effects.....................so again i will ask you why not???????????????????

I will await your reply rather than your "red herring" LMAO PIMP

[THE-DET-OAK]

why up your dose of T when you can get the same effect from adding a lil masteron ??????

[dec11]

not experiancing any sides, but i did runa aromisin for 3 days at 12.5mg ed and i even tried prami for a couple of days. don't get it twisted everything works i get erections a couple of times a day but i kinda lose them as things progress and just really not wanting to bang everthing i see like on my last cycle.

then why did you post weak libido?? that would most def be a side in my book. i wasnt trying to twist anything

[MBMETC]

then why did you post weak libido?? that would most def be a side in my book. i wasnt trying to twist anything

i was thinking more in terms of water or acne. ok heres the deal as of now on erse....no bloat that i see or feel, my skin is oilly, small pimples mostly on neck, no puffy nips or sesitivity.
tren sides, insomnia, sweating, weak cardio.

so you thinking give the aromisin another go at 12.5ed

[dec11]

i was thinking more in terms of water or acne. ok heres the deal as of now on erse....no bloat that i see or feel, my skin is oilly, small pimples mostly on neck, no puffy nips or sesitivity.
tren sides, insomnia, sweating, weak cardio.

so you thinking give the aromisin another go at 12.5ed

id go back on the aromasin for cert and see how it progresses, failing that id be taking the prami also incase its prog related, ive never used prami myself and not sure on dosages, im sure swifto will set you straight

i was able to control it with nolva on the same cycle, but it isnt ideal imo

[MBMETC]

ya i was thinking on trying the aromisin again i don't want to keep playing with the doses i think ill go back to 70mgs prop and keep the tren at75mgs ed i can deal with the tren sides and besides i love seeing all the viens rip through my skin when doing db curls..lol

[MACHINE5150]

this thread should be split in two... one about how great tren is and the other on the arguement of various AI's.. this thread has been completley hijacked

[MBMETC]

this thread should be split in two... one about how great tren is and the other on the arguement of various AI's.. this thread has been completley hijacked

at the end of the day we can all agree on one thing....tren is amazing

[marcus300]

now swifto, i have answered all your questions in every post you directed towards me, how come you have shrugged all my questions towards you off?????..................................rubbish

I think he asked how long you been training?

[Swifto]

now your just rambling swifto. red herring lol i didnt catch it lol-ive said numerous times im very aware that TRT fixes free t issues. if you take a look @ dr aziz from the A4M he has said many times that guys with low free T warrant TRT, even if they score 6-800 on TT. so your red herring was merely a fact that i skimmed your post. nice try though.

yes i suggested a low dose of T, because of androgen receptor competition. when cycling tren i find that @ 100mg EOD its hard to eat small and gain size. I find that when you get up in the 450-700mg range thats when the size really starts to come on. I assume this is because of feed efficiency.

the only thing you said to me in the post was..............."gotcha you didnt even notice i said trt increases SHBG" LMAO. seriously Swifto for the last time, it DOES not matter if injecting T lowers SHBG, BBer's have been takiing things like proviron for eons to lower SHBG, the effects are noticeable, so why not do it?

so your entire argument is based around the fact that since androgen therapy lowers SHBG that you should NEVER take some thing that does it. what does that even mean??????

you know what buddy, you got me, since i didnt catch your post about increase SHBG cause i thought we already agreed it lowers it, im a phony.

are you actually going to refute that taking masteron while injecting T would lower SHBG ???? are you trying to say that you would see no benefits from lowering SHBG even on cycle???????? then why do bber's even waste their time with proviron????????? let me guess you think its used for an AI right??????

no i have never posted pics. and i never said i got up to 275, i have gotten up to 265, if i said otherwise it was a typo.

you have not taught me anything, or given 1 single logical reason that masteron can not be effectively added to a test/tren cycle.

I never said Masteron "does not lower SHBG" what are you on about?

If those on HRT mostly experience lowered SHBG and there is a dose respondent decrease in healthy men given exogenous testosterone , why suggest it to lower SHBG further. your talking about a marginal difference.

If you follow Scally and Swale they both state SHBG is of little concern to bodybuilders.

And for those who think there getting more of an increase from lowering SHBG on cycle using things like Masteron, Winstrol , Proviron, are most getting androgenic effects and/or anabolic effects from the compounds.

You know AI's lower SHBG, right?

You should go through my posts as I clearly state proviron has very weak anti-estrogen properties. I in fact got gyno and acne when I used it on cycle.


You remind me of that prick Need2 that copy and pastes everything over at EF.

[Swifto]

I think he asked how long you been training?

And cycling...

[dec11]

at the end of the day we can all agree on one thing....tren is amazing

sure is, ive just ordered 30ml of it, whoop!!!!

[Markosterone]

love the strenght and muscle gains on tren , makes good quality gains. no other compound can compare.

the cough is a little oil getting in the blood stream, probably passed a vein on the way in.

[kawizx10]

just when i think i get shit all figured out i keep reading and re-thinking.....

Ok... Shouldnt test be run at a high dose than Tren ?
Or
Why would you run the Tren higher dose than Test ?

[dec11]

just when i think i get shit all figured out i keep reading and re-thinking.....

Ok... Shouldnt test be run at a high dose than Tren ?
Or
Why would you run the Tren higher dose than Test ?

as long as you've baseline or above synthetic test in your system you should be fine

[kawizx10]

a few of the boys that i train with and compare cycles and pros & cons seem to have libido issues running Test at a lower dose than Tren .
Knock on wood... i still get wood running test higer......

but i am itching to start already.... there is skirt all over the place today.....

[dec11]

a few of the boys that i train with and compare cycles and pros & cons seem to have libido issues running Test at a lower dose than Tren.
Knock on wood... i still get wood running test higer......

but i am itching to start already.... there is skirt all over the place today.....

that could be down to estro or prog probs

[PowerliftWill]

DONT **** WITH LETRO....thought it dried me out today, a tiny bit and then decreases my strength like shit today at the gym. Done with it....what a harsh compound. granted I didn't eat very much yesterday or this morning, but it shouldnt be that drastic. Just going to lower my test and keep my tren high and eat like ****ing crazy.

[THE-DET-OAK]

I never said Masteron "does not lower SHBG" what are you on about?

now your going in circles, first you argue not to add masteron cause SHBG is lowered by androgen therapy, yet you admit it would lower it more. I just dont get it.

If those on HRT mostly experience lowered SHBG and there is a dose respondent decrease in healthy men given exogenous testosterone, why suggest it to lower SHBG further. your talking about a marginal difference.

If you dont think there is a substantial difference in libido when adding masteron to a test tren cycle then you have never done it. there is no denying it increases libido and muscle hardness even at small doses of 100mg EOD. this is dues to a number of reasons but 1 is for sure lowered SHBG.

If you follow Scally and Swale they both state SHBG is of little concern to bodybuilders.

I do not follow swale, and its obvious you do not follow Scally, cause your PCT protocol is as outdated as swale's

And for those who think there getting more of an increase from lowering SHBG on cycle using things like Masteron, Winstrol, Proviron, are most getting androgenic effects and/or anabolic effects from the compounds.

another contradiction from you, you tell someone not do add masteron, then admit it does have effects.

You know AI's lower SHBG, right?

yes although aromasin is by far the most effective at this.

and once again you did not answer any of my questions, mainly what do you think will happen to the OP's free T when he reduces his dose????

I have not copy/pasted anything in this thread. you have started this big debate and after all of it you agree'd with me, thayt it will have effect and will lower SHBG, the only difference is you think it should not be added because of your "opinion" which at this point i have no respect for, i handled this thread as best I could and all you did was find ways to try and put me down personally, its sad.

the majority of guys I know, will tell you that test/tren/mast is the best cycle they have ever done, including myself.

[THE-DET-OAK]

DONT **** WITH LETRO....thought it dried me out today, a tiny bit and then decreases my strength like shit today at the gym. Done with it....what a harsh compound. granted I didn't eat very much yesterday or this morning, but it shouldnt be that drastic. Just going to lower my test and keep my tren high and eat like ****ing crazy.

how much did you take? just yesterday you said you were retaining too much water, letro could not possibly work that fast.

[THE-DET-OAK]

I think he asked how long you been training?

3 years, at least knowing what im doing. in my younger days when playing sports i thought i knew how to lift.

[marcus300]

THE-DET-OAK

I appreciate all you help around here but can you tell our members what cycling experience you have and also how long you have been training please?

[dec11]

3 years, at least knowing what im doing. in my younger days when playing sports i thought i knew how to lift.

was nice knowing ya lmfao

[THE-DET-OAK]

deca -you can say whatever you want about my training experience, i guess some guys pick it up faster than others, if thats you in your pic you would look rather small next to me. what are you a whopping 190lbs?????

[THE-DET-OAK]

i have cycled
test e
tren
mast
prop
suspension
sust
drol
tbol
deca NPP
dbol -maybe im forgetting some.

[THE-DET-OAK]

i guess since you have no logical reason to argue with my advice you are now going to try and attack other aspects.

[marcus300]

A lot of our members do get curious when a new member joins and starts sprouting advice, a lot of our members will challenge you about how long have you been training and also your steroid experience. Please don't get discouraged with this but this happens a lot seeing that we are the biggest steroid forum on the net we do seem to attract many parrots who have an odd desire to post other peoples advice, strange but true.

To me you seem to be fitting well into the new parrot member, but please if I am wrong I apologise but let me explain why I am thinking this way. I would first like to take you to your first thread on another site in 2009 were you state and I quote " I have been lifting for a year now"

THE-DET-OAK
04-02-2009

I am 29yrs 6'2 220.8lbs 20% bodyfat. I have been lifting for a year now. I having been thinking long and hard for three months and have decided to do my first cycle. I have a diet in place. It is what I should be eating just not always when I should be eating it because of work and I am single dad, it is sometimes hard to get all food prep done to take to work with me. I work out with my roomate who has been into building for 4 years and we came up with a routine that seems to be working well for me. The majority of my bodyfat is around my waist it has been that way since I was seven. Even football for 4 years in high school didn't take that away. So this is what I have came up with:
1-10 test e(amps) 500mgs/week-shot once a week
12-15nolvadex pct 40/40/20/20

I am worried about gyno cause of my bodyfat. So what I need to know is about the signs of it-and in detail because I read about the itchy nips and the swelling but will i know? Is it real Itchy? Is the hard palet under nips easy to notice or do i have to pay really close attention? Are there any other signs? If i do notice it can i just use the nolva-to block? Do i need to get some adex to reduce the level of estrogen if this occurs? or can i take nolva until signs subside?

Thanks for your input it will be much appreciated.

You also stated on this thread on this board that, and I quote " I have also worked with many, many patients on TRT" this indicates to our members your working with trt patients ie Doctor of some kind and it doesn't mean your a receptionist at a HRT clinic, I quote -

I agree that aromasin is the best AI to use. even @ 25mg ED studies have shown, on men, to keep E2 within range. Although .25mg ED is too much of letro is too much. .625mg E3D works fine for most, I have also worked with many, many patients on TRT and this dose work just fine, even with bloodwork to prove it.

Yet 12 months ago on your other board you started this thread " what are the downsides to TRT" and I quote " beside the not having kids part, what are the downsides?"

03-16-2010
THE-DET-OAK
Besides the having kids part, what are the downsides? there has to be some negatives-but i cant seem to find them.

If your working with TRT patients like you said surely you would know the downsides, also you would know what you asked in this thread

08-30-2010
THE-DET-OAK
Masteron - how much should I run?

so im on prop @ 150 EOD. m gonna start some halotestin in a couple days.

how much mast prop should i run? 100mg EOD?

im not worried about getting hard from it, i want to use it for its SHBG effects

I guess now you know why I am thinking your just another parrot with zero experience or knowledge,and before you start saying that this person isn't you but as the same screen name you did state on a thread on this forum and I quote

THE-DET-OAK
I have never been banned form any forum ever. I post mostly on ology and am in good standing. Im a mod on another board, and frequent a few others, nice try though. and please point out my bad...

Oh and you also said you did you first steroid cycle with 20% bf which fits perfectly into your stats on the first quote who happens to have the same screen name and the same board you said you was from!! you also started your 2nd cycle on 11/15 as explained in your thread and I quote -

12-17-2009
THE-DET-OAK
will I get bigger on this cycle?
so far im having a great cycle-i started on 11/15. I have gained 21 lbs already-and strenght and stamina are through the roof. i started at 219-now im 240. my bf% is prob down a lil-and im feeling lean and mean.

As of Monday I will have one more week of the DBol. i have stopped the prop. My question is-will i still gain by adding the NPP? i wouldn't mind going all the way to 250 on this cycle. ive just heard soooo many people say you can only gain so much on 1 cycle-so im starting to wonder if i will be waisting the NPP since I have already gained 21 LBS.

That's were I took your threads and posts from the board you mentioned above. I could post more of your threads what you have started (which I am sure you wouldn't like) which would show you asking very simple steroid questions and asking for basic information, thus my thinking your just a parrot with a couple of cycles under your belt with around 3 yrs worth of training who is on TRT due to your idiotic cycling.

3yrs training, 2 cycles = parrot

I think I should ignore your post from now on otherwise I wouldnt be able to hold back.....best of luck to you lol

[dec11]

deca-you can say whatever you want about my training experience, i guess some guys pick it up faster than others, if thats you in your pic you would look rather small next to me. what are you a whopping 190lbs?????

18yrs powerlifting, N. Ireland champion many times in 3 different body weights 75kg -100kg class. British Bronze medallist, represented NI 5 times in international competition. all natural, i might add

and your credentials? oh, none. epic fail lol

talk about being shit on, you donkey lol